Defensive fixes vs. SM's known philosophy

[Stymietee]

Nearly one year ago as we approached the NFL draft, these boards were filled with suggestion, debates and anticipatory moves that our GM could, would and should make towards fixing our defense. SM however stuck to his beliefs and it seems took the best player available on his big board. There were a couple of defensive guys taken but none that addressed our most glaring weaknesses.

Do you believe that another draft where he takes non defensive players because they are according to him the BPA is the way to go.....OR......he skip those guys and go for positions of need on defense?

 

[kbso83432]

This team needs so much on defense, that I think there will be value and need where we pick. DE, NT, MLB, FS.

 

[ehb5]

I don't think people will be happy if he takes a qb, wr, OL, or TE round one and I cant blame em. I love BPA. But it's hard to believe there won't be a player available whose close to the bpa on defense. And if there isn't I think we'd all be fine with a trade down. I just don't see what adding to this offense would give us. That defense NEED some playmakers.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

I share a similar concern as ehb5. Especially with Gruden suggesting he'll re-sign leaders over talent.
It is fair to think Scott drafts Djax's replacement, and hopes Doctson takes on the Garcon role.
Then he may look for the best defensive player in the 2nd round.
I don't really believe the organization thinks that the defense is a problem, or that they can't hit on talent in 4th, 5th, etc.

For instance, based on potential I probably would have taken Leonard Williams over Scherff.
It was a glaring need and with the offensive line coach, I do believe a less talented RT would have filled in at
RG successfully. But Scherff has played very well and has contributed to RBs, NOBODY wanted actually looking good when given touches.

 

[Stymietee]

I share a similar concern as ehb5. Especially with Gruden suggesting he'll re-sign leaders over talent.
It is fair to think Scott drafts Djax's replacement, and hopes Doctson takes on the Garcon role.
Then he may look for the best defensive player in the 2nd round.
I don't really believe the organization thinks that the defense is a problem, or that they can't hit on talent in 4th, 5th, etc.

For instance, based on potential I probably would have taken Leonard Williams over Scherff.
It was a glaring need and with the offensive line coach, I do believe a less talented RT would have filled in at
RG successfully. But Scherff has played very well and has contributed to RBs, NOBODY wanted actually looking good when given touches.

I'm going to say this with all due humility.....Please.....please.....please you guys, and you know who you are, please don't start in on that whole Williams v Schreff thing again!! Please, NOooooooooooooooo!

 

[Skin'EmAll]

My fault Sty! I left a few years ago around this time. I forgot it doesn't take much to set it off during a disappointing off-season, lol.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

bpa is the best way to go u do not take the 4 th best dt at 17 when you can get example the best cb the best ilb at 17

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

i belive you draft bpa and if you still need a cb bring 20 of them mutha fuckers at camps one will be good

 

[duke1861]

bpa is the best way to go u do not take the 4 th best dt at 17 when you can get example the best cb the best ilb at 17

I just don't agree with the BPA mentality. This isn't the NBA or MLB where you literally draft the best player on the board. Drafting the BPA is a good way to go when you are either a bottom 5 team or a top 5 team. The vast majority of the league would probably take the BPA at a position of need.

Drafting the BPA is just collecting talent and not building a team. Again, its a great philosophy in MLB and the NBA to certain extent. If we do not address DL in FA and we do the same thing we did in the 2016 draft and take BPA, then SM should be fired. Common sense tells you that you must build the trenches first and if SM doesn't understand that, then he needs to go.

I do think that he understands that and will not make the same mistake twice. I think he knows he made a big mistake and will give the DLine and the defense some much needed attention this offseason.

 

[j_y19]

I think he sticks with his BPA strategy, but don't be surprised if he structures a trade to get the defensive stud we need that will be his BPA at the time.

 

[duke1861]

I think he sticks with his BPA strategy, but don't be surprised if he structures a trade to get the defensive stud we need that will be his BPA at the time.

You are probably right.

I just hope that he understands that our defense is literally one of the worst in the NFL but its fixable. We have tons of cap room to address areas of need. That being said, he hasn't really hit on many free agents in his tenure here. A blind man could see the disaster our defense was this year.

The problem with drafting the BPA is that you will eventually neglect glaring areas of need. 2016 was a perfect example of this and SM even said that the DLinemen they wanted were all recently taken when they went to draft. Again, we don't need to walk out of the draft with 5 QBs because they were the BPA when it came time to pick. You never over-reach but surely you can take a player that you feel good about from one of four positions that you have glaring holes at.

Again, just my thoughts. If I was the Patriots, I would literally take the BPA every pick as you can afford to do so. Same with the Browns, they literally need everything at this point.

 

[j_y19]

You are probably right.

I just hope that he understands that our defense is literally one of the worst in the NFL but its fixable. We have tons of cap room to address areas of need. That being said, he hasn't really hit on many free agents in his tenure here. A blind man could see the disaster our defense was this year.

The problem with drafting the BPA is that you will eventually neglect glaring areas of need. 2016 was a perfect example of this and SM even said that the DLinemen they wanted were all recently taken when they went to draft. Again, we don't need to walk out of the draft with 5 QBs because they were the BPA when it came time to pick. You never over-reach but surely you can take a player that you feel good about from one of four positions that you have glaring holes at.

Again, just my thoughts. If I was the Patriots, I would literally take the BPA every pick as you can afford to do so. Same with the Browns, they literally need everything at this point.

Of course he knows our defense is one of the worst, hell we all know that. And Im sure he is aware of the money we have to spend. I'm quite confident Defense will be a focus of not only the draft, but of FA. I believe the whole KC dilemma will be solved very early. And I think one of our FA WRs will be resigned (probably not both). He will then turn his attention to the defense. Most of the rest of the resources will be spent on that side of the ball, with the exception of maybe a mid to late pick at RB and/or OG. Oh, BTW, that trade I suggested may be a trade back to land that Defensive player he wants at the slot he feels comfortable taking him.

 

[duke1861]

Of course he knows our defense is one of the worst, hell we all know that. And Im sure he is aware of the money we have to spend. I'm quite confident Defense will be a focus of not only the draft, but of FA. I believe the whole KC dilemma will be solved very early. And I think one of our FA WRs will be resigned (probably not both). He will then turn his attention to the defense. Most of the rest of the resources will be spent on that side of the ball, with the exception of maybe a mid to late pick at RB and/or OG. Oh, BTW, that trade I suggested may be a trade back to land that Defensive player he wants at the slot he feels comfortable taking him.

I totally agree with the KC thoughts. I think posters are over-thinking this as its really a no-brainer to be honest with you.

I agree with everything you said. This is a great free agent class with a lot of good tier 2 and tier 3 players available. I think we bounce back from the poor 2016 draft and we go into 2017 with more speed and talent all around.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

I will be shocked if he doesn't address the defensive at #17. There should be a S, ILB, CB, DT that will make the same or better impact Cravens made when healthy. Now in the 2nd round....who knows, lol!

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Is this a good place for me to bring up Josh Norman? By the way his cap hit is $20,000,000 next year, keep that in mind as we discuss the quarterback's salary. How can anybody claim he is a $20 million player? He is solid, clearly the best we have, but convince me he is a gake changing difference maker that shouild command a $20 million cap hit.

Once again he got beaten, committted stupid ass penaltires (laughing about it after is just so endearing) and generally acted like an assclown on Saturday and nobody seems to have noticed. All you guys seem to want to talk about is Kirk's contract. I am so sick and tired of this Norman/OBJ bullshit, it detracts from the game. I mean if Norman actual outplayed OBJ it would be different but sadly that never seems to be the case

He has dropped more picks than he has caught, his 19 total penalties this season not only led the league it tied for the second most by an individual player since 2009

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Is this a good place for me to bring up Josh Norman? By the way his cap hit is $20,000,000 next year, keep that in mind as we discuss the quarterback's salary. How can anybody claim he is a $20 million player? He is solid, clearly the best we have, but convince me he is a gake changing difference maker that shouild command a $20 million cap hit.

Once again he got beaten, committted stupid ass penaltires (laughing about it after is just so endearing) and generally acted like an assclown on Saturday and nobody seems to have noticed. All you guys seem to want to talk about is Kirk's contract. I am so sick and tired of this Norman/OBJ bullshit, it detracts from the game. I mean if Norman actual outplayed OBJ it would be different but sadly that never seems to be the case

He has dropped more picks than he has caught, his 19 total penalties this season not only led the league it tied for the second most by an individual player since 2009

Hard to say how much Norman is worth & you are generally going to overpay in these type of situations. That being said I believe that Norman has been & will continue to be a major contributor. Yes - he needs to tone it down, be a little less vocal & avoid the stupid penalties. However - his coverage skills and overall defensive prowess are some of the best in the league.

He just appears to be much worse because of the poor supporting cast around him. If they had a somewhat better (consistent) pass rush both Norman & Breeland would look like much better players. Having some safety help would also do wonders. Oh yeah - a different D coordinator might help.

I would not give up on this guy just yet. As for the cap hit - water under the bridge & even with a big contract for Cousins this team will still have lots of cap room.

 

[j_y19]

Is this a good place for me to bring up Josh Norman? By the way his cap hit is $20,000,000 next year, keep that in mind as we discuss the quarterback's salary. How can anybody claim he is a $20 million player? He is solid, clearly the best we have, but convince me he is a gake changing difference maker that shouild command a $20 million cap hit.

Once again he got beaten, committted stupid ass penaltires (laughing about it after is just so endearing) and generally acted like an assclown on Saturday and nobody seems to have noticed. All you guys seem to want to talk about is Kirk's contract. I am so sick and tired of this Norman/OBJ bullshit, it detracts from the game. I mean if Norman actual outplayed OBJ it would be different but sadly that never seems to be the case

He has dropped more picks than he has caught, his 19 total penalties this season not only led the league it tied for the second most by an individual player since 2009

Is Norman worth $20M? Probably not. But its similar to the KC dilemma. Don't create another hole that you have to fill in a year where money isn't the issue. Keep the focus on issues that we really need to address. DL, ILB, S, OG/C and RB. Maybe they can restructure him to alleviate some of that hit this year, but I wouldn't make it a major initiative this offseason.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I agree they can't afford to lose the only consistant player they have in the secondary. But as I read the hate directed at Kirk around the internet as people put a number on his value it amazes me how Norman has been pretty much given a pass for acting like an ass and underperforming his contract. And yes for $20 million I expect better coverage, when has he shut down a star receiver the way great corners do at least occasionally? And I don't want to hear about his numbers against Dez, when it was 3rd and 5 we saw who won. Sorry for this much cap space I expect more game changing plays. And so should you.

Again if you are going to talk the talk and make it all about you then you need to make more plays occasionally take OBJ out of the game. He probably has as many penalties as he has pass breakups

Edit: Well I'll be damned, I was right. 19 penalties and 19 passes defended. Fuck that.

Josh Norman: Game Logs at NFL.com

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I agree they can't afford to lose the only consistant player they have in the secondary. But as I read the hate directed at Kirk around the internet as people put a number on his value it amazes me how Norman has been pretty much given a pass for acting like an ass and underperforming his contract. And yes for $20 million I expect better coverage, when has he shut down a star receiver the way great corners do at least occasionally? And I don't want to hear about his numbers against Dez, when it was 3rd and 5 we saw who won. Sorry for this much cap space I expect more game changing plays. And so should you.

Again if you are going to talk the talk and make it all about you then you need to make more plays occasionally take OBJ out of the game. He probably has as many penalties as he has pass breakups

Edit: Well I'll be damned, I was right. 19 penalties and 19 passes defended. Fuck that.

Josh Norman: Game Logs at NFL.com

A little misleading. Granted - Norman can cut down on the penalties & I believe that he will. However - the # of passes defended are less partially because he was not used correctly and/or passes being directed elsewhere due to the poor play of the rest of the secondary. Not saying that there is not room for improvement, but it is not as bad as the stats that you are showing.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

It also doesn't help that quite often the opposing QB has 7/8+ seconds to throw the ball. No CB can cover a WR - let alone an elite WR - for that long - they will get open.