Donald Fehr & NHLPA want to eliminate fighting

[Comeds]

Still think there's nothing with enough value to keep it around. I know I won't be convinced, so I'm pretty sure I won't be convincing anyone either.

Same here. I am as hard headed as anyone else here. I am suprised I changed my mind from a few years ago. I guess its the pussification of me.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Same here. I am as hard headed as anyone else here. I am suprised I changed my mind from a few years ago. I guess its the pussification of me.

The value of fighting in the game is it keeps players from getting away with cheapshots. If fighting is eliminated from the game I predict there will be a lot of serious injuries that would never have happened if players were allowed to police themselves.

 

[pixburgher66]

I don't buy that argument. The players cheap-shot each other because of a lack of respect and recklessness. I don't think a fight is going to change that. I don't think fights HAVE changed that. Suddenly guys are going to go out and think "well, I don't have to fight, so I'll just throw an elbow." If there was a semblance of a consistent discipline from up top, that would be the deterrent. The guys that dole out cheap shots aren't typically guys that are afraid to drop the gloves.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Hockey is, and always has been, a sport steeped in a culture of violence. Players have learned, however, to navigate through its mazes and labyrinths of physical contact by adhering to an honor code of conduct known simply as the "Code." As mysterious as it is sacred, the Code is an unwritten set of rules, the bible of hockey sportsmanship if you will, that has been handed down from generation to generation. The Code picks up where the rulebook leaves off and fills in the gaps, all in an effort to govern the game and its players - allowing them to compete in a manner deemed fair and respectful.

To fully understand the significance and history behind the Code, Ross Bernstein, interviewed more than 50 current and former NHL players, coaches and media personalities. Their insight tells the story of why fighting is allowed in the National Hockey League and how the Code allows the players to police themselves both on and off the ice.

While the Code has been around since the early days of hockey, it remains a very taboo subject shrouded in mystery. In fact, many players are simply unwilling to talk about it publicly. It is a system of rules which was learned by most players as kids playing minor and junior hockey in Canada. Then, as teenagers, the players were shown what was acceptable and what wasn't by trial and error and plain ol' baptism by fire. Everything from bench clearing brawls to settling old scores is covered in the Code. It's all in there, but you won't read about it anywhere. Nope, there is no manual or rule book to refer to, just a way of life for hockey's elite who are lucky enough to find themselves initiated into one of professional sports' greatest fraternities.

Hockey's rules of engagement come down to players protecting one another, factors of intimidation, and good old fashioned camaraderie. If a player challenges another player, that player must answer the bell - or risk the humiliation of being considered dirty, or even a coward. Worse yet, if that player refuses to right what was wronged right then and there, he risks having that incident escalate to another level, involving additional teammates. The Code keeps players of all levels honest and forces them to keep their heads on a swivel. It makes them think twice about carrying their sticks high, running a player from behind or checking the wrong guy at the wrong time. It is intimidation based on the theory that a good offense can be established by having a good defense.

The Code is much, much bigger than any one individual or team. Simply put, you don't break the rules of the Code, because if you do, then there will be hell to pay - period. There is a chain of accountability in pro hockey and it's been that way for more than 100 years. It is about keeping a sense of equality when it comes to big players competing against little players. It is about keeping the game on an equal playing field with regards to everything from cheap shots, to high sticks, to slashing, to fighting. That is what the Code is all about - respect, accountability, pride and honor.

The Code: The Unwritten Rules of Fighting and Retaliation in the NHL - Ross Bernstein - Hockey Fighting Book

 

[Comeds]

The value of fighting in the game is it keeps players from getting away with cheapshots. If fighting is eliminated from the game I predict there will be a lot of serious injuries that would never have happened if players were allowed to police themselves.

If I honestly thought that I might be fine with fighting. I watch a ton of games and I do not see fighting acting as any kind of deterrence. There are cheap shots all the time. Who are some of the great cheap shot artists ever? Ulf? Cooke? Marchment? Did they seem to worry about getting in fights? If you dont want to fight one can move away or turtle, how is that a deterrence?

Not to mention the amount of stupid fights after clean hits.

 

[IPostedWhat]

If I honestly thought that I might be fine with fighting. I watch a ton of games and I do not see fighting acting as any kind of deterrence. There are cheap shots all the time. Who are some of the great cheap shot artists ever? Ulf? Cooke? Marchment? Did they seem to worry about getting in fights? If you dont want to fight one can move away or turtle, how is that a deterrence?

Not to mention the amount of stupid fights after clean hits.

Of course there are cheap shots all the time, but the fact that the players police themselves probably reduces the amount of cheap shots, or makes people think twice before they do anything.

Most of the time a player who commits a cheap shot knows full well he's going to get challenged to a fight, and he's fine with that. Fighting can be a game changer and change momentum in a game.

The players who run away or turtle after a cheap shot lose respect in the eyes of the players around the League, and that is worse than simply fighting someone.

And the players at least know not to fight someone that is a total mismatch. You don't see Chara out there taking on Gerbe just because he got in his face a bit. The players seem to know what's going on, and that is why 98% of them want to keep it in the game. Who are we to tell them they're wrong?

 

[Comeds]

The players seem to know what's going on, and that is why 98% of them want to keep it in the game. Who are we to tell them they're wrong?

I posted earlier that if the players want it in it should remain in.

Kind of a side question. Is fighting in the game rule book wise. I know if a player gets a clean check and gets injured, its part of the game. Suppose a player put a clean hit on a player, another didnt like it and started hitting him injuring his eye and ending his career. Would the player have a legal recourse? Should he? Or really any player who doesnt want to fight being punched.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Kind of a side question. Is fighting in the game rule book wise. I know if a player gets a clean check and gets injured, its part of the game. Suppose a player put a clean hit on a player, another didnt like it and started hitting him injuring his eye and ending his career. Would the player have a legal recourse? Should he?

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/3069100-post64.html

 

[awaz]

i dont know exactly what the numbers say on this, but i dont see fighting as any more dangerous than some of the hitting in the game.. from a strictly player safety standpoint, i think you'd be better off getting rid of checking a guy with his head down, than you would getting rid of fighting. at least, it seems like that to me.

'staged fighting' seems like it's being phased out to me, even without a rule saying it's illegal. how many teams really put an enforcer out every night? the flyers dressed a strict enforcer maybe 10 times this season, and that's the flyers.

 

[IPostedWhat]

The Sabres are a perfect example of this. Look what happened to them when they tried to fill their roster with more smaller "skilled" players. They were getting killed. And why??? Because teams did not fear them, they were not intimidated at all.

They knew they could go out there and throw their weight around because the Sabres had no one on their roster who could keep things in check and keep players honest. People for years were bashing the Sabres for being too weak, players and fans alike. The Sabres were always losing players to injuries and getting hammered on the ice on a nightly basis.

Suddenly they start to get a bit tougher and add some muscle, and what do you know, it's working. Teams are not going out there anymore and crushing the Sabres because they now know they can get it right back.

Checks and balances my friend, checks and balances.

 

[Comeds]

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/3069100-post64.html

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/3064523-post18.html

I dont think the code has existed at all in the 16 years I have been watching.

Some people are worried about lawsuits for things if fighting is removed. My question is if someone is punched who doesn't want to fight and is seriously injured are there legal repercussions. Should there be?

 

[IPostedWhat]

Some people are worried about lawsuits for things if fighting is removed. My question is if someone is punched who doesn't want to fight and is seriously injured are there legal repercussions. Should there be?

If a pitcher is found to intentionally throw a ball at a batter, should that batter be allowed to sue or press charges?

If a defensless football player is hit or found to get injured intentionally, can that player sue?

If a basekball player is hit on purpose with an elbow trying to block a shot, should he be allowed to sue.

There is an inherit risk of a player getting injured whether he is directly involved or not. Every player knows and accepts this, and that is why they get paid big bucks.

We might as well just cancel all sports right now if we are going to open this can of worms.

 

[Comeds]

Hey I am not saying I think there should be legal recourse. I was just pondering it. Just if a player is not fighting and is punched and injured I would be pretty unhappy and was wondering if that's covered under the rules of the game or if there could be a legal recourse.

The Habs Emelin isn't supposed to fight because he has plates in his face from an injury before the NHL. When Chara jumped him and started punching him (the code was off that day) because he was unhappy with a hit what if major damage was done? Is that all "just part of the game"? Is the proper recourse and punch to the head of an unsuspecting team mate of Charas?

 

[IPostedWhat]

The Habs Emelin isn't supposed to fight because he has plates in his face from an injury before the NHL. When Chara jumped him and started punching him (the code was off that day) because he was unhappy with a hit what if major damage was done? Is that all "just part of the game"? Is the proper recourse and punch to the head of an unsuspecting team mate of Charas?

The Code works in mysterious ways, and can't always be easily explained. We don't know because the players won't talk about it, but you have to have faith and trust that they know what they are doing overall.

The Code in Hockey is basically like the Bible, except real.

But yes, that's the whole point of having enforcers bigger than the other team. You want to make sure they stay honest so they won't take the risk of having one of their players targeted in retaliation. Once again, it's human nature. You don't start shit if you can't back it up or aren't willing to accept there may be any consenquences from it.

It's part of the mental aspect of hockey called intimidation, and it works.

 

[Comeds]

Two great quotes in that post....

 

[IPostedWhat]

Two great quotes in that post....

Thanks?

 

[Comeds]

Thanks?

Youre welcome. It was a compliment. I'm on a tablet and its hard for me to highlight things. The first line and the third made me laugh.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Youre welcome. It was a compliment. I'm on a tablet and its hard for me to highlight things. The first line and the third made me laugh.

Ok, I just didn't know if you were serious or being sarcastic. I was getting ready to take a run at this 8 year old kid from Montreal, that seems to be working here for some odd reason, just in case you were the latter.

 

[puckhead]

I don't buy that argument. The players cheap-shot each other because of a lack of respect and recklessness. I don't think a fight is going to change that. I don't think fights HAVE changed that. Suddenly guys are going to go out and think "well, I don't have to fight, so I'll just throw an elbow." If there was a semblance of a consistent discipline from up top, that would be the deterrent. The guys that dole out cheap shots aren't typically guys that are afraid to drop the gloves.

The players cheap-shot each other because they can get away with it.
and if a potential 2 minutes isn't a deterrent (shoddy reffing / game out of reach / etc), then getting shitkicked will be.

I have played against assholes who will hurt you because it's worth a minor penalty, and I have also been the asshole who will hurt an opponent because its worth a minor penalty. referees are not an effective deterrent most of the time.

 

[IPostedWhat]

We should have a SportsHoopla Poll on this. Did we ever have one? Should we have one?

I think we should. I am actually curious to see which side the Hockey fans on here are on.

We could make it a private poll so no one feels like they will be called out on their vote or some shit, I don't know?

We should have a poll.