Did A-Rod get snubbed?

[mr.hockey4242]

I love that Doziers not an All Star.

Couldn't care less who wins the Final Spot vote.

Just so long as I get to keep watching hockey cry.

You can watch written communication.

And identify crying with it?

Should probably put those skills to use big fella

 

[mr.hockey4242]

But I can see the kitty jealousy already.

Somehow this completely average(at best) Twins team is still in front of the kitties. Lead by Smitty fav Brian Dozier and Tommy "brings the heat" Milone all while the young talent is continually being cycled from minors to majors to DL to minors to majors back to minors by its incompetent GM. Or maybe it's being behind a team that has resorted to Eduardo Escobar at DH and Escobar/Santana(two SS) as 2/3s of its OF in games(including CF).

Ahhh no I know what it is...the Twins won their 44th game today...meaning that futility record is still all for the Tigers. But hey, at least your trending in the right direction???

 

[broncosmitty]

Keep 'em comin'!

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Facts eventually run out....

Can't spew nonsense 100% like you and Dougy

 

[Fountain City Blues]

O boy please hold with me for this one.

1. Rigid views? Stating a guy literally everyone had in the game should be in the game?

2. A comparison between Dozier and Kipnis? No it was a poll for who should start the All Star game which included Infante and Altuve...basically to show that the two best options had no shot. And I clearly stated "my homer" pick would be Dozier. You are really sounding like Doug now...selectively reading it appears to patch a very shoddy argument.

3. Dozier vs Kipnis is a better argument than Dozier vs Kiermeir lol. Dozier does everything better than Kipnis except hit for average and thus OBP(though they walk at a very similar rate). Defense they are both very, very good. Really pick and choose.

4. Now we got Kiermeir. The two things Kipnis beats Dozier in? Average and OBP...Kiemeier as a mainly lead off guy has a STUNNING .289 OBP with his .255 average of no power. Yeah, so basically a slightly better Omar infante across the board and you compared him to Dozier lol.

5. RBI can be overrated no doubt and Dozier actually is still a very blah "producers"(In clutch spots like RISP) but 42-16? That is ASTRONOMICAL. You win games by scoring more than the other team. Dozier has a +25 advantage in both runs scored and RBI.

6. I'm aware Kiermeir rates out as a great defender....but I ain't clamoring for Aaron HIcks anytime soon.

At this point you've gotten it to me just being flat out rattled you brought up Kevin Keirmeier as a talking point with Dozier...and laughed off Dozier/Kipnis.

Just not smart on any level.

Hmm, defensive metrics are the main reason 'K-money' has such a high fWar. You think I didn't know he had a less than impressive OBP prior to mentioning him; or better yet that I didn't care all that much.

The fact you put Aaron Hicks and Kiermeir in the same sentence defensively pretty much immediately tells me you took absolutely no effort to look up said numbers. Which is fine up to a point, but when you accuse people of what you did, then well, that's not too smart. Can write that down for the Infante comparison as well. I should know, I make fun of him being in the "500 club" almost daily...

By minimal utility for RBI, I mean so irrelevant that I only acknowledge RBI because it documents an event. Kind of like a putout. I am not going to even begin to explain how said clutch isn't even a repeatable skill of its own, mainly because I said I'll politely agree to disagree. I am not going to argue this simply because it would be two ships passing each other.

Polls are inevitably comparisons. In fact, that's the whole point of polls last I checked- of opinions that is.

Considering you cannot handle me telling there are several just as good, if not better players, than Dozier not making the ASG just tells me that it is quite rigid.

Kipnis has a wRC+ of 159- Dozier is at 134. Kipnis even rates as a better defender and baserunner. Kipnis is a legit MVP candidate for a reason.

Somehow, I am the one acting like Doug...

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Also, this thread is still off in outer space somewhere. ( I still fail to see how the OP finds it a joke he's not in the final vote, but whatever)

 

[ericd7633]

Also, this thread is still off in outer space somewhere. ( I still fail to see how the OP finds it a joke he's not in the final vote, but whatever)

It's a joke that Moustakas is on the final vote ahead of A-Rod.

A-Rod: .284/.390/.513/.902; 149 OPS+, 139 TB, 45 Runs, 16 HR's, 47 RBI's, 2.3oWAR
Moustakas: .301/.357/.436/.793; 119 OPS+, 126 TB, 39 Runs, 7 HR's, 31 RBI's, 2.2oWAR

The only thing Moustakas does better is play defense(who gives a shit, it's an all-star game) and strikes out less.

 

[navamind]

Seriously, no one fucking cares about RBIs anymore.

 

[ericd7633]

Seriously, no one fucking cares about RBIs anymore.

Never said I did. Just listed the numbers.

 

[navamind]

Never said I did. Just listed the numbers.

Not you. Was referring to mrhockey.

 

[navamind]

As for Betts, he's batted .283/.336/.463 (119 OPS+) while playing great defense in center. Betts has been killing it the last month or so and ranks as one of the best outfielders in the AL going by both WARs.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

It's a joke that Moustakas is on the final vote ahead of A-Rod.

A-Rod: .284/.390/.513/.902; 149 OPS+, 139 TB, 45 Runs, 16 HR's, 47 RBI's, 2.3oWAR
Moustakas: .301/.357/.436/.793; 119 OPS+, 126 TB, 39 Runs, 7 HR's, 31 RBI's, 2.2oWAR

The only thing Moustakas does better is play defense(who gives a shit, it's an all-star game) and strikes out less.

Hmmm, it's an all star game supposedly for game 7, no? Then Defense does in fact matter. Inconvienent truth. If you insist on stats mattering, then you can't ignore defense. Last I checked stars and defense are not mutually exclusive. Ozzie Smith is a HOF'er, not a generic player, for very good reason.

 

[DHoey]

As for Betts, he's batted .283/.336/.463 (119 OPS+) while playing great defense in center. Betts has been killing it the last month or so and ranks as one of the best outfielders in the AL going by both WARs.

Kevin Pillar is as good as Betts. But if you have to pick a Red Sock, I'd take Hanley over Betts or Holt

 

[ericd7633]

Hmmm, it's an all star game supposedly for game 7, no? Then Defense does in fact matter. Inconvienent truth. If you insist on stats mattering, then you can't ignore defense. Last I checked stars and defense are not mutually exclusive. Ozzie Smith is a HOF'er, not a generic player, for very good reason.

If Moustakas does make it, he'll play one, two innings tops in the field. He may not even get a ball hit his direction. Defense is overrated especially in an All-Star game format. Hell Detroit sucks at defense every year and they make the playoffs.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Kevin Pillar is as good as Betts. But if you have to pick a Red Sock, I'd take Hanley over Betts or Holt

Not based on performance. Betts has been better by a good amount this year (and last year as well if you want to go back).

 

[navamind]

Kevin Pillar is as good as Betts. But if you have to pick a Red Sock, I'd take Hanley over Betts or Holt

Pillar's quietly having a very good year. Seems to make a great play almost every time the Sox play the Jays.

 

[DHoey]

Not based on performance. Betts has been better by a good amount this year (and last year as well if you want to go back).

Yes, based on performance they are damn near equal. I bet if you could make of graph of "performance", their respective graphs would intertwine throughout the season.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

If Moustakas does make it, he'll play one, two innings tops in the field. He may not even get a ball hit his direction. Defense is overrated especially in an All-Star game format. Hell Detroit sucks at defense every year and they make the playoffs.

Yet we ignore counter examples? Cardinals, anyone? Giants? Orioles recently? Detroit also had an elite rotation to go with the elite offense. Without the rotation, they'd pretty much just be the Blue Jays. Defense really isn't as overrated as you think. An N=1 argument really doesn't hold water because it lacks uniqueness.

Can just as easily say A-Rod will get nothing to hit, and that the difference in a n=1 between 1-2 AB's of Sandy Leon and Barry Bonds is microscopic, but that's a whole different can of worms.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Yes, based on performance they are damn near equal. I bet if you could make of graph of "performance", their respective graphs would intertwine throughout the season.

Betts' OPS being more than 70 points higher tells me they're not near equal. For what it's worth this early on in the season, Betts has a significantly higher WAR also.

They might have a similar amount of RBIs, but Betts hits much better with runners on and RISP...Betts has a batting average 52 points higher w/RISP and an OPS over 100 points higher. They're close in RBIs because Pillar's had a lot more RBI opportunities (Pillar's had 51 more runners on base in his plate appearances this year than Betts has).

 

[ericd7633]

Yet we ignore counter examples? Cardinals, anyone? Giants? Orioles recently? Detroit also had an elite rotation to go with the elite offense. Without the rotation, they'd pretty much just be the Blue Jays. Defense really isn't as overrated as you think. An N=1 argument really doesn't hold water because it lacks uniqueness.

Can just as easily say A-Rod will get nothing to hit, and that the difference in a n=1 between 1-2 AB's of Sandy Leon and Barry Bonds is microscopic, but that's a whole different can of worms.

Alright then you can field an outfield with Kiermaier, Pillar and Betts and I'll take Trout, Harper and McCutchen to see which team is better.

If everything is equal, sure take the better defender, but A-Rod and Moustakas' numbers aren't really that close.