Dilfer says kaep is one read qb

[Crimsoncrew]

I just want to throw something out re: receivers:

DAL: Terrance Williams, 498 yards and 5 TDs (3rd round, 2013)
NYG: Victor Cruz, 714 yards and 4 TDs (undrafted, 2009)
PHI: Riley Cooper, 555 yards and 7 TDs (5th round, 2010)
WAS: Leonard Hankerson, 370 yards and 3 TDs (3rd round, 2011)
SEA: Doug Baldwin, 523 yards and 2 TDs (undrafted, 2011)
STL: Chris Givens, 463 yards and 0 TDs (4th round, 2012)
DET: Kris Durham, 315 yards and 2 TDs (4th round, 2011 by Seattle)
GB: Jarrett Boykin, 362 yards and 1 TD (undrafted, 2012)
ATL: Harry Douglas, 620 yards and 1 TD (4th round, 2008)
CAR: Brandon LaFell, 400 yards and 3 TDs (3rd round, 2010)
NO: Kenny Stills, 437 yards and 4 TDs (5th round, 2013)
MIA: Brian Hartline, 534 yards and 2 TDs (4th round, 2009)
NE: Julian Edelman, 473 yards and 2 TDs (7th round, 2009)
NE: Kenbrell Thompkins, 334 yards and 4 TDs (undrafted, 2013)
NYJ: Jeremy Kerley, 347 yards and 2 TDs (5th round, 2011)
DEN: Eric Decker, 721 yards and 3 TDs (3rd round, 2010)
KC: Donnie Avery, 396 yards and 1 TD (2nd round, 2008 by Rams)
OAK: Rod Streater, 423 yards and 1 TD (undrafted, 2012)
SD: Keenan Allen, 568 yards and 3 TDs (3rd round, 2013)
BAL: Marlon Brown, 307 yards and 5 TDs (undrafted, 2013)
PIT: Antonio Brown, 805 yards and 3 TDs (6th round, 2010)
PIT: Emmanuel Sanders, 507 yards and 2 TDs (3rd round, 2010)
IND: T.Y. Hilton, 663 yards and 5 TDs (3rd round, 2012)
JAX: Cecil Shorts, 607 yards and 1 TD (4th round, 2011)
JAX: Mike Brown, 266 yards and 1 TD (undrafted, 2012)

Of 32 NFL teams, you have 22 with at least one of their top-two WRs who was added in the third round or later, or was a re-tread (very low-cost FA). We have a gaping hole at the second WR spot - or have pre-Manningham - and we haven't been able to get any production out of it whatsoever. I think this is an indictment of several things: the personnel people, the coaching, and the QB.

It's difficult to say what proportion the blame should fall on each group, but I tend to think the coaching staff and the QB have the biggest hand in it. Teams with mediocre (generously) QBs and coaches have gotten production out of the second WR spot. We seem unable to do so. This has to change. I think there is quite a lot of truth to the argument that Kap doesn't go through his progressions well. Last year, this led to a huge second half of the year for Crabtree, while Davis virtually disappeared during the regular season. It led to three straight incompletions to Crabtree at the end of the super bowl. And this year it's led to Davis and Boldin accounting for virtually all the receiving yardage on the team. It's got to stop. Obviously this is not going to change over night, and certainly not before the Saints game, but finding, grooming, and using WRs has to be of prime importance to this team going forward.

 

[TobyTyler]

I just want to throw something out re: receivers:

DAL: Terrance Williams, 498 yards and 5 TDs (3rd round, 2013)
NYG: Victor Cruz, 714 yards and 4 TDs (undrafted, 2009)
PHI: Riley Cooper, 555 yards and 7 TDs (5th round, 2010)
WAS: Leonard Hankerson, 370 yards and 3 TDs (3rd round, 2011)
SEA: Doug Baldwin, 523 yards and 2 TDs (undrafted, 2011)
STL: Chris Givens, 463 yards and 0 TDs (4th round, 2012)
DET: Kris Durham, 315 yards and 2 TDs (4th round, 2011 by Seattle)
GB: Jarrett Boykin, 362 yards and 1 TD (undrafted, 2012)
ATL: Harry Douglas, 620 yards and 1 TD (4th round, 2008)
CAR: Brandon LaFell, 400 yards and 3 TDs (3rd round, 2010)
NO: Kenny Stills, 437 yards and 4 TDs (5th round, 2013)
MIA: Brian Hartline, 534 yards and 2 TDs (4th round, 2009)
NE: Julian Edelman, 473 yards and 2 TDs (7th round, 2009)
NE: Kenbrell Thompkins, 334 yards and 4 TDs (undrafted, 2013)
NYJ: Jeremy Kerley, 347 yards and 2 TDs (5th round, 2011)
DEN: Eric Decker, 721 yards and 3 TDs (3rd round, 2010)
KC: Donnie Avery, 396 yards and 1 TD (2nd round, 2008 by Rams)
OAK: Rod Streater, 423 yards and 1 TD (undrafted, 2012)
SD: Keenan Allen, 568 yards and 3 TDs (3rd round, 2013)
BAL: Marlon Brown, 307 yards and 5 TDs (undrafted, 2013)
PIT: Antonio Brown, 805 yards and 3 TDs (6th round, 2010)
PIT: Emmanuel Sanders, 507 yards and 2 TDs (3rd round, 2010)
IND: T.Y. Hilton, 663 yards and 5 TDs (3rd round, 2012)
JAX: Cecil Shorts, 607 yards and 1 TD (4th round, 2011)
JAX: Mike Brown, 266 yards and 1 TD (undrafted, 2012)

Of 32 NFL teams, you have 22 with at least one of their top-two WRs who was added in the third round or later, or was a re-tread (very low-cost FA). We have a gaping hole at the second WR spot - or have pre-Manningham - and we haven't been able to get any production out of it whatsoever. I think this is an indictment of several things: the personnel people, the coaching, and the QB.

It's difficult to say what proportion the blame should fall on each group, but I tend to think the coaching staff and the QB have the biggest hand in it. Teams with mediocre (generously) QBs and coaches have gotten production out of the second WR spot. We seem unable to do so. This has to change. I think there is quite a lot of truth to the argument that Kap doesn't go through his progressions well. Last year, this led to a huge second half of the year for Crabtree, while Davis virtually disappeared during the regular season. It led to three straight incompletions to Crabtree at the end of the super bowl. And this year it's led to Davis and Boldin accounting for virtually all the receiving yardage on the team. It's got to stop. Obviously this is not going to change over night, and certainly not before the Saints game, but finding, grooming, and using WRs has to be of prime importance to this team going forward.

What good does having a quality second receiver do when Kaeprnick only goes with his first read?

 

[yossarian]

What good does having a quality second receiver do when Kaeprnick only goes with his first read?

He also said "using" a receiver, but your point is well taken. Harbaugh is a good enough coach that he has probably tried to teach going through the progressions.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

The Redskins on the road are going to be a tough out. They are playing a lot better of late. You watch, they will give the 49ers all they can handle with the 49ers being at the end of back to back east coast games on the road. I think they will frustrate Kaepernick and shut him down while scoring just enough to win. I'll say 20 to 16, scoring late in the 4th to win. Let's revisit this in two weeks where I will happily eat crow if I am proven wrong.

Better than their 0-3 run to start the season? Sure. But they aren't playing particularly well lately. They won a close, high-scoring affair against the Bears after Cutler went down with an injury. They got handled by Dallas and Denver. They lost to Minnesota (really, do I have to say more?). Their only "good" game was an early start against San Diego, in which they led by 10 with seven minutes remaining. They had a great goal-line stand to only allow SD to tie, and a nice drive to win, but I don't think they're all that good. It's an evening game, and the Niners have actually done pretty well with back-to-back road games. If we can't win that one, it won't matter if we make the playoffs. We won't be winning any games.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

What good does having a quality second receiver do when Kaeprnick only goes with his first read?

Did you even read the last paragraph?

 

[Jikkle]

The issue with the WR spot is we've invested very little in it over the past few drafts.

Crabtree and Jenkins have been the only #1 picks and the rest have been in the 6th round aside from the recently drafted Patton but with his injuries he hasn't been able to get in and contribute much to date. It's very hard to get #2 WR production outside of the first 3 rounds since teams snatch up the talent quickly and even guys with red flags typically don't see major falls.

The other issue is the types of WR we currently have assembled and that's why the Jenkins whiff is killing us right now. We desperately need a speed guy that can take the top off things and force guys back and spread defenses out. Right now we have Boldin as a number 1 guy who I love but he's not a #1 type of WR. He would work far better when you have guys drawing coverage away from him and he can overpower 1 on 1 coverage against lesser DBs.

I've beaten the drum already in a couple of other threads but I'm not a fan of Roman's passing game. It's vanilla, I don't think he calls a very good one, and I don't think he does a good enough job in putting guys in positions to succeed. LMJ is a perfect example of this. With LMJ's speed why in the world are you not creating ways to give Kap an easy throw and get him into space where he would be more dangerous? Instead all we do with LMJ is give him a couple of predictable runs to the outside when he should be our Darren Sproles or Reggie Bush. Where are the easy 3 step drop slants for 5 or so yards?

I mean we heard a couple of years ago Alex Smith was a "One Read QB" and Harbaugh and Roman were making things easy on him by giving him one read. At first you assumed it was because Smith was a limited passer but now you're hearing the same thing with Kap so now it makes you question how much is on the QB himself and how much of it is by desgin.

 

[Abeka]

honestly i just think dilfer just wishes he had half of kap's arm

i was thinking the same thing

 

[yossarian]

I've beaten the drum already in a couple of other threads but I'm not a fan of Roman's passing game. It's vanilla, I don't think he calls a very good one, and I don't think he does a good enough job in putting guys in positions to succeed. LMJ is a perfect example of this. With LMJ's speed why in the world are you not creating ways to give Kap an easy throw and get him into space where he would be more dangerous? Instead all we do with LMJ is give him a couple of predictable runs to the outside when he should be our Darren Sproles or Reggie Bush. Where are the easy 3 step drop slants for 5 or so yards?

I mean we heard a couple of years ago Alex Smith was a "One Read QB" and Harbaugh and Roman were making things easy on him by giving him one read. At first you assumed it was because Smith was a limited passer but now you're hearing the same thing with Kap so now it makes you question how much is on the QB himself and how much of it is by desgin.

Kevin Lynch on his chat said Johnny Morton designs the passing plays, so maybe something has to change there. I don't remember reading that Smith was a one read qb, and if he goes to his check downs all the time isn't that contradictory? I mean what is a check down if it isn't the 2nd or 3rd read? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the term.

 

[TobyTyler]

He also said "using" a receiver, but your point is well taken. Harbaugh is a good enough coach that he has probably tried to teach going through the progressions.

Its so strange because I specifically remember a touchdown throw of his against the Bears last year where he looked to his right and then in the middle and ended up hitting Crabtree across the middle coming from the right and thinking "wow, look how he just hit his third read". I was very impressed. What happened to that guy?

 

[TobyTyler]

Did you even read the last paragraph?

Probably not. I'll go read it now.

 

[TobyTyler]

Did you even read the last paragraph?

OK, I just read it. Wouldn't it be easier to go find a and groom a Quarterback than a bunch of receivers as you suggested?

 

[Jikkle]

Kevin Lynch on his chat said Johnny Morton designs the passing plays, so maybe something has to change there. I don't remember reading that Smith was a one read qb, and if he goes to his check downs all the time isn't that contradictory? I mean what is a check down if it isn't the 2nd or 3rd read? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the term.

I recall watching some analysts saying that we made it easy for Alex Smith because we gave him one read and if it wasn't there he would check it down.

It wasn't Alex standing back there going through progressions but Alex checking his one read and if it wasn't there dumping it off to the check down guy.

 

[CalamityX11]

As great as Davis is and has come through for us, wouldn't change that ever... for me, it's still not a valid excuse or an acceptable one to boot for the offense not to continue a sustainable success without Davis....

We should be beyond one important cog outside of QB for the offense by now... We're not asking for 30 pts without Davis but fucking sh*t get us into FG range at least

 

[FourBeeDen]

I recall watching some analysts saying that we made it easy for Alex Smith because we gave him one read and if it wasn't there he would check it down.

It wasn't Alex standing back there going through progressions but Alex checking his one read and if it wasn't there dumping it off to the check down guy.

If that's the case, then why not do the same for Kaep?

 

[TobyTyler]

If that's the case, then why not do the same for Kaep?

Probably because they hoped to get away from that restriction on the offense by playing kaepernick

 

[MHSL82]

The Redskins on the road are going to be a tough out. They are playing a lot better of late. You watch, they will give the 49ers all they can handle with the 49ers being at the end of back to back east coast games on the road. I think they will frustrate Kaepernick and shut him down while scoring just enough to win. I'll say 20 to 16, scoring late in the 4th to win. Let's revisit this in two weeks where I will happily eat crow if I am proven wrong.

What I have felt, and I know it's not accurate, is that there will be a point in the third quarter that I feel I know how it'll end, and sometimes it's not what the score is. They could be winning and I'll switch the channel because I "know" they'll lose. Sometimes, the reverse. I don't get that feeling with other teams. There's a click, not that I'm an expert or prophetic.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

The issue with the WR spot is we've invested very little in it over the past few drafts.

Crabtree and Jenkins have been the only #1 picks and the rest have been in the 6th round aside from the recently drafted Patton but with his injuries he hasn't been able to get in and contribute much to date. It's very hard to get #2 WR production outside of the first 3 rounds since teams snatch up the talent quickly and even guys with red flags typically don't see major falls.

The other issue is the types of WR we currently have assembled and that's why the Jenkins whiff is killing us right now. We desperately need a speed guy that can take the top off things and force guys back and spread defenses out. Right now we have Boldin as a number 1 guy who I love but he's not a #1 type of WR. He would work far better when you have guys drawing coverage away from him and he can overpower 1 on 1 coverage against lesser DBs.

I've beaten the drum already in a couple of other threads but I'm not a fan of Roman's passing game. It's vanilla, I don't think he calls a very good one, and I don't think he does a good enough job in putting guys in positions to succeed. LMJ is a perfect example of this. With LMJ's speed why in the world are you not creating ways to give Kap an easy throw and get him into space where he would be more dangerous? Instead all we do with LMJ is give him a couple of predictable runs to the outside when he should be our Darren Sproles or Reggie Bush. Where are the easy 3 step drop slants for 5 or so yards?

I mean we heard a couple of years ago Alex Smith was a "One Read QB" and Harbaugh and Roman were making things easy on him by giving him one read. At first you assumed it was because Smith was a limited passer but now you're hearing the same thing with Kap so now it makes you question how much is on the QB himself and how much of it is by desgin.

That's part of the reason I compiled the list above. There are 17 guys taken after the third round on that list, and those are all guys who are top-two WRs on their respective teams - or have at least filled a top-two role. We should be able to get something out of that.

As far as a fast guy, I agree that would be ideal, but you don't necessarily need pure speed. In theory, we should be able to use a big guy like Baldwin to stretch the field as well. Or, you know, a guy like Ginn. I really question how we use WRs....

 

[FourBeeDen]

Probably because they hoped to get away from that restriction on the offense by playing kaepernick

OK but at 9 games in, shouldn't there be enough evidence to show the contrary?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Its so strange because I specifically remember a touchdown throw of his against the Bears last year where he looked to his right and then in the middle and ended up hitting Crabtree across the middle coming from the right and thinking "wow, look how he just hit his third read". I was very impressed. What happened to that guy?

Yeah, I've been thinking about that play a lot lately myself.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

OK, I just read it. Wouldn't it be easier to go find a and groom a Quarterback than a bunch of receivers as you suggested?

I'm going to go with no. It's pretty tough to find a great QB.