Fixing the Bears... Players vs Coaching

[JoeyTourettes]

Without Bias, without generalizations, without reading into anything you believe I might be trying to say. Answer some questions.

Was the Phil Emery a good GM? Yes or No. Why?

Was Marc Trestman a good Head Coach? Yes or No? Why?

Does coaching make the player or players make the coach? Which is more important?

When searching for a new Head Coach is it possible that he get's more out of the talent, regardless how lacking you may believe it is?

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

1. Good? Very Bear good. Whatever that means. 2. No, no he was not. 3. Talent 85% Coaching 25% Making the refs think were GB 16%. 4. Yes

 

[JoeyTourettes]

lol- Noon- check your percentages there. Lol. 126%? I take it you think talent means more then coaching.

 

[wood20ks]

Without Bias, without generalizations, without reading into anything you believe I might be trying to say. Answer some questions.

Was the Phil Emery a good GM? Yes or No. Why?

Was Marc Trestman a good Head Coach? Yes or No? Why?

Does coaching make the player or players make the coach? Which is more important?

When searching for a new Head Coach is it possible that he get's more out of the talent, regardless how lacking you may believe it is?

Emery......he was ok.
Trestman.........no way in hell.........I always questioned his time outs.Very piss poor.Other than that,is it the oc that called the plays and trestman gave the go ahead or how did it work?
Who was responsible for Cutler,Trestman?......I mean he was a qb qhisperer so to speak.lmao

caoaching make the player or vice-versa?.............Depends,did coaching make Luck?Manning?Brady?Rodgers?.....no not at all,either you have it or you don`t.
now maybe there are players in later rounds that could use some coaching,but these top notch players come with a gift to play.Theres no teaching that.

 

[beardown07]

Emery- Not particularly. Aggressive. Not afraid to pull the trigger. This also works against him on the financial side of the team.

Trestman-No. Maybe an OC, but has no control over players, is horrible at adjusting to teams adjustments, and his game-management is suspect, at best.

Coaches make all players. Raw talent won't get you past Pop Warner.

 

[beardown07]

Emery......he was ok.
Trestman.........no way in hell.........I always questioned his time outs.Very piss poor.Other than that,is it the oc that called the plays and trestman gave the go ahead or how did it work?
Who was responsible for Cutler,Trestman?......I mean he was a qb qhisperer so to speak.lmao

caoaching make the player or vice-versa?.............Depends,did coaching make Luck?Manning?Brady?Rodgers?.....no not at all,either you have it or you don`t.
now maybe there are players in later rounds that could use some coaching,but these top notch players come with a gift to play.Theres no teaching that.

I could be wrong, but I think Trest called the plays?

Not even sure wtf Kromer actually did?

 

[beardown07]

Emery......he was ok.
Trestman.........no way in hell.........I always questioned his time outs.Very piss poor.Other than that,is it the oc that called the plays and trestman gave the go ahead or how did it work?
Who was responsible for Cutler,Trestman?......I mean he was a qb qhisperer so to speak.lmao

caoaching make the player or vice-versa?.............Depends,did coaching make Luck?Manning?Brady?Rodgers?.....no not at all,either you have it or you don`t.
now maybe there are players in later rounds that could use some coaching,but these top notch players come with a gift to play.Theres no teaching that.

Yes!! A resounding yes. With no coaching, none of them would've gotten to where they have.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

lol- Noon- check your percentages there. Lol. 126%? I take it you think talent means more then coaching.

Yes. I read a article once that showed the difference coaching made at this level and how the best coach to the worst coach made a whopping 5% difference. Wish I could find that story but it was 2 or 3 years ago.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Was the Phil Emery a good GM? Yes or No. Why?
No. With wild spending and not enough good draft picks- plus the picking of Trestman over Arians. The more we saw from him the more I felt he was very much a "I'm right, and it's my way" kinda guy. Didn't fire Kromer when given a chance- Hired Tucker/Decamillis before HC, Shea McClellin.

Was Marc Trestman a good Head Coach? Yes or No? Why?
No. Has no control over his team personalities, Let Briggs open BBQ joint, arranged locker room against type, Random Captains, bubble screens, running game disappeared, didn't fire Kromer, Tried to save job by benching Jay.

Does coaching make the player or players make the coach? Which is more important?
70% coaching 30% talent: I always go back to this- Does 6th round pick Tom Brady become "Tom Brady" without Belicheck? Or if he's on another team?

When searching for a new Head Coach is it possible that he get's more out of the talent, regardless how lacking you may believe it is?
Yes... This Bears team is prime example: Many thought this was a playoff caliber team at the start, we kept hearing about how much talent this team had... If that's true- then doesn't it stand to reason that it was Coaching that derailed that talent into a 5-11 team? Could better coaching reclaim the talent that just 6 months ago was thought to be good enough to win 10 games?

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Yes!! A resounding yes. With no coaching, none of them would've gotten to where they have.

I don't think he means it that way.

 

[wood20ks]

Emery- Not particularly. Aggressive. Not afraid to pull the trigger. This also works against him on the financial side of the team.

Trestman-No. Maybe an OC, but has no control over players, is horrible at adjusting to teams adjustments, and his game-management is suspect, at best.

Coaches make all players. Raw talent won't get you past Pop Warner.

I don`t believe it...........

if its coaching why is it hardly ever you see a 4th picks on up end up being top notch players.
And why is it some top draft choices never excel in the NFL then.
If its coaching that teaches talent,then why is it some of these top draft choices that can`t cut it with one team can`t cut it with another then?
Is it cause their coaches suck too,or is it cause the players suck?

Shea would be Shea no matter where he goes.
Rashan Salaam would Rashaan where ever he went.
Chris Williams.........And so on.

so why couldn`t they go to another team and have a real coach teach them talent?

You can not teach talent.........either you have it or you don`t.

 

[beardown07]

Ok, once at the NFL level, it is prolly a good combination of both. The game is too complicated to think that raw talent alone will suffice tho, and if you go by the letter of the law with regards to how the question was posed, then I stand by my comment as no player, regardless of skill or athleticism even makes it to the NFL without coaching.

 

[wood20ks]

I don't think he means it that way.

Actualy I think I do.......

I mean look at some of the talent at wr Brady has had over the years at rb and wr............other than Gronk right now,would you want any of his recievers.........Hell no!

Cam needs more help where hes at.....I think he`d a stud qb if he had more help at wr and o-line........Damn I`d love to have him here.



You have to have some type of coaching.But without the talent,you are going no where...........

 

[NCChiFan]

Without Bias, without generalizations, without reading into anything you believe I might be trying to say. Answer some questions. First, we all have "Bias".

Was the Phil Emery a good GM? Yes or No. Why? Great drafter, bad at picking coaches. His downfall was picking coaches. His F/A pick ups were fine. Hits and misses but that's normal.

Was Marc Trestman a good Head Coach? Yes or No? Why? No, he lost the locker room.

Does coaching make the player or players make the coach? Which is more important? It is both, I think System is important, particularly when it is made to fit the players. Players have to learn that system so the Coaches are very important, and well rookies and young players need to learn. But, players have got to have talent. I see question muddled and hard for me to answer.

When searching for a new Head Coach is it possible that he get's more out of the talent, regardless how lacking you may believe it is? See my post above, it is about making the system work for the talent you have (See Belicheck and his TE offense) rather than trying something you don't have the players for, like trying to run a 3-4 when you have 4-3 players.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Does coaching make the player or players make the coach? Which is more important? It is both, I think System is important, particularly when it is made to fit the players. Players have to learn that system so the Coaches are very important, and well rookies and young players need to learn. But, players have got to have talent. I see question muddled and hard for me to answer.

When searching for a new Head Coach is it possible that he get's more out of the talent, regardless how lacking you may believe it is? See my post above, it is about making the system work for the talent you have (See Belicheck and his TE offense) rather than trying something you don't have the players for, like trying to run a 3-4 when you have 4-3 players.

NCChi- Agree with what you're saying, I do think system and scheme and coaching to your talent will make you a more successful team.

I guess if it's "talent" alone then why do so many first round picks and high Talent guys fail so often?

The Bears kept saying all year that it's not the scheme it's execution of the scheme- while there may be some truth to that... but doesn't that tell you that they didn't COACH the scheme well enough to perform it?
Someone mentioned that the difference in talent level among teams is 5%. Then what causes the divide among teams....how does New England stay good for so long- Coaching.

Some of the players we have, could be better with better coaching.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Someone mentioned that the difference in talent level among teams is 5%. Then what causes the divide among teams....how does New England stay good for so long- Coaching.

NE stays good because they have a elite QB. Does not matter who the coach is really. BB had a losing record before Brady came out of nowhere. Is he a better coach now? When Brady is gone the league will be shocked how average BB becomes again. But I won't be. BB is nothing special.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Someone mentioned that the difference in talent level among teams is 5%. Then what causes the divide among teams....how does New England stay good for so long- Coaching.

NE stays good because they have a elite QB. Does not matter who the coach is really. BB had a losing record before Brady came out of nowhere. Is he a better coach now? When Brady is gone the league will be shocked how average BB becomes again. But I won't be. BB is nothing special.

nice try Noon. But I am not biting this obvious sucker move. Nope, not gonna do it. Not even going to mention Drew Brees. Nope.

 

[wood20ks]

Someone mentioned that the difference in talent level among teams is 5%. Then what causes the divide among teams....how does New England stay good for so long- Coaching.

NE stays good because they have a elite QB. Does not matter who the coach is really. BB had a losing record before Brady came out of nowhere. Is he a better coach now? When Brady is gone the league will be shocked how average BB becomes again. But I won't be. BB is nothing special.

sure won`t..........

well said Noon.

I wonder how ell NE,Indy,GB,Denver and a few other teams would perform if they didn`t have their respective qb starting.

I ask again,could Cutler take any of those final 4 teams to the final four or even better yet the SB.

Like I said earlier,only Seattle.Cause the defense they have,an average qb could actually win that teamDilfer comes to mind with the Ravens D.

And to tell you the truth Noon,i don`t think any coach is as great as they are advertised.
once Parcells left the giants and the team he had there,he was just an average coach........
Mike Ditka...........just average after leaving Chicago...
How about Holmgren when he left Favre?

You better have great talented players to be able to win in successfully in the NFL.

75% talent to 25% coaching.

 

[wood20ks]

Oh....And more thing.


Where would the Pack be without Rodgers?


Would Mccarthy work that coaching magic?...................Nah I didn`t think so.

 

[leomaz]

Oh....And more thing.


Where would the Pack be without Rodgers?


Would Mccarthy work that coaching magic?...................Nah I didn`t think so.

Yet you cannot prove it