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Don't get Too Excited About The 49ers Moving Up to #3 In The Draft

deep9er

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Mac Jones at #3 is a Fireable Offense

I agree with everything from this article. If they believe Jones is a better QB than Lance, Fields, and Wilson then fine move up to #6 and take him. Trading with the Eagles only cost the Dolphins a future 1st and 4th round pick. We gave up an extra 1st and changed that 4th into a 3rd. Are those extra 3 spots really needed for Mac Jones??? Who was taking him ahead of #6??? The Dolphins are clearly not hunting for a QB this year. The Bengles also won't be QB hunting. The Falcons might but with Fields, Lance, and Jones available you're still sitting pretty to land a good QB at #6.

Sure maybe another team trades with the Dolphins, but you'd have to assume they'd be doing so for Fields not Jones.

It's also a poor reflection on Kyle if he goes for a Mac Jones over a Lance or Fields just based on his history of losing to QB's like Fields and Lance. The 49ers have had little problems with QB's like Goff, Ryan, Cousins, Jones, Darnold, and even Rodgers under Shanahan. The QB's we're always losing to are the ones that can extend plays like Murray, Wilson, Mahomes, and Watson. Kyle after moving up to #3 has a chance to get his own game changing QB and if he gives that up for a system QB in Jones he's starting his own doomsday clock.
At this point Justin Fields is the obvious pick IMO, so much so i think the Jets might draft him?! I don't view Mac Jones as a poor draft prospect but yes, against the backdrop of the trade, why settle for him?

Every offensive coach needs to evolve and that includes Shannahan. He doesn't need to overhaul run first and RACs, just adjust the passing plays. when you do pass. Fields will add to the depth of the passing game and improve middle and long routes..
 

Montalban

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At this point Justin Fields is the obvious pick IMO, so much so i think the Jets might draft him?! I don't view Mac Jones as a poor draft prospect but yes, against the backdrop of the trade, why settle for him?

Every offensive coach needs to evolve and that includes Shannahan. He doesn't need to overhaul run first and RACs, just adjust the passing plays. when you do pass. Fields will add to the depth of the passing game and improve middle and long routes..
Totally disagree. Jones is so polished and so comfortable in the pocket. He should be the guy but I'd be OK with Fields, he could possibly be a good QB. His epilepsy concerns me though.
 

Montalban

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Mac Jones at #3 is a Fireable Offense

I agree with everything from this article. If they believe Jones is a better QB than Lance, Fields, and Wilson then fine move up to #6 and take him. Trading with the Eagles only cost the Dolphins a future 1st and 4th round pick. We gave up an extra 1st and changed that 4th into a 3rd. Are those extra 3 spots really needed for Mac Jones??? Who was taking him ahead of #6??? The Dolphins are clearly not hunting for a QB this year. The Bengles also won't be QB hunting. The Falcons might but with Fields, Lance, and Jones available you're still sitting pretty to land a good QB at #6.

Sure maybe another team trades with the Dolphins, but you'd have to assume they'd be doing so for Fields not Jones.

It's also a poor reflection on Kyle if he goes for a Mac Jones over a Lance or Fields just based on his history of losing to QB's like Fields and Lance. The 49ers have had little problems with QB's like Goff, Ryan, Cousins, Jones, Darnold, and even Rodgers under Shanahan. The QB's we're always losing to are the ones that can extend plays like Murray, Wilson, Mahomes, and Watson. Kyle after moving up to #3 has a chance to get his own game changing QB and if he gives that up for a system QB in Jones he's starting his own doomsday clock.
If he's a system Qb, I'll certainly take that system. The records he set last year are amazing. besides why would you draft a QB who doesn't fit your system?
 

deep9er

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If he's a system Qb, I'll certainly take that system. The records he set last year are amazing. besides why would you draft a QB who doesn't fit your system?
Shannahan isn't going to change the system, so this doesn't make any sense.

All of these QB's are good enough to fit the 49ers system, they're all that good.
 

Montalban

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Shannahan isn't going to change the system, so this doesn't make any sense.

All of these QB's are good enough to fit the 49ers system, they're all that good.
It makes all the sense in the world. Shanahan believes Jones fits his system. that's why he wants to draft him.
 

Kinzu

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If he's a system Qb, I'll certainly take that system. The records he set last year are amazing. besides why would you draft a QB who doesn't fit your system?

Jones also had the benefit of Alabama's Offensive Line which is always loaded with Top Recruits and NFL talent. He also got to throw to 2 likely Top 10 WR's and had one of the most dynamic RB's in Football. Jones might be really good and certainly took advantage of his situation, but is he more of a QB you can win with or is he a QB you can win because of? #3 in the Draft is a bit to rich for a QB that lacks any elite traits that suggest they can win you games on their own. You don't want a cheaper Jimmy G for 5 years that cripples the team once you have to pay them. You want the guy that even at 30+ million a year is winning you games despite young and/or cheaper pieces around them.
 

Montalban

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Jones also had the benefit of Alabama's Offensive Line which is always loaded with Top Recruits and NFL talent. He also got to throw to 2 likely Top 10 WR's and had one of the most dynamic RB's in Football. Jones might be really good and certainly took advantage of his situation, but is he more of a QB you can win with or is he a QB you can win because of? #3 in the Draft is a bit to rich for a QB that lacks any elite traits that suggest they can win you games on their own. You don't want a cheaper Jimmy G for 5 years that cripples the team once you have to pay them. You want the guy that even at 30+ million a year is winning you games despite young and/or cheaper pieces around them.
First of all I hardly think Garoppolo crippled our offense. It was the best its been in 20 years under his leadership. And if Jones does his job, you can win because of him; because of his decision making and accuracy with his passes.
 

deep9er

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It makes all the sense in the world. Shanahan believes Jones fits his system. that's why he wants to draft him.
All three QB's fits the 49er system, they're all that good. We've read so many articles saying why each will thrive under Shannahan. Their strengths are different, but no reason why all three can't be successful.

However, Shannahan needs to adjust his system every year anyway, other teams tend to figure it out. Even Bill Walsh had to adjust his system and faster than anyone realized. I recall reading Walsh himself saying he had to keep adjusting.
 

deep9er

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Jones also had the benefit of Alabama's Offensive Line which is always loaded with Top Recruits and NFL talent. He also got to throw to 2 likely Top 10 WR's and had one of the most dynamic RB's in Football. Jones might be really good and certainly took advantage of his situation, but is he more of a QB you can win with or is he a QB you can win because of? #3 in the Draft is a bit to rich for a QB that lacks any elite traits that suggest they can win you games on their own. You don't want a cheaper Jimmy G for 5 years that cripples the team once you have to pay them. You want the guy that even at 30+ million a year is winning you games despite young and/or cheaper pieces around them.
Yes, Mac Jones would do well now, but going forward we don't have 1st round picks, the QB would need to do more than just run the scheme.

We will also start to lose good Free Agents, so again the QB has to do a little more than operate the offense.
 

deep9er

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First of all I hardly think Garoppolo crippled our offense. It was the best its been in 20 years under his leadership. And if Jones does his job, you can win because of him; because of his decision making and accuracy with his passes.
Agree JG isn't a bad QB by any means, but if this roster starts to wane, can JG do more to hold up the offense?

Also agree Mac Jones won't be a disaster and we can win with him too. But the same question arises, as the roster wanes can Jones do that extra to keep the offense going?

When you make this kind of trade up, you expect to get that 'extra'.
 

Montalban

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All three QB's fits the 49er system, they're all that good. We've read so many articles saying why each will thrive under Shannahan. Their strengths are different, but no reason why all three can't be successful.

However, Shannahan needs to adjust his system every year anyway, other teams tend to figure it out. Even Bill Walsh had to adjust his system and faster than anyone realized. I recall reading Walsh himself saying he had to keep adjusting.
They are three good, but very different QBs. All with first round talent, I agree with you there, but there is so much more to playing QB in the NFL than just being a great athlete. I'm positive that Shanahan knows which one he wants already but I have no idea who it is, just a feeling that he really likes Jones based on his past history with the QBs he's had as an OC everywhere he's been.
 

Montalban

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Agree JG isn't a bad QB by any means, but if this roster starts to wane, can JG do more to hold up the offense?

Also agree Mac Jones won't be a disaster and we can win with him too. But the same question arises, as the roster wanes can Jones do that extra to keep the offense going?

When you make this kind of trade up, you expect to get that 'extra'.
That 5 and 0h start in his first year after the team was 1 and 10 without him tells me he can carry a team. He played with a group of receivers that not anybody who is not a 49er fan could name even one of them. He was the only difference, the only change made, and all of a sudden a 1 and 10 team goes 5 and oh. When healthy, Garoppolo is good.
I think you may be underestimating just how good Jones is. I'm not an expert on quarterbacks but I certainly liked what I saw at Alabama.
 

deep9er

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They are three good, but very different QBs. All with first round talent, I agree with you there, but there is so much more to playing QB in the NFL than just being a great athlete. I'm positive that Shanahan knows which one he wants already but I have no idea who it is, just a feeling that he really likes Jones based on his past history with the QBs he's had as an OC everywhere he's been.
Yes, the intangibles kick in so being a great athlete alone, isn't good enough.

I can see prior to making the trade Shannahan had Jones in mind, cause "set and throw", "set and throw" is all Jones and he does it WELL. There's a lot to like when they say his timing and accuracy is high. A lot to like when they say he can see defenses and throws receivers open.
 

deep9er

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That 5 and 0h start in his first year after the team was 1 and 10 without him tells me he can carry a team. He played with a group of receivers that not anybody who is not a 49er fan could name even one of them. He was the only difference, the only change made, and all of a sudden a 1 and 10 team goes 5 and oh. When healthy, Garoppolo is good.
I think you may be underestimating just how good Jones is. I'm not an expert on quarterbacks but I certainly liked what I saw at Alabama.
That is a known quality, that the other players really believes in JG. That has to be a big reason they went 5-0 back then. This belief is still true today, we've read it from defensive guys too.

I'm NOT underestimating Mac Jones, although he's not my choice, i'm not going to go ballistic if he's selected. I can see him able to win a lot of regular season games but what happens in play-offs when we need that extra play? What happens when the roster isn't as strong and we need a little extra from the QB?
 

Montalban

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That is a known quality, that the other players really believes in JG. That has to be a big reason they went 5-0 back then. This belief is still true today, we've read it from defensive guys too.

I'm NOT underestimating Mac Jones, although he's not my choice, i'm not going to go ballistic if he's selected. I can see him able to win a lot of regular season games but what happens in play-offs when we need that extra play? What happens when the roster isn't as strong and we need a little extra from the QB?
The list is long of NFL QBs who were not great physical specimens but still could give you that extra play when needed. Those two guys who played at New England and San Francisco come to mind.
 

deep9er

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The list is long of NFL QBs who were not great physical specimens but still could give you that extra play when needed. Those two guys who played at New England and San Francisco come to mind.
Who is your choice, Jones?
 

Montalban

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Who is your choice, Jones?
Yes, I think so. As I said, I'm no expert on quarterback play but based on his play in college, I see him as the least likely to be a bust in the NFL. I saw this quote about him on line and I think it is the most important aspect of quarterbacking in the NFL.

"The one thing about him that's different than the other [top QBs] is he can come up to the line of scrimmage and he can tell you where he's going with it pre-snap," "He's smart enough to know where his outs are and what you're going to do with him based on where the safeties are at and what you're doing on defense.

I'm leery of college QBs who are seen as exceptional athletes. Though their ceilings can be high, I'm not sure that always works in the pros. The list of OSU QBs who were exceptional in college but complete busts in the pros is long and though I know that should not be held against Fields, it worries me.

I'm no board with either Fields or Jones and trust Shanahan's opinion over my own but I'm not on board at all with Lance.
 

deep9er

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Yes, I think so. As I said, I'm no expert on quarterback play but based on his play in college, I see him as the least likely to be a bust in the NFL. I saw this quote about him on line and I think it is the most important aspect of quarterbacking in the NFL.

"The one thing about him that's different than the other [top QBs] is he can come up to the line of scrimmage and he can tell you where he's going with it pre-snap," "He's smart enough to know where his outs are and what you're going to do with him based on where the safeties are at and what you're doing on defense.

I'm leery of college QBs who are seen as exceptional athletes. Though their ceilings can be high, I'm not sure that always works in the pros. The list of OSU QBs who were exceptional in college but complete busts in the pros is long and though I know that should not be held against Fields, it worries me.

I'm no board with either Fields or Jones and trust Shanahan's opinion over my own but I'm not on board at all with Lance.
I don't think Jones will bust either, but i have the same view with the other two. All will be starting QB's unless Adam Gase is their HC.

What everyone is trying to PROJECT is which one will become elite, not just a starter? The NFL has trended away from the pocket passer (Brady, Rivers and Brees), so in 2 years, will we be the dinasour in an even more dynamic NFL? We have a hard time defending Russell Wilson because he extends plays, do we want to have a QB who can't extend plays, but gets sacked? Similar difficulty defending Kyler Murray, if the play breaks down he doesn't only run for 3 yards.

When you have a QB that can run, defenses can't just flat out rush their front 4.
 

Montalban

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I don't think Jones will bust either, but i have the same view with the other two. All will be starting QB's unless Adam Gase is their HC.

What everyone is trying to PROJECT is which one will become elite, not just a starter? The NFL has trended away from the pocket passer (Brady, Rivers and Brees), so in 2 years, will we be the dinasour in an even more dynamic NFL? We have a hard time defending Russell Wilson because he extends plays, do we want to have a QB who can't extend plays, but gets sacked? Similar difficulty defending Kyler Murray, if the play breaks down he doesn't only run for 3 yards.

When you have a QB that can run, defenses can't just flat out rush their front 4.
Everything I hear from the pundits on TV says the opposite. They are saying pocket passing is still the ticket to success. All the good ones can do it. Can you point me to any articles that say differently.? I'm too lazy to look them up myself. Mahomes could be considered an exception because he improvises so well if were not for the fact that he is superb within the pocket as well.

I just think the chances of Lance, and to a lesser extent, Fields busting are greater than Jones' although they may have a higher potential ceiling.
 

deep9er

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Everything I hear from the pundits on TV says the opposite. They are saying pocket passing is still the ticket to success. All the good ones can do it. Can you point me to any articles that say differently.? I'm too lazy to look them up myself. Mahomes could be considered an exception because he improvises so well if were not for the fact that he is superb within the pocket as well.

I just think the chances of Lance, and to a lesser extent, Fields busting are greater than Jones' although they may have a higher potential ceiling.
But here's the thing, Fields is not only a pocket passer too, but an accurate one to all three levels. Just because he's athletic and can run like a deer doesn't mean his game is 'dual threat'. His ability to move in the poclet (athleticism) and run for yards is gravy.

What would Fields have done playing on this Alabama team?
 
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