Extension Updates for Cain/Bum

[MarcoPolo]

Or even better, how much did I pay in 1999 (just one year earlier) for a family pavilion ticket at the 'stick? That's comparable to today's "arcade seating" at TheBell, as they also overhung RF. (Of course, it was also a huge whirlwind of dust and hot dog wrappers ... )

 

[tzill]

I had said : I get the impression from Timmy's comments over the past 2 years that he will go to the highest bidder, AND demand a 7-year contract (if not more)



The comments that he makes every time contract discussions come up - he talks about how "he is more comfortable with short term contracts" when asked why his contract is for 2 years. That happened last contract and this current one. My take is that he is 150% sure of himself and that he thinks that is the way to get the highest value contract - short term until FA. The last piece was when it was reported a few months ago (before the current contract) that he was looking for an 8-year deal (2 years of arb + 6 years of FA). I'm sure that if the Giants offered 8 years and $200M, he would have dropped his "preference" for short term contracts faster than Paris Hilton dropping her panties.

I see what you're saying and I guess it goes without argument that this is YOUR take (which you disclaimed). I'm not sure that Timmy is looking for the max money. Maybe he is; maybe he isn't. My point is there is no direct evidence either way; your impression is yours and you may be right. I'd prefer to keep an open mind and see what occurs. Less chance of confirmation bias that way.

 

[tzill]

From MLBTR:

The Latest On Matt Cain & Tim Lincecum: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

I think something gets done pretty soon.

 

[the_broom]

Or even better, how much did I pay in 1999 (just one year earlier) for a family pavilion ticket at the 'stick? That's comparable to today's "arcade seating" at TheBell, as they also overhung RF. (Of course, it was also a huge whirlwind of dust and hot dog wrappers ... )

Yeah...I know what you are saying...but I guess my point is I want to see ownership look for less a return on their investment and more towards making this team better...

And yes, I know that it's a business but I want this to be these guys hobby...ya know?

 

[MarcoPolo]

OK, the answers are :

I paid SIX DOLLARS for an adult ticket in the family pavilion in 1999. (Compare that to recent bleacher tickets.)
I paid $23 for lower box behind home plate in 2000.

So all fans (who go to games) pay for the team's decisions.

 

[mistgl]

Yeah...I know what you are saying...but I guess my point is I want to see ownership look for less a return on their investment and more towards making this team better...

And yes, I know that it's a business but I want this to be these guys hobby...ya know?

Never gonna happen.

The hated ones in blue are down for now, but once they get a new owner settled in, that team is in for a huge TV deal. One that pays for their payroll and then some.

We need to be smart with how money is spent, we're NEVER going to have a Phillie like payroll with this current ownership group.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Well, the Giants' ownership group is a significant owner of the cable channel broadcasting most of the Giants' games - they are adding money to pockets even though the TV deal payment to the Giants' TEAM might be less than other teams are getting.

 

[CameronFrye]

OK, the answers are :

I paid SIX DOLLARS for an adult ticket in the family pavilion in 1999. (Compare that to recent bleacher tickets.)
I paid $23 for lower box behind home plate in 2000.

So all fans (who go to games) pay for the team's decisions.

I used to pay $2.50 to sit out beyond the clear fence at The Stick. But then again, I am a wee bit older than you.

But I agree with your statement. Fans do pay for the team's decisions. The Season Ticket holders pay the most.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Just remember that an inevitable ingredient in this stew here is the fact that California has the highest state income taxes in the country - over 10% for those in the highest brackets (eg, Timmeh and Cain). By contrast, there are no state income taxes in Florida or Texas.

Over the life of a $100mm contract, that is $10mm.

Just saying.

 

[msgkings322]

Just remember that an inevitable ingredient in this stew here is the fact that California has the highest state income taxes in the country - over 10% for those in the highest brackets (eg, Timmeh and Cain). By contrast, there are no state income taxes in Florida or Texas.

Over the life of a $100mm contract, that is $10mm.

Just saying.

That's a small factor but it's not nothing.

But you forgot to include the state of Washington, which might specifically affect Timmy's choices.

Toronto (and formerly Montreal) has the tax problem even worse.

 

[Mays-Fan]

That's a small factor but it's not nothing.

But you forgot to include the state of Washington, which might specifically affect Timmy's choices.

Toronto (and formerly Montreal) has the tax problem even worse.

Agreed on all counts. Though, I didn't say it would be a deciding factor, and there are other puts and takes.

But you can be sure they are aware of it.

 

[calsnowskier]

Just remember that an inevitable ingredient in this stew here is the fact that California has the highest state income taxes in the country - over 10% for those in the highest brackets (eg, Timmeh and Cain). By contrast, there are no state income taxes in Florida or Texas.

Over the life of a $100mm contract, that is $10mm.

Just saying.

Your point is 100% valid, although, not 100% accurate.

Players pay state income taxes on a proportional basis. If a player for the Giants makes 10M and were to play 81 games in Ca and 81 in Texas, he would only pay Ca 500k, not 1M. State taxes are paid based on where the game is played, not what team the player plays for.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Your point is 100% valid, although, not 100% accurate.

Players pay state income taxes on a proportional basis. If a player for the Giants makes 10M and were to play 81 games in Ca and 81 in Texas, he would only pay Ca 500k, not 1M. State taxes are paid based on where the game is played, not what team the player plays for.

Yup. Two players on two NL West teams would pay "about" the same taxes for away games (assuming a more or less balanced schedule shared by teams in the same division), but half of the time (home games) they would owe taxes to the state where their team is located (a huge difference in taxes between between Seattle and L.A., San Diego or San Francisco).

The tax situation is one of the big reasons that players insist on "bonus" money (say, getting a $4M signing bonus where the first year's salary is $4M less than all the other years). Bonuses are often paid well outside of the main season and thus the state where the player maintains his family, (off-season) residence is the one that would receive the taxes due on bonuses.

 

[tzill]

Its either Cain or Lincecum. They can't sign both. My choice; Lincecum.

 

[calsnowskier]

yup.

Dealt with appropriately.

 

[tzill]

yup.

Dealt with appropriately.

Wow...a new record for FUD...3 posts and banned.

 

[calsnowskier]

Wow...a new record for FUD...3 posts and banned.

LOL

Nope.

 

[tzill]

Something to consider (taken from MCC comments) Pitchers who have signed for nine figures:

CC Sabathia 7 years / 161 million

Barry Zito 7 years / 126 million

Johan Santana 6 years / 137 million

Cliff Lee 5 years / 120 million

Mike Hampton 8 years / 121 million

Kevin Brown 7 years / 105 million



Clear successes

CC Sabathia

Clear Failures

Mike Hampton
Kevin Brown
Barry Zito

Started OK, now very bad, unlikely to be worth it

Johan Santana


To be determined


Cliff Lee

 

[Mays-Fan]

Something to consider (taken from MCC comments) Pitchers who have signed for nine figures:

CC Sabathia 7 years / 161 million

Barry Zito 7 years / 126 million

Johan Santana 6 years / 137 million

Cliff Lee 5 years / 120 million

Mike Hampton 8 years / 121 million

Kevin Brown 7 years / 105 million



Clear successes

CC Sabathia

Clear Failures

Mike Hampton
Kevin Brown
Barry Zito

Started OK, now very bad, unlikely to be worth it

Johan Santana


To be determined


Cliff Lee

Most definitely something to consider. As a GM or an owner, you have to ask yourself, who between Tim and Cain is going to be effective in the last year(s) of the contract?

Certainly I don't have a crystal ball. If I did, I would be the one making these decisions. 8^)

But being the betting man that I am, my money would be on Cain. He is a big guy, great mechanics, built to pitch another 1000-1200 innings over the next 5-6 years.

I hate to say it, but Tim's mechanics scare me into thinking he won't last the 7-8 years he seems to want.

Maybe building a trade around Timmy for a guy like Cano or 2-3 established players is not a bad idea.

 

[mistgl]

Most definitely something to consider. As a GM or an owner, you have to ask yourself, who between Tim and Cain is going to be effective in the last year(s) of the contract?

Certainly I don't have a crystal ball. If I did, I would be the one making these decisions. 8^)

But being the betting man that I am, my money would be on Cain. He is a big guy, great mechanics, built to pitch another 1000-1200 innings over the next 5-6 years.

I hate to say it, but Tim's mechanics scare me into thinking he won't last the 7-8 years he seems to want.

Maybe building a trade around Timmy for a guy like Cano or 2-3 established players is not a bad idea.

Problem with getting established stars like Cano is they have little to no time left on their contracts. Hence why their original club was OK in trading them.

That's why most clubs go with the prospect package - Risky as hell, but if even one pans out you're set with a cost controlled player vs a 1-2 year rental. Pretty valuable in today's day and age of mega contracts.

Even hacks like Barmes are getting 10mil+ deals