Did this board Proclaim Kap>luck last year?

[Schmoopy1000]

Let me be even more explicit: If you think a guy who completed 54% of passes, had only 23 TDs to 27 Turnovers, and had less than 7 YPA deserved rookie of the year, you are foolish. It's really indefensible. It's like arguing that Robert Horry is the best NBA player of the last 30 years.

yeah taking a 2-14 team to 11-5 while losing other players is a horrible argument. How easy do stats come taking over the worst team in football? I hate when people look at stats only say look. Fact is undeniable that Luck took over the worst team in football. & I am not a Colts or a Luck fan.

 

[Smart]

yeah taking a 2-14 team to 11-5 while losing other players is a horrible argument. How easy do stats come taking over the worst team in football? I hate when people look at stats only say look. Fact is undeniable that Luck took over the worst team in football. & I am not a Colts or a Luck fan.

How is it undeniable? He took over a team that had won ten games in 10 of 11 seasons. Russell took over a team that nobody thought could win 8 games. Ten defenses gave up more points than Indy, and their defense had to contend with a turnover machine on offense. So let's forget about defenses. Let us only talk about offense.

The Colts had the 18th highest scoring offense in the league. Russell Wilson's Seahawks were 9th. Andrew Luck had 27 turnovers. Russell Wilson had 13. Russell Wilson had a much worse receiving core and an equally bad offensive line. And his passing numbers were laughably better than Luck's. He had a higher passer rating in all 11 ESPN splits.

And as for your "worst team in the NFL" argument, it's made all the more stupid because the QB who inherited the worst team in the NFL this year is making Luck look like mincemeat. Things change in the NFL. A bad supporting cast one year does not make a bad supporting cast the next year.

Wilson was better than Luck in college. He was better than Luck as a rookie. He is better than Luck this year. At some point, people are just going to realize that maybe, just maybe, Wilson is better than Andrew Luck.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

How is it undeniable? He took over a team that had won ten games in 10 of 11 seasons. Russell took over a team that nobody thought could win 8 games. Ten defenses gave up more points than Indy, and their defense had to contend with a turnover machine on offense. So let's forget about defenses. Let us only talk about offense.

The Colts had the 18th highest scoring offense in the league. Russell Wilson's Seahawks were 9th. Andrew Luck had 27 turnovers. Russell Wilson had 13. Russell Wilson had a much worse receiving core and an equally bad offensive line. And his passing numbers were laughably better than Luck's. He had a higher passer rating in all 11 ESPN splits.

And as for your "worst team in the NFL" argument, it's made all the more stupid because the QB who inherited the worst team in the NFL this year is making Luck look like mincemeat. Things change in the NFL. A bad supporting cast one year does not make a bad supporting cast the next year.

Wilson was better than Luck in college. He was better than Luck as a rookie. He is better than Luck this year. At some point, people are just going to realize that maybe, just maybe, Wilson is better than Andrew Luck.

Well Seahawks team wasn't even close to being as bad as the Colts the year before they came to their teams. Both skins & the Hawks could run the ball. A rookies best friend. Colts sucked. With all that said I was talking about RGIII & Luck. Luck inherited a team that sucked at everything!
I do think Wilson is a stud QB. & seems to be the only one from all the read options QBs to still seem unstoppable. Im not gonna sit here & dis Wilson. He is one of the biggest surprises (to me atleast) of that draft. I do agree this year he looks better than the others, even though the Seahawks Defense simply seems bad ass. I can agree that the Hawks offense depends on Wilson.

If you want to make your case for Wilson being Rookie of the year over RGIII feel free. My point is RGIII shouldnt have beat Luck for the award.

 

[Doublejive]

Well Seahawks team wasn't even close to being as bad as the Colts the year before they came to their teams. Both skins & the Hawks could run the ball. A rookies best friend. Colts sucked. With all that said I was talking about RGIII & Luck. Luck inherited a team that sucked at everything!
I do think Wilson is a stud QB. & seems to be the only one from all the read options QBs to still seem unstoppable. Im not gonna sit here & dis Wilson. He is one of the biggest surprises (to me atleast) of that draft. I do agree this year he looks better than the others, even though the Seahawks Defense simply seems bad ass. I can agree that the Hawks offense depends on Wilson.

If you want to make your case for Wilson being Rookie of the year over RGIII feel free. My point is RGIII shouldnt have beat Luck for the award.

Both you and Smart made very good comment's,,,but you win a prize being that you recognize that LOB (Legion of Boom) helped Wilson win also.

 

[DunceKaep]

How is it undeniable? He took over a team that had won ten games in 10 of 11 seasons. Russell took over a team that nobody thought could win 8 games. Ten defenses gave up more points than Indy, and their defense had to contend with a turnover machine on offense. So let's forget about defenses. Let us only talk about offense.

The Colts had the 18th highest scoring offense in the league. Russell Wilson's Seahawks were 9th. Andrew Luck had 27 turnovers. Russell Wilson had 13. Russell Wilson had a much worse receiving core and an equally bad offensive line. And his passing numbers were laughably better than Luck's. He had a higher passer rating in all 11 ESPN splits.

And as for your "worst team in the NFL" argument, it's made all the more stupid because the QB who inherited the worst team in the NFL this year is making Luck look like mincemeat. Things change in the NFL. A bad supporting cast one year does not make a bad supporting cast the next year.

Wilson was better than Luck in college. He was better than Luck as a rookie. He is better than Luck this year. At some point, people are just going to realize that maybe, just maybe, Wilson is better than Andrew Luck.

^^^^ this is correct. The Colts tanked that one season. It worked. They played Curtis Painter @ QB. They made very little effort to win. Can't believe people haven't called them on this obvious tanking.

 

[cdumler7]

I like both Wilson and Luck and think both of them will be two of the top five or so quarterbacks for the next quite a few seasons but to try and say Luck had just as much as Wilson is just ridiculous. Wilson had a decent OL last year that graded out as one of the best pass blocking and run blocking OL's in the NFL. He had a top 5 defense and run game which as pointed out earlier is a rookie's best friend. Luck on the other hand had a bottom 3rd defense in about every category and had a bottom 3rd running game topped off by what many would say was one of the worst OL's in the NFL last season.

 

[Breaker99]

You mean the 2 time Super Bowl winner?

Two time rapist?

 

[SonnyCID]

I've been saying all offseason and to this point in the season that although Kap is talented, he doesn't do well when things around him are not also doing well. He rides the wave of the team around him and doesn't actually lead them to victories.

When things are going well and they have a nice lead on an opponent, he's kissing his biceps and laughing all game on the sideline, then when things aren't going well he just pouts. Contrast this with a QB like Wilson or Luck, regardless of if things are going well or not they have their poker faces on and maintain the same composure. Alex Smith too... he has his flaws, but at this point in his career he has a steady hand.

His ability to go through progressions has been discussed at length. And it's not just the ability to actually go through them where his problem lies, it's that his mechanics and fundamentals get worse and worse the longer he is in the pocket.

 

[Stevein2012]

Not sure I buy that the Colts were the worst team talent wise in 2011. They weren't top 10 or anything but that's just how bad Painter and Collins were as QBs. Dan Orlovsky who was 0-8 at that point went 2-3 with that Colts team. Plus I thought they had a lot of roster change between 2011 and 2012 anyways (I may be wrong on that though). So many different variables that's why I hate when anybody uses the "he took a team that last year blah blah blah" arguments.

 

[Am I Blue Through it All?]

Obviously, I am thrilled we have Luck. Still think he has a paper mache O-line. Fortunately, I was unable to see the game Sunday. A small mercy. But he, like any other QB, can look pretty bad when he tries to force things. Reminds me a bit of a younger Peyton. Fortunately, he has superior physical skills and can do things with his legs that Peyton never could.

IMO, we will not find out how good this kid is until the Colts figure out how to get the right personnel to protect him. Not completely giving up on Trent Richardson either. When there are no holes or you are getting constantly hit in the backfield, it is kinda tough to make all that good of an impression.

 

[Breaker99]

OFortunately, I was unable to see the game Sunday. A small mercy.

I wish I had been so lucky.

 

[jakedog56]

yeah taking a 2-14 team to 11-5 while losing other players is a horrible argument. How easy do stats come taking over the worst team in football? I hate when people look at stats only say look. Fact is undeniable that Luck took over the worst team in football. & I am not a Colts or a Luck fan.

According to that logic, I guess that Alex Smith is a HOF QB also!

What about the teams that have reverted? Does the logic reverse for Griffin and Schaub? Do they get all the credit for their team's performance last year and lack of talent of an explanation this year? (Don't even try to use JJ Watt as a point when the Colts have Mathis who is the front runner for this years DPOY).

Luck is a very good young QB but the whole "he carried the team last year" arguement never held water in my opinion because I firmly believe that they tanked the year before to Luck to begin with.

 

[Am I Blue Through it All?]

I would say that the Colts looked like a reprise of the old Keystone Cops the season before Luck arrived. And to be really honest, there is still a dearth of talent on that team today. The Rams really exposed a lot of their weaknesses. Still a team in transformation.

While I am neither a Stanford or Wisconsin fan, I would say that that lil Wilson guy has tremendous talent. He also has a loaded roster and a team that will likely be in the Super Bowl. Luck, not so much. But for some pompous homer bastard to say that Wilson is clearly superior likely comes from some deep and dark childhood ******ation or similar tragedy. Time will tell, but when Luck actually has an offensive line you will see a player that lives up to all the hype and then some. Nyah nyah.

 

[Am I Blue Through it All?]

I would say that the Colts looked like a reprise of the old Keystone Cops the season before Luck arrived. And to be really honest, there is still a dearth of talent on that team today. The Rams really exposed a lot of their weaknesses. Still a team in transformation.

While I am neither a Stanford or Wisconsin fan, I would say that that lil Wilson guy has tremendous talent. He also has a loaded roster and a team that will likely be in the Super Bowl. Luck, not so much. But for some pompous homer bastard to say that Wilson is clearly superior likely comes from some deep and dark childhood ******ation or similar tragedy. Time will tell, but when Luck actually has an offensive line you will see a player that lives up to all the hype and then some. Nyah nyah.

Oh oh. I found a magic word. I sowwy.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

According to that logic, I guess that Alex Smith is a HOF QB also!

What about the teams that have reverted? Does the logic reverse for Griffin and Schaub? Do they get all the credit for their team's performance last year and lack of talent of an explanation this year? (Don't even try to use JJ Watt as a point when the Colts have Mathis who is the front runner for this years DPOY).

Luck is a very good young QB but the whole "he carried the team last year" arguement never held water in my opinion because I firmly believe that they tanked the year before to Luck to begin with.

no. The Chiefs have several probowl players on the team when they had their horrible record. Many looked at theem coming into the season as the most improved team this year. Everyone thought the colts were starting over & it would be a long while before they were significant again. The Chiefs are winning with a running game & defense. Alex is the bus driver of that team & suited well to do so. I would however make a good case for Andy Reid to be coach of the year. As I think that is the major difference of last years Chiefs & this years chiefs. That defense hasnt allowed more than 17 pts in any game this year. Thats pretty amazing.

 

[jakedog56]

no. The Chiefs have several probowl players on the team when they had their horrible record. Many looked at theem coming into the season as the most improved team this year. Everyone thought the colts were starting over & it would be a long while before they were significant again. The Chiefs are winning with a running game & defense. Alex is the bus driver of that team & suited well to do so. I would however make a good case for Andy Reid to be coach of the year. As I think that is the major difference of last years Chiefs & this years chiefs. That defense hasnt allowed more than 17 pts in any game this year. Thats pretty amazing.

The Colts also have several pro-bowl players and had a good coach throughout the situation. So it seems like rather selective logic from some angles.

Also, how about the Griffin situation? The team was excellent until he got injured and is a disaster this year while he is not 100% recovered and having to run an offense that is not entirely suited to his talents? What does that say about his talent?

Luck is good. Damn good. He makes some excellent throws, but I still disagree that he deserved rookie of the year last year. Griffin had a far superior year. And I will stand by my statement that the Colts are and were more talented than they were given credit for. They have had some good players even when they bottomed out (which was, again, in my opinion a tank job).

 

[Schmoopy1000]

The Colts also have several pro-bowl players and had a good coach throughout the situation. So it seems like rather selective logic from some angles.

Also, how about the Griffin situation? The team was excellent until he got injured and is a disaster this year while he is not 100% recovered and having to run an offense that is not entirely suited to his talents? What does that say about his talent?

Luck is good. Damn good. He makes some excellent throws, but I still disagree that he deserved rookie of the year last year. Griffin had a far superior year. And I will stand by my statement that the Colts are and were more talented than they were given credit for. They have had some good players even when they bottomed out (which was, again, in my opinion a tank job).

Well I wont argue whether they tanked on purpose or not the year before getting Luck since I dont follow the colts. I just know they were horrible that year & I dont think they had any probowlers. Then they lost a lot of vet players like mice from a sinking ship. Was surprised they were able to keep Wayne. I dont recall any probowlers that year from the colts.
As far as Griffen he was the odds on fav. for ROTY. He had a team to work with that year compared to Luck. I am cool with disagreeing as all three QBs mentioned had killer seasons. I just believe RGIII got the award from a media driven basis. I know he had a awesome season as well. I still think Luck is carrying that team, even though they have improved. Both the Hawks & the skins have running games while the Colts still dont. They solely rely on their QB.
The niners QB in my opinion isnt even in the conversation with the other three.
our opinions differ I can live with that. Again I am not a colts or Luck fan. This is just what I think.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The Colts also have several pro-bowl players and had a good coach throughout the situation. So it seems like rather selective logic from some angles.
QUOTE]

A bit weak if you are simply looking at it within the situations of the Colts in 2011 in comparison to the 2012 Chiefs.

The 2011 Colts had two pro bowlers: Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis

The 2012 Chiefs had six pro bowlers- with only Jamaal Charles not being a defensive/Special teams player. The others were Eric Berry SS, Derrick Johnson ILB, Justin Houston OLB, Tamba Hali OLB, and Dustin Colquitt the punter.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

The Colts also have several pro-bowl players and had a good coach throughout the situation. So it seems like rather selective logic from some angles.
QUOTE]

A bit weak if you are simply looking at it within the situations of the Colts in 2011 in comparison to the 2012 Chiefs.

The 2011 Colts had two pro bowlers: Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis

The 2012 Chiefs had six pro bowlers- with only Jamaal Charles not being a defensive/Special teams player. The others were Eric Berry SS, Derrick Johnson ILB, Justin Houston OLB, Tamba Hali OLB, and Dustin Colquitt the punter.

& Freeney wasnt around the next year. He was gone.

 

[SteelersPride]

lulz