Extension Updates for Cain/Bum

[tzill]

Depends on what you're comparing. Wilson is certainly comparable as a player. We know Wilson walked away from 6/99. So it appears that Wilson highly values playing near his home. And that's where Cain and Wilson may not be comparable, i.e. their marginal rate of substitution of money vs. playing for a particular team. Had you made that point originally, I'd have agreed.

That was my original point; sorry I didn't make it more clearly.

 

[tzill]

BTW, in all my comments WRT to Cain's contract, I was assuming the Giants tear up the current contract. So the new contract starts now, rather than being tacked on to the end of the current one.

Well, suffice it to say that's not likely. The Giants will most likely extend Cain and not redo his current contract.

 

[tzill]

Since Cain keeps referring to 'market value' that seems to be the metric he's using. The question is 'What does HE mean by market value?' If I'm Matt Cain I look at Timmy's current offer from the club and settle in on the 2nd year. 21.5M. Do I think he's as good as Timmy? Not quite there but awful damn close. In the long run he may prove more valuable and durable as well. I have to think that Cain feels he is worth the investment. I think he'd take 4/82M or 5/100-110M ... I think he's using Timmy contract as his metric

I think your numbers are in the ballpark, but the reasoning is a bit off. That is, Timmy isn't a great comparable for Matt. Simply put, Timmy is better and his contract is for his final two arb years. Matt doesn't have the hardware and is negotiating his FA years. Apples and teddy bears.

 

[gp956]

Shulman on sportsphone..... thinks Cain will get 5/100+ from the Giants, with emphasis on the +. Will get "approaching CC Sabathia money" if he hits the open market.

 

[tzill]

Shulman on sportsphone..... thinks Cain will get 5/100+ from the Giants, with emphasis on the +. Will get "approaching CC Sabathia money" if he hits the open market.

That was my take on it. I'm thinking 5/110 if they get a deal done this month.

 

[mistgl]

That was my take on it. I'm thinking 5/110 if they get a deal done this month.

Worth it, imo.

Lincecum leaving would suck, but Cain and Bum will keep the top of the rotation strong. That, and it's easier to find 3-5 caliber starters than it is legitimate 1-2.

 

[gp956]

Worth it, imo.

Lincecum leaving would suck, but Cain and Bum will keep the top of the rotation strong. That, and it's easier to find 3-5 caliber starters than it is legitimate 1-2.

You'd take Cain over Timmy?

 

[MarcoPolo]

You'd take Cain over Timmy?

1) Yes.

2) I get the impression from Timmy's comments over the past 2 years that he will go to the highest bidder, AND demand a 7-year contract (if not more)

3) Cain's contract is over after this season, Timmy has one more year. Tackle the first problem before the second.

 

[tzill]

1) Yes.

2) I get the impression from Timmy's comments over the past 2 years that he will go to the highest bidder, AND demand a 7-year contract (if not more)

3) Cain's contract is over after this season, Timmy has one more year. Tackle the first problem before the second.

Which comments are those?

 

[gp956]

1) Yes.

2) I get the impression from Timmy's comments over the past 2 years that he will go to the highest bidder, AND demand a 7-year contract (if not more)

3) Cain's contract is over after this season, Timmy has one more year. Tackle the first problem before the second.

Mistgl implied that keeping Cain means losing Timmy - so your point three is irrelevant. I guess your point here is that Cain is "only" asking for market value, while Timmy will ask for highest bidder.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Mistgl implied that keeping Cain means losing Timmy - so your point three is irrelevant. I guess your point here is that Cain is "only" asking for market value, while Timmy will ask for highest bidder.

Isn't "highest bidder" the very definition of "market value"? That's what a "market" is for.

 

[Heathbar012]

Isn't "highest bidder" the very definition of "market value"? That's what a "market" is for.

Shhh. The Hoop is socialist.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Shhh. The Hoop is socialist.

Gotcha. So that means "market value" is what Central Command says it ought to be? Is that how they teach it in school nowadays?

:boxing:

 

[Heathbar012]

Gotcha. So that means "market value" is what Central Command says it ought to be? Is that how they teach it in school nowadays?

:boxing:

In SportsHoopla We Trust

 

[gp956]

Isn't "highest bidder" the very definition of "market value"? That's what a "market" is for.

Serious answer? The path one takes to a transaction my effect the price at which that transaction takes place, but, theoretically, the underlying market value does not change.

 

[mistgl]

Mistgl implied that keeping Cain means losing Timmy - so your point three is irrelevant. I guess your point here is that Cain is "only" asking for market value, while Timmy will ask for highest bidder.

1. Yes

2. I don't think signing Cains means no Tim, but personally, I'd prefer we ink Cain and spend Tims fortune on something else. Like a bat, or two, and some back of the rotation arms.

I'd rather keep one to solidify our rotation, and have money to surround our core of hitters with actual hitters.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Mistgl implied that keeping Cain means losing Timmy - so your point three is irrelevant. I guess your point here is that Cain is "only" asking for market value, while Timmy will ask for highest bidder.

I don't believe that I have to accept his implication. My point 3 was "deal with the immediate first, and worry about Timmy later." A corollary is "if you lose Cain, you pretty much HAVE to pony up ridiculous amounts for Timmy". If Matt is signed it MAY be a point for Timmy to convince him to stay here, and if Timmy just wants the most amount of money, at least keeping one of the aces is a good thing.

 

[the_broom]

1. Yes

2. I don't think signing Cains means no Tim, but personally, I'd prefer we ink Cain and spend Tims fortune on something else. Like a bat, or two, and some back of the rotation arms.

I'd rather keep one to solidify our rotation, and have money to surround our core of hitters with actual hitters.

Since I'm a fan...and it's not my money...I want to see Giants ownership start realllllly increasing the budget. I want Cain...I want Tim...and I want them to go out and get some hitting!

Now...once I stop drinking I'll know this isn't going to happen...

 

[MarcoPolo]

I had said : I get the impression from Timmy's comments over the past 2 years that he will go to the highest bidder, AND demand a 7-year contract (if not more)

Which comments are those?

The comments that he makes every time contract discussions come up - he talks about how "he is more comfortable with short term contracts" when asked why his contract is for 2 years. That happened last contract and this current one. My take is that he is 150% sure of himself and that he thinks that is the way to get the highest value contract - short term until FA. The last piece was when it was reported a few months ago (before the current contract) that he was looking for an 8-year deal (2 years of arb + 6 years of FA). I'm sure that if the Giants offered 8 years and $200M, he would have dropped his "preference" for short term contracts faster than Paris Hilton dropping her panties.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Since I'm a fan...and it's not my money...

But it IS your money. Unless you don't go to games, buy hotdogs or drink beer while there, or buy merchandise. Otherwise it IS your money. I have a huge stack of tickets from the past 20 years of Giants games. Guess what my lower box ticket cost in 2000? This is a lower box, section 116, behind home plate (but not "Field club").

Guess how much. But it really IS your money.