Eagles realease Mathis

[eaglesnut]

Stupidity is assuming that a guy with a ton more info than you have and has risen to the top of his profession has done something stupid just because based on what you know it looks that way. I'm doubling down on the smart guy in the room with full access being smarter than a.bunch of random wannabes on a message board.

Desean Jackson, week 16, 4 catches 126 yards. Set up two touchdowns. The eagles lost and the season was over. Chip let the Redskins have him for free. 0-1 for Chip.

 

[eaglesnut]

At the end of the day, this is as simple as an all pro guard losing his job to a couple of undrafted free agents.

You only made that up in hindsight during the course of this thread. If you want to act like Chip is incapable of making a bad move then you better be ready to tell us why he is better than the other 62 coaches/GMs in the league at his job and the hundreds that have come before him who left plenty of mistakes in their wake.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Cutting an established Pro Bowl veteran right after he didn't show up for voluntary workouts will have to be explained to the NFLPA. They should have done this before they began or held on to him until training camp. Dumb move. I think the NFLPA can make a good case this was retaliatory.

I think cutting an established player is not all that smart either. I am not saying that Mathis will not be missed. While he may have been a journeyman before the Eagles he was an All-Pro with us. I think a lot has to do with who is on either side of him which makes it a little easier.

The Eagles can argue that he wanted to leave as well. That is why it is going to be hard for the NFLPA to prove the Eagles violated any rules. Mathis made it perfectly clear that he wanted more money or wanted to be traded. Even gave permission to seek out trade offers and none came. Outside of Philly his grumblings may not be heard but he seems to have been complaining constantly about his deal and how he wants more money. The Eagles took a chance with him and it paid off and he was rewarded early. He originally signed a 1 year deal and had to compete for his starting job. He won that job and got a $25 million contract during that season. Not bad for a player on his 4th team.

Has DJax's cancer gone into remission? He hasn't caused any "problems" for the Redskins in his two years there and the Eagles still haven't replaced his talent to extend the field. Is this revolving door of quality players being released or traded make quality free agents more likely or less likely to sign a contract with the Eagles? Time will tell.

The Eagles had one of the best offenses in the NFL without Jackson. Think you put too much importance on his value.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Desean Jackson, week 16, 4 catches 126 yards. Set up two touchdowns. The eagles lost and the season was over. Chip let the Redskins have him for free. 0-1 for Chip.

Eagles were already out of playoff contention and the Eagles had arguably the worst secondary I have ever seen. Noticed you did not mention the game the Eagles won in week 3.

Desean Jackson is a one trick pony IMO. I expect him to light up horrible secondaries like the Eagles. When you have a receiver with that much speed and shit for corners and safeties what do you expect.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Nothing here refutes anything i said in response to your comments. It would seem then that you agree with me more than you think you do.

There are a lot of things said in this thread that have some merits on both sides of the coin. I personally think that Mathis can be replaced just find because a lot of his success had to do with who his bookends are (Kelce and Peters). That is my opinion and while I will not sit here and say that I absolutely correct I don't think it should be easily refuted either. Mathis was in the NFL for 8 years before we signed him. He started with Carolina and I believe he was not resigned after his rookie deal was done. He then signed with Miami but did not make the team and was picked up by the Bengals. Then we signed him in 2011 and he got his $25 million deal in March 2012.

He has been a very good player for us....great in fact. However he can be a malcontent when it comes to management. It appears he had problems with Cincy Management as well.

I happen to believe given a full season another guard can fill his spot.

 

[Deano]

His agent cost him about 3 to 8 million dollars by pushing him down this path. Nice job. I wonder if his agent is new and was concerned about getting a percentage of a signing bonus.

 

[L.Freamon]

Lol. You twist things in a ludicrous way no where near what I said and then call me silly? No question you have good flaming skills. Read carefully please.

What you say comes of as ludicrous. I'm just following your flawed logic.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

This is the way a business GM like Howie would have done it. Sit on him until the end of August, and cut him at the last minute if he doesn't cave. The only thing you risk there (and it's not insignificant) if that its a lousy thing to do to a player. It gives them little chance of catching on to another team and recouping any of the money they would make. That can be a huge deal in attracting Free Agents in the future.

Chip is a football oriented GM who is big on culture. He did not want a guy in camp eating up reps that didn't want to be there and grousing to other players in the locker room. He would rather focus on the guys that want to play football.

It became clear during OTAs that they like Barbre at LG and likely would have kept him there even if Mathis came back. Everyone wants to talk about being fair to Mathis, but what about Tobin and Barbre? These are a couple of guys busting their butts and showing up every day. Kelly didn't want to have Mathis waltz into camp and take their job(s), and it would have been counterproductive as well to put Mathis at second string.

I'm not entirely sure that Chip knows what he's doing as a GM...but, this move was not a bad one imo...Mathis plays OG and was paid very well for his position...yet he wanted more money? Only bad teams (Bucs - Mankins & Grubbs) trying to get better will over pay for interior OL.

 

[deerpathdave]

You only made that up in hindsight during the course of this thread. If you want to act like Chip is incapable of making a bad move then you better be ready to tell us why he is better than the other 62 coaches/GMs in the league at his job and the hundreds that have come before him who left plenty of mistakes in their wake.

Whether this is a mistake or not is yet to be determined. If Mathis signs a better contract and makes the pro bowl with another team it may be a mistake. If the new guys don't perform well it is a mistake.

I am arguing the point that right or wrong this is a well considered decision from Kelly made for football reasons rather that a rash emotional personal decision as some characterize it.

 

[L.Freamon]

Stupidity is assuming that a guy with a ton more info than you have and has risen to the top of his profession has done something stupid just because based on what you know it looks that way. I'm doubling down on the smart guy in the room with full access being smarter than a.bunch of random wannabes on a message board.

you make an interesti point though about them not seeing Mathis this year. I do believe this move is more about what they see in Barbre and Tobin than about mathis.

Again that would be dumb. "We know we have a PB guard under contract. But judging by what we see in the weight room and from running around in shorts w/o contact, this back up we have that's never played is just as good as a 2x PBer & former All pro."

I'm not twisting anything. That is exactly what you are saying and yes it is absurd.

Just admit Chip cut him for personal reasons so we can all move on.

 

[L.Freamon]

Do you have proof that they leaked that to the press? Or just what the press alleged that the Eagles leaked that. Truth is, DJAX (who I loved) does hang with some bad dudes, and takes off for vacation every year while his teammates show up. We all know that these are "voluntary" OTAs, but it shows the lack of team players rather than individuals.

What proof do you need and what would that change for you? Fact is, a story to besmirch Djax was put out there to justify his release. You're making the choice to believe it was a rouge reporter (?) or angel from heaven rather than the team who release coincided with the story. It takes more to believe that it wasn't the eagles.

Nonetheless, 0 evidence has surfaced since and Djax burned us twice. We slipped by the first time, but it caught up with us the 2nd time and cost us a playoff spot.

 

[ctc]

Stupidity is assuming that a guy with a ton more info than you have and has risen to the top of his profession has done something stupid just because based on what you know it looks that way. I'm doubling down on the smart guy in the room with full access being smarter than a.bunch of random wannabes on a message board.

you make an interesti point though about them not seeing Mathis this year. I do believe this move is more about what they see in Barbre and Tobin than about mathis.

Actually I'm criticizing you, not him. YOu keep offering up bullshit for why it was done. He merited it (based on what), he was old (he's being replaced by an almost equally old guy with less experience also coming off an injury), he was running around in his shorts better than mathis might have been (that's a good laugh). Tobin was replaced by Gardener because he was getting run over in pass protection. Now suddenly he won't!

Any of those could have been done months ago.

This was done for one reason and one reason alone, get with the program or get out.

Just leave it at that.

 

[old duke]

I agree. Let's move on please. Nothing is going to change. We've aired frustrations for 10 pages now.

I just hope that cCip drafts a OT in the first round next year, to groom behind Peters. We also may need to get a QB if SB gets hurt again. None of the other 3 would be good starters in the future.

 

[I miss Dawkins]

Kelce on the other side doesn't hurt either...

Kelce was not that good early either. You don't think in that same light, that maybe Kelce was better playing next to 2 good guards on each side of him?

 

[I miss Dawkins]

Everyone wants to talk about being fair to Mathis, but what about Tobin and Barbre? These are a couple of guys busting their butts and showing up every day. Kelly didn't want to have Mathis waltz into camp and take their job(s), and it would have been counterproductive as well to put Mathis at second string.

Thus, Tobin and Barbre are more desperate for the playing time, and closer to the culture of a college kid that Chip is more accustomed to dealing with.

But what happens when Tobin or Barbre start and make it to the probowl and then want more money???

 

[I miss Dawkins]

I think the pro game is not really that much different than college. The average career is only about four years for both and your typically dealing with 25% roster churn every year in both. This sport is as much about intensity and preparation as anything else and that is what Chip is focused on.

Are you serious???? You don't think the pro game is that much different??? WOW. Just lost all kinds of credibility in my book.

First, the average 'starting' college kid plays 2.5 years (giving credit to half of sophomores starting - which is being generous). A rookie contract is usually 4-5 years. So you think that most starters never get a 2nd contract, lone less a 3rd??? I can tell you that 100% of college kids don't. There is a VAST difference in starting time of starting players - we are not talking about bench warmers or UDFA's - but STARTERS. Hell, most people say that receivers don't begin really getting to the next until the time between year 2 and 3 (in college, they are already out of time). Would you like to go thru the roster of starters and find out how many have more than 2.5 years as a starter?? I'm sorry, but the pro game is vastly different, and one of the big things needed to make it to the playoffs and beyond is consistency - not turn over. Well, that his what several superbowl winning coaches have said - but what do they know.

 

[I miss Dawkins]

Very informative thread ... I've learned that it doesn't matter who you have at LG or RG from now on, it's all the same. Luckily Chip's smarter than all those dumb teams out there spending draft picks on Guards when they can just plug in unproven rookie free agents and get the same results. Hopefully nobody else catches on and we can continue to keep this secret all to ourselves.

snicker

I remember when it was ridiculous to draft a Guard in the 1st - and you took tackles and saved guards for 2nd rounds. Seems now, UDFA's are all you need.

I laughed.

 

[I miss Dawkins]

My issue with Cooper has faaaaaaar more to do with his lack of talent and production than his stupid drunken outburst.

That is what I thought you meant.... I didn't understand why everyone started talking about off-field drunken stupidity. The discussion had been about talent. Cutting talent and yet Cooper is still here. I like Cooper's work ethic - but he doesn't have the talent to justify the contract he was given, and he certainly proved it last year. Meanwhile Djax has made 4 different QB's look good, and embarrassed us last year and ended our season. How has our long passing game been since he left? Chip certainly buys into work ethic more than talent, and thus believes scheme trumps talent. I can see that being the case more so in college, but not so much at the pro level. Time will tell.

 

[CSB]

Kelce was not that good early either. You don't think in that same light, that maybe Kelce was better playing next to 2 good guards on each side of him?

Kelce started all 16 games as a rookie and was a pro bowl caliber center by his third year (after missing most of his second season due to injury). How is that not good early? Definitely different from a guy that bounced around for 8 years...

 

[deerpathdave]

Here is another opinion from a guy who should know....

Tra Thomas: Eagles Are Better On Left Side Without Evan Mathis - GCOBB.COM | GCOBB.COM