Don't get Too Excited About The 49ers Moving Up to #3 In The Draft

[Montalban]

But here's the thing, Fields is not only a pocket passer too, but an accurate one to all three levels. Just because he's athletic and can run like a deer doesn't mean his game is 'dual threat'. His ability to move in the poclet (athleticism) and run for yards is gravy.

What would Fields have done playing on this Alabama team?

Hard to say. I did not think Fields was known as a pocket passer who can get to the line of scrimmage and know where he is going with the ball pre-snap by his reads. I'm probably wrong about that but I don't see the NFL ever trending away from guys like Brady, Montana, Bres et al. Coaches spend all off season and 20 hour days during the season designing an offense and they all stem from throwing from the pocket, not extending broken plays. That could be the reason Shanahan may be targeting Jones over Fields if he is.

 

[deep9er]

Hard to say. I did not think Fields was known as a pocket passer who can get to the line of scrimmage and know where he is going with the ball pre-snap by his reads. I'm probably wrong about that but I don't see the NFL ever trending away from guys like Brady, Montana, Bres et al. Coaches spend all off season and 20 hour days during the season designing an offense and they all stem from throwing from the pocket, not extending broken plays. That could be the reason Shanahan may be targeting Jones over Fields if he is.

See, your following the same stereo type.....Fields can run so therefore he's a dual threat. If you read enough, you'll find out he's a pocket passer and a good one.

Not claiming Fields is on the same level with Jones regarding intangibles, but i don't feel he's so far behind that it negates him. You don't play well at Ohio St for two whole seasons, without a good amount of intangibles.

 

[Montalban]

See, your following the same stereo type.....Fields can run so therefore he's a dual threat. If you read enough, you'll find out he's a pocket passer and a good one.

Not claiming Fields is on the same level with Jones regarding intangibles, but i don't feel he's so far behind that it negates him. You don't play well at Ohio St for two whole seasons, without a good amount of intangibles.

I would hope he is a dual threat. if not then Jones is definitely the better option.

 

[Groo]

See, your following the same stereo type.....Fields can run so therefore he's a dual threat. If you read enough, you'll find out he's a pocket passer and a good one.

Not claiming Fields is on the same level with Jones regarding intangibles, but i don't feel he's so far behind that it negates him. You don't play well at Ohio St for two whole seasons, without a good amount of intangibles.

That may be true but Ohio St QB's have not done well in the NFL.

 

[deep9er]

I would hope he is a dual threat. if not then Jones is definitely the better option.

Justin Fields is a good pocket passer to all 3 levels of the field. Thats what i've been reading and i read enough to believe it.

As we all know, sometimes the pocket breaks down whether there's a blitz, a linemen misses a block, or just a plain good rush. Sometimes the coverage is good so the pass doesn't get off. Under these "sometimes" situations, Fields can run for yardage and/or 1st downs. That's how Russell Wilson and now Kyler Murray frustrates our defense, so why not have the same weapon?

I really believe Mac Jones can do well too because there's a LOT to like about a high level of intangibles. But we won't get those "sometimes" plays which is why you trade up in the first place.

 

[deep9er]

That may be true but Ohio St QB's have not done well in the NFL.

Ok, so are you saying scratch Justin Fields off the board because of this?

 

[Groo]

Ok, so are you saying scratch Justin Fields off the board because of this?

Not at all. Not sure who I'd go with but then, I've not been on board with this move by the Niners since they announced it.
I do believe Shanny's/Lynch's jobs are on the line with this move/pick
I'm just not putting much stock into your "intangibles" theory.
OSU over the years has turned out a lot of busts.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Not at all. Not sure who I'd go with but then, I've not been on board with this move by the Niners since they announced it.
I do believe Shanny's/Lynch's jobs are on the line with this move/pick
I'm just not putting much stock into your "intangibles" theory.
OSU over the years has turned out a lot of busts.

Yes, OSU has produced LOTS of busts at QB but Alabama's record isn't much (if any) better.

It's like the "Tedford" QB issue that stuck until Aaron Rodgers was the exception. All it takes is one.

 

[Groo]

Yes, OSU has produced LOTS of busts at QB but Alabama's record isn't much (if any) better.

It's like the "Tedford" QB issue that stuck until Aaron Rodgers was the exception. All it takes is one.

Sure. Bama's QB's have been game mangers for the most part. OSU's just needed to hand the ball off or make a simple read.
Cal has been a bust factory for the most part as well
No way have they recruited as well as the big boys

Jeff Tedford - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Sure. Bama's QB's have been game mangers for the most part. OSU's just needed to hand the ball off or make a simple read.
Cal has been a bust factory for the most part as well
No way have they recruited as well as the big boys

Jeff Tedford - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It says a lot about both Alabama and OSU that they consistently produce first rd players at the skill spots and on the OL. Yet, their QBs, not so much. It's been a criticism of Alabama for a while that "what do you really know about the guy b/c he's surrounded by so much talent?", and that criticism is just as fairly applied to OSU.

I've got no idea what we're gonna do at #3, or even what we should do at #3, but the media and the fanbase at large will see it as a let down if we take Mac Jones.

 

[Groo]

It says a lot about both Alabama and OSU that they consistently produce first rd players at the skill spots and on the OL. Yet, their QBs, not so much. It's been a criticism of Alabama for a while that "what do you really know about the guy b/c he's surrounded by so much talent?", and that criticism is just as fairly applied to OSU.

I've got no idea what we're gonna do at #3, or even what we should do at #3, but the media and the fanbase at large will see it as a let down if we take Mac Jones.

It's not there necks/ jobs on the chopping block
Shanny needs to filter out the noise and take the best guy candidate to run his offense.
The question is whether ownership will allow him to do that. If they are not on the same page

 

[Niner Outlaw]

It's not there necks/ jobs on the chopping block
Shanny needs to filter out the noise and take the best guy candidate to run his offense.
The question is whether ownership will allow him to do that. If they are not on the same page

I think ownership is staying out of this, b/c it's the kind of meddling that can come back to haunt them (no owner wants to screw up their HC's draft, ala Cleveland and Washington).

I agree that Ultimately, Shanny has to make the call from among the 3 real choices he'll have--no matter who the fans want. This is the kind of thing that can really come back to haunt a coach and team. We're in good enough shape right now to withstand not having a 1st rd pick for the next year or 2, but that loss of cheap talent will hobble the team from then on if the QB doesn't pan out. I understand why Shanny and Lynch made this move this year--and I've posted here somewhere--but if it doesn't work, they'll almost certainly be looking for work after the 2023 season.

 

[Groo]

I think ownership is staying out of this, b/c it's the kind of meddling that can come back to haunt them (no owner wants to screw up their HC's draft, ala Cleveland and Washington).

I agree that Ultimately, Shanny has to make the call from among the 3 real choices he'll have--no matter who the fans want. This is the kind of thing that can really come back to haunt a coach and team. We're in good enough shape right now to withstand not having a 1st rd pick for the next year or 2, but that loss of cheap talent will hobble the team from then on if the QB doesn't pan out. I understand why Shanny and Lynch made this move this year--and I've posted here somewhere--but if it doesn't work, they'll almost certainly be looking for work after the 2023 season.

Our owner staying out of it? Not likely nor I'd add very representative of their past actions

Jed might already have them on a short leash and may look for the transitional QB versus just the one who might be limited but the best immediate fit

 

[deep9er]

Not at all. Not sure who I'd go with but then, I've not been on board with this move by the Niners since they announced it.
I do believe Shanny's/Lynch's jobs are on the line with this move/pick
I'm just not putting much stock into your "intangibles" theory.
OSU over the years has turned out a lot of busts.

Ok, so you're saying Justin Fields doesn't have much intangibles right?

 

[Groo]

Ok, so you're saying Justin Fields doesn't have much intangibles right?

No. You're the one who keeps saying that. I'm saying intangibles( what ever makes those up) isn't enough
I didn't spend anytime scouting QB's. I don't have that deep of an opinion on who would be my guy
Now I watched plenty of Bama games a few OSU games and 1 NDST game(but not for the QB).

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Our owner staying out of it? Not likely nor I'd add very representative of their past actions

Jed might already have them on a short leash and may look for the transitional QB versus just the one who might be limited but the best immediate fit

Coaches who are under contract for the next 5 years are not on a short leash. Shanny has zero fear of being fired and correctly so.

Yorks' history with the team is what forced them to sign Shanny to a 6yr deal,-- ridiculously long for a first time HC--and then his success forced them to sign him to an equally ridiculous 6 year extension. If York and the gang send Shanny packing anytime in the next couple of years, he'll and another HC job almost immediately and the Niners will have zero chance at landing such a quality coach again for the next decade. I think the Yorks have learned that lesson from their years of bungling. Well, we'd certainly better hope so.

 

[deep9er]

Yes, OSU has produced LOTS of busts at QB but Alabama's record isn't much (if any) better.

It's like the "Tedford" QB issue that stuck until Aaron Rodgers was the exception. All it takes is one.

Yes there might be something to it if the school, scheme, and Coaches are all the same every year.
So ok, you would have to look into why as part of your due diligence. But really, you focus mainly on the QB's performance, traits, and whatever you can gather.

But overall, to just think a prospect doesn't have intangibles because of previous QB's at the school, doesn't work for me. To simply downgrade Justin Fields based on past OSU QB's, doesn't work for me.

 

[Groo]

Coaches who are under contract for the next 5 years are not on a short leash. Shanny has zero fear of being fired and correctly so. Yorks' history with the team is what forced them to sign Shanny to a 6yr deal,-- ridiculously long for a first time HC--and then his success forced them to sign him to an equally ridiculous 6 year extension. If York and the gang send Shanny packing anytime in the next couple of years, he'll and another HC job almost immediately and the Niners will have zero chance at landing such a quality coach again for the next decade. I think the Yorks have learned that lesson. Well, we'd certainly better hope so.

The Yorks don't seem to have a problem firing head coaches and GMs.
The Niners would be a plum job

 

[deep9er]

It's not there necks/ jobs on the chopping block
Shanny needs to filter out the noise and take the best guy candidate to run his offense.
The question is whether ownership will allow him to do that. If they are not on the same page

If Ownership was against it, Jed would've nixed the trade up. Jed is allowing them to draft whomever they see fit, and thats good.

 

[deep9er]

Our owner staying out of it? Not likely nor I'd add very representative of their past actions

Jed might already have them on a short leash and may look for the transitional QB versus just the one who might be limited but the best immediate fit

IMO Jed has already shown he's staying out of it.

I don't think they're on a short leash at all.