Game Thread: DRAFT DAY BITCHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shopson67]

To me, the reality of the QB position is if the player isn't ready to play, the team shouldn't play him. I do understand that the thinking of playing them right away and let them learn on the job, but that idea has ruined a lot more rookie QBs that it helped. Marino was basically the first rookie that was actually ready to start right away, mostly because he had the mental game down and didn't have the athletic skills that a lot of the current QBs have. Just because he was ready and some guys that came after him actually understood the demands of the position doesn't mean they all get it right away. Take a look at how many guys just take off from the pocket when they don't know what they see, that tends to give them very bad habits that they continue to fall back on instead of actually learning how to play QB in the NFL. It's probably the most demanding position in sports, and if they need to learn it to be ready, you give them the time to learn it. If it takes 1 or 2 years, then you give them the 1 or 2 years to learn it. If they're ready right away, you send them out, if they're not it's a fools errand to start them because the fans, owners or media thinks you should "see what you have". Seen that too many times to count, and I'm not saying all the guys that busted out because they were played too early ever would've amounted to anything, but that thinking sure as hell didn't help them either.

It depends on the surrounding talent as much as the rookie QB. Marino lasted deeper into the 1st round, which means he wasn't joining a bottom feeder roster. Teams at the top of the draft with their own picks typically don't have much to surround their QB with to start.

There aren't a lot of reps for backups to learn with during the season, so the value of sitting and learning may be somewhat overrated. A team tayloring their offense to the QB's strengths would shorten the adjustment period as well. Throwing a one-read RPO type QB into a complicated offense immediately is going to put that prospect seriously behind the 8 ball.

 

[Clayton]

Seen that too many times to count, and I'm not saying all the guys that busted out because they were played too early ever would've amounted to anything, but that thinking sure as hell didn't help them either.

The old rule of thumb I've always heard is that QBs improve a lot from year 1 to year 2. If your plan as a team is to sit a guy a year then I almost never have a problem with that if thats your plan. Obviously sometimes things change and you might have a Hall of Famer blocking the young QBs way but thats a good problem. Obviously Maye doesn't have that problem.

 

[shopson67]

The old rule of thumb I've always heard is that QBs improve a lot from year 1 to year 2. If your plan as a team is to sit a guy a year then I almost never have a problem with that if thats your plan. Obviously sometimes things change and you might have a Hall of Famer blocking the young QBs way but thats a good problem. Obviously Maye doesn't have that problem.

He does have a solid transition guy ahead of him in Brissett though, so no reason to rush him into starting either.

 

[Clayton]

He does have a solid transition guy ahead of him in Brissett though, so no reason to rush him into starting either.

Brissett is solid. Isnt going to lead his team above and beyond what the surrounding talent gives him but he is a solid game manager that can consistently move the chains in short yardage.

If you have a high upside rookie then thats a good player to sit behind.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I know the experts say differently but I never will believe a good QB is ruined by going into a bad situation, As posted earlier teams at the top almost always suck. The difference between CJ Stroud and Bryce Young, or Try Lance for that matter, is one can play in the league and the others can not and it didn't matter which team drafted them.

 

[shopson67]

I know the experts say differently but I never will believe a good QB is ruined by going into a bad situation, As posted earlier teams at the top almost always suck. The difference between CJ Stroud and Bryce Young, or Try Lance for that matter, is one can play in the league and the others can not and it didn't matter which team drafted them.

You're writing off Bryce after one season, lol?

How did Peyton and Aikman do their rookie seasons?

 

[PDay8810]

You're writing off Bryce after one season, lol?

How did Peyton and Aikman do their rookie seasons?

well...lol
Aikman and Manning BOTH showed they could process the coverages, stand strong in the pocket, and deliver the football. Huge difference that seldom shows up in stats or team wins.

 

[shopson67]

well...lol
Aikman and Manning BOTH showed they could process the coverages, stand strong in the pocket, and deliver the football. Huge difference that seldom shows up in stats or team wins.

They also showed they could throw the ball to the opponent repeatedly. Manning had 28 picks in 16 games, Aikman had 18 in 11, Young had 10 in 16, Young also had the highest completion percentage of the 3 and the highest QB rating of the 3, despite being sacked nearly 3x.

The Panthers have replaced their entire interior OL and seriously upgraded their WR corps and selected the 1st RB in the draft.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

You're writing off Bryce after one season, lol?

How did Peyton and Aikman do their rookie seasons?

Yes. He has shown nothing.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

I know the experts say differently but I never will believe a good QB is ruined by going into a bad situation, As posted earlier teams at the top almost always suck. The difference between CJ Stroud and Bryce Young, or Try Lance for that matter, is one can play in the league and the others can not and it didn't matter which team drafted them.

I don’t agree with this assessment.

There are teams that have proven over the years that they are bad at developing QB’s.

And some QB’s need the right system in order to be successful ( see: Geno Smith and Baker Mayfield as recent examples ). They were considered busts by the teams that drafted them. Two teams that historically have been bad at developing QB’s.

Meanwhile you have teams like SF and GB who seem to have success regardless of the QB. And that goes back to the system they run and developing the QB’s.

Some teams try and fit a QB into their system vs building a system that plays to the QB’s strengths. That almost never works.

Are there QB’s that can’t transition- of course.

But I also believe there are QB’s that would’ve had success had they gone to a different situation than the one they were drafted to.

And, unfortunately for a lot of those guys, they are written off as busts without getting a second chance or ride the bench as backups behind other QB’s.

 

[PDay8810]

They also showed they could throw the ball to the opponent repeatedly. Manning had 28 picks in 16 games, Aikman had 18 in 11, Young had 10 in 16, Young also had the highest completion percentage of the 3 and the highest QB rating of the 3, despite being sacked nearly 3x.

The Panthers have replaced their entire interior OL and seriously upgraded their WR corps and selected the 1st RB in the draft.

more stats?

lol

 

[Clayton]

Yes. He has shown nothing.

He has shown nothing but he was 21. Jayden Daniels was a very average college QB at 21.

That said, I do think if I was a Panthers fan Id be concerned.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don’t agree with this assessment.

There are teams that have proven over the years that they are bad at developing QB’s.

And some QB’s need the right system in order to be successful ( see: Geno Smith and Baker Mayfield as recent examples ). They were considered busts by the teams that drafted them. Two teams that historically have been bad at developing QB’s.

Meanwhile you have teams like SF and GB who seem to have success regardless of the QB. And that goes back to the system they run and developing the QB’s.

Some teams try and fit a QB into their system vs building a system that plays to the QB’s strengths. That almost never works.

Are there QB’s that can’t transition- of course.

But I also believe there are QB’s that would’ve had success had they gone to a different situation than the one they were drafted to.

And, unfortunately for a lot of those guys, they are written off as busts without getting a second chance or ride the bench as backups behind other QB’s.

Oh I don't think there is any doubt some teams develop QBs better than others, I'm simply stating that's not the primary reason for a player who fails. SF IS good at developing QBs but they failed on Lance because he can't play in the league. Geno Smith is not a great example to make your argument. He came off the scrap heap and had one good season before he reverted to, well, Geno Smith. If Geno was actually "successful" why would the Hawks feel the need to trade for Sam Howell and create competition for the job?

Baker actually developed well, he was good as a rookie before regressing because he is Baker Mayfield. He was good again in Tampa, that makes 3 good seasons ('18 and '20 in Cleveland and last season) and 4 bad seasons. Let's see how next year plays out but regardless it wasn't a development issues in Cleveland, he played well 2 out of his first 3 seasons.

 

[shopson67]

more stats?

lol

Easy way to compare situations with Bryce's. They all had pretty shit WR corps to work with.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

My big concern with Young is he took a LOT of sacks his last year in College... and zero surprise he was on pace to set an NFL record. I was never a huge fan of Bryce coming out of College, I really wanted Seattle to draft Stroud but the Texans were assholes.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

Oh I don't think there is any doubt some teams develop QBs better than others, I'm simply stating that's not the primary reason for a player who fails. SF IS good at developing QBs but they failed on Lance because he can't play in the league. Geno Smith is not a great example to make your argument. He came off the scrap heap and had one good season before he reverted to, well, Geno Smith. If Geno was actually "successful" why would the Hawks feel the need to trade for Sam Howell and create competition for the job?

Baker actually developed well, he was good as a rookie before regressing because he is Baker Mayfield. He was good again in Tampa, that makes 3 good seasons ('18 and '20 in Cleveland and last season) and 4 bad seasons. Let's see how next year plays out but regardless it wasn't a development issues in Cleveland, he played well 2 out of his first 3 seasons.

Geno still had a good season last year.

3600 passing yards, only 9 INT’s and a 92 passer rating. His TD’s just dropped from the previous year.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Geno still had a good season last year.

3600 passing yards, only 9 INT’s and a 92 passer rating. His TD’s just dropped from the previous year.

I didn't realize he played that well but then why did they trade for Howell to open up the competition? But even if you are right you are kind of making my argument for me. If the Jets ruined him by putting him in a crappy situation how was he able to succeed later as he clearly did?

 

[Draft Crazy]

Why the need for the cuss word in the title? There are kids around these neck of the woods.

 

[shopson67]

Why the need for the cuss word in the title? There are kids around these neck of the woods.

Kids don't cuss?

 

[DJ Fieri]

They also showed they could throw the ball to the opponent repeatedly. Manning had 28 picks in 16 games, Aikman had 18 in 11, Young had 10 in 16, Young also had the highest completion percentage of the 3 and the highest QB rating of the 3, despite being sacked nearly 3x.

The Panthers have replaced their entire interior OL and seriously upgraded their WR corps and selected the 1st RB in the draft.

Acting like he cannot improve is beyond stupid.