Defensive coordinators on the market

[Sharkinva]

Hmmmm

Wade= tainted


I would not be amused.

 

[Stymietee]

Maaaaan, I NEVER thought I'd say this but, Barry should not be fired.
It appears he didn't know what to call against 3rd and long, and how to handle or end games with pressure.
Also with the exception of Kerrigan, Baker and Norman...all other players on defense should be considered average.
Some would not even start on other teams.
He did have a few games like the Giants and Vikings games where the defense showed up and won the game.
Also Whitner got cut from the browns and became our starter so he is still working on decision making too.

I have been saying this all along, the DC can call any set that he wants but without the players who have the abilities to EFFECTIVELY carry it out there's very little that he can do. I also agree with you that Baker and Norman kind of sums up what we have on defense that would start elsewhere or still be in the league at all. In as much as Kerrigan goes, despite making the Pro-bowl this year, from my perspective and the position that he plays there is not enough coming from him. I see him as a very good backup....if this organization ever get serious about getting top level players.

 

[gkekoa]

RK...not a legit starter? WTF

 

[j_y19]

RK...not a legit starter? WTF

Yeah, I chuckled at that one, also. He starts on almost any team in the league. While he isn't elite (gets burned on play action rollouts to his side way too much), he is still very solid. Ever DC that plays the Skins has to game plan specifically for him.

 

[skinsdad62]

Yeah. Dont get that either

 

[Stymietee]

RK...not a legit starter? WTF

On this team, yes, but consider what we have in relation to what we wish we had. I know it's hard to imagine but think of it this way, if he's second rotation, what does the starter look like!

 

[Sharkinva]

IM just going to warn ya'll, once Sty has determined that a player isnt really a starter if it werent for him being on the Redskins roster, he hangs onto that opinion of the guy like a Pitbull with a Sunday roast in its jaws....

 

[kbso83432]

Back up the truck Dan!

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

its because when we add players we had 2nd stringers at a young age and hope they breakout some work out garcon and some dont brandon floyd but this is what you all want not me i want to draft good plus sign some good free agents not 2nd stringers and hope they break out coach the truth sourrier has spoken

 

[BeaReylo]

I like Rex...I just don't know about the personality coming to DC. Great defensive mi d.

Considering how his defensive units have been declining every year I would pass.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.buff...ills-defense?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

 

[gkekoa]

Can somebody name a team RK does not start on?

 

[Breed]

On this team, yes, but consider what we have in relation to what we wish we had. I know it's hard to imagine but think of it this way, if he's second rotation, what does the starter look like!

What we wish we had, what most fan probably wishes they had on their team when it comes to pass rushing is one thing. And that one thing lives somewhere in South Park's Imagination Land or has already been enshined in the Hall of Fame.

If you would you like to see more consistency from RK I can get on-board with that. And even that is probably an argument that can be made about 90% of all pass rushing OLBs.

The facts are that in the last 3 years RK has 34 sacks with one game pending. That's NFL starter, top 10 pass rusher territory. Breaking down season to season, His 13.5 sacks in 2014 was 7th most in the league. His 9.5 sacks in 2015 was 19th most in the league and I think he was dealing with naggging injuries, but even if he wasn't and fell off a bit. In 2016 his 11 sacks this year are good once aqain for 7th most in the league at present. He's led the league in forcing fumbles at least once in the last 3 years and has 19 forced fumbles over his career.

If someone were say RK is not a top tier pass rushing OLB in the mold of Watt or Mack...OK. You'll get no argument from me. But to say he's not on the same tier with OLBs taking up spots 3 through 10, Well, lets say I'd disagree with that. And to claim he's not even in slots 11 through 32 except for the Redskins.....well, that's when I have to wonder if there's some ulterior motives involved or if the person making that assessment simply dislikes RK.

 

[Stymietee]

What we wish we had, what most fan probably wishes they had on their team when it comes to pass rushing is one thing. And that one thing lives somewhere in South Park's Imagination Land or has already been enshined in the Hall of Fame.

If you would you like to see more consistency from RK I can get on-board with that. And even that is probably an argument that can be made about 90% of all pass rushing OLBs.

The facts are that in the last 3 years RK has 34 sacks with one game pending. That's NFL starter, top 10 pass rusher territory. Breaking down season to season, His 13.5 sacks in 2014 was 7th most in the league. His 9.5 sacks in 2015 was 19th most in the league and I think he was dealing with naggging injuries, but even if he wasn't and fell off a bit. In 2016 his 11 sacks this year are good once aqain for 7th most in the league at present. He's led the league in forcing fumbles at least once in the last 3 years and has 19 forced fumbles over his career.

If someone were say RK is not a top tier pass rushing OLB in the mold of Watt or Mack...OK. You'll get no argument from me. But to say he's not on the same tier with OLBs taking up spots 3 through 10, Well, lets say I'd disagree with that. And to claim he's not even in slots 11 through 32 except for the Redskins.....well, that's when I have to wonder if there's some ulterior motives involved or if the person making that assessment simply dislikes RK.

There is absolutely no animus against RK at all here, just the realization that I've seen better and like any follower of the game believe that my team can get better even at OLB in time. No doubt he's been a very good player for us, hell, I'll even grant that those 36 sacks that you mention are decent over that three year span, but think about that for a moment. This guy gives us on average 1 sack per game. That is not dominance and once broken down beyond that he's barely impactful for long stretches during games. The most telling stat is not an actual stat but comes when you look at the many third and long situations that this team gave up, primarily because little or no pressure on the QB. Love the guy when he makes a play, but what's needed here beyond the glaring mistakes that he makes is a lot more consistency.

Some day loyal followers of this team will come to realize that a team with mostly average, a couple of pretty good and maybe one or two very good players just doesn't cut it in the NFL. Despite what anyone says, with the possible exception of Norman, and I say possible there too, WE HAVE NO IMPACTFUL DIFFERENCE MAKERS ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL. Sure the argument can be made that upgrading here and there makes others better, but that is EXACTLY my point....Who are our guys that makes others better? Here's a hint, we don't have guys like that and believe it or not that includes Ryan Kerrigan!

 

[gkekoa]

So what team would RK not start?

 

[Breed]

@Stymietee

After reading your last post. I now truly believe you harbor no ill will towards RK and I apologize for insinuating such. I now think you believe somer OLBs are better than they really are.

Llook at the last 3 years of those you consider legitimate sack masters. Watt I think has 40.5 and surely totals more had he stayed injury-free, I'll say more than a sack per game, but after him. No player would come up with a sack per game. Von Miller has 38.5 the last 3 years. Khalil Mack has 30 sacks the last 3 years. And over those same 3 years RK has forced 9 fumbles, Mack has forced 8 fumbles and Miller has forced 7 fumbles.

Making others better can imo be a slippery slope argument. I think at times people use it falsely, though not in a purposeful way, to uplift the player they are lauding. Of the 4 players I've mentioned in this thread. Its a no brainer that both Watt and Miller play on significantly better defenses. Houston w/o Watt for much of the year is the NFL's #1 defense far as giving up total yardage. Denver is 6th and that's with giving up more rushing yards per game than the Skins. Only Oakland's def, ranked 27th is on par with the Skins def ranked 29th.

The thing that really looped me far as what you said. Was it would be better if the Skins acquired a stud OLB and make RK a 2nd team player. If Watt or Miller or Mack or any other OLB you consider elite were a Redskin, RK would still be a starter and no team, at least imo, has 2 OLBs good enough to relegate RK to a 2nd team player.

Far as impact plays. I know Mack had a couple weeks in a row of making huge game sealing plays in the 4th quarter. Miller sealed a victoy earlier in the year with a sack n strip that OLB Shane Ray scooped and scored on to shut the door onthat vicory. Wasn't it an RK sack n strip of Wentz with Murph recovering the fumble to seal a victory against Philly?

I'm not claiming RK is perfect. I think too many times he runs himself outta running plays to his side of the field. Is that by design though or is that RK thinking sack too much? I can't say reallly. I know I won't change your mind on RK, but IMO, he's a legit starter regardless of team. He might not be the #1 de facto pass rushing OLB on every team in the NFL, but he'd be starter on those teams and he'd be the #1 de facto pass rushing OLB on quite a few teams.

 

[Stymietee]

@Stymietee

After reading your last post. I now truly believe you harbor no ill will towards RK and I apologize for insinuating such. I now think you believe somer OLBs are better than they really are.

Llook at the last 3 years of those you consider legitimate sack masters. Watt I think has 40.5 and surely totals more had he stayed injury-free, I'll say more than a sack per game, but after him. No player would come up with a sack per game. Von Miller has 38.5 the last 3 years. Khalil Mack has 30 sacks the last 3 years. And over those same 3 years RK has forced 9 fumbles, Mack has forced 8 fumbles and Miller has forced 7 fumbles.

Making others better can imo be a slippery slope argument. I think at times people use it falsely, though not in a purposeful way, to uplift the player they are lauding. Of the 4 players I've mentioned in this thread. Its a no brainer that both Watt and Miller play on significantly better defenses. Houston w/o Watt for much of the year is the NFL's #1 defense far as giving up total yardage. Denver is 6th and that's with giving up more rushing yards per game than the Skins. Only Oakland's def, ranked 27th is on par with the Skins def ranked 29th.

The thing that really looped me far as what you said. Was it would be better if the Skins acquired a stud OLB and make RK a 2nd team player. If Watt or Miller or Mack or any other OLB you consider elite were a Redskin, RK would still be a starter and no team, at least imo, has 2 OLBs good enough to relegate RK to a 2nd team player.

Far as impact plays. I know Mack had a couple weeks in a row of making huge game sealing plays in the 4th quarter. Miller sealed a victoy earlier in the year with a sack n strip that OLB Shane Ray scooped and scored on to shut the door onthat vicory. Wasn't it an RK sack n strip of Wentz with Murph recovering the fumble to seal a victory against Philly?

I'm not claiming RK is perfect. I think too many times he runs himself outta running plays to his side of the field. Is that by design though or is that RK thinking sack too much? I can't say reallly. I know I won't change your mind on RK, but IMO, he's a legit starter regardless of team. He might not be the #1 de facto pass rushing OLB on every team in the NFL, but he'd be starter on those teams and he'd be the #1 de facto pass rushing OLB on quite a few teams.

Just so that I'm clear here, the NFL has gone from a league in which almost every team had several diffrence making players on defense, even the bad ones, to a league that seems only to have a handful of guys spread out over the league in that same capacity, and we should be happy with that because IYO we have one of them?
Generally speaking, some people will never understand that what we are now seeing is a vastly watered down version of the game. Mostly likely, it is a generational thing, but, specific to me, it's very difficult to watch because I focus on where the game is won and lost....Line play. For me it is increasingly difficult to watch a guy purposely or by design not have the football acumen to adjust his play to what's happening to and around him on the field. Hell, I would even force myself to attempt to be satisfied if once in a while he chased down a guy who attempted to go around him, how about a QB or two as well?

So I guess I'll just have to concede to your stating that he is what you say that he is, comparatively speaking and by today's standards. I'm a very hard fella, set in my old ways to be sure, but forgive me for having seen excellence and unwilling to apply that label to good or pretty good. BTW: I really don't live in the past, I know times and the game has changed but like I've stated many times before, this iteration of the NFL, is increasingly more difficult for me to watch. In fact, beyond our games, there are zero games that I have watched in full and only four that I've seen second half or 4th quarters of.

 

[j_y19]

I echo Breed's post. RK is a very good player and has made plenty of impact plays since being here. I won't even go into all of them, but there have been as many as most OLBs in the league not named Miller. He is not perfect, he does tend to bite on the play action roll out to his side too often. He needs to recognize on those plays (where he usually is not even blocked), that they are setting him up by getting him to bite inside. But as Breed points out, this may be the scheme being called.

As for does he make his teammates better, well, all you can say is look at the number of plays where he is double teamed while still applying significant pressure and forcing the QB into others arms. If we had any type of talent next to him, he could easily have 3-5 more sacks/year. He is double teamed on the vast majority of obvious passing plays.

He is a starter on every team in this league.

 

[j_y19]

Just so that I'm clear here, the NFL has gone from a league in which almost every team had several diffrence making players on defense, even the bad ones, to a league that seems only to have a handful of guys spread out over the league in that same capacity, and we should be happy with that because IYO we have one of them?
Generally speaking, some people will never understand that what we are now seeing is a vastly watered down version of the game. Mostly likely, it is a generational thing, but, specific to me, it's very difficult to watch because I focus on where the game is won and lost....Line play. For me it is increasingly difficult to watch a guy purposely or by design not have the football acumen to adjust his play to what's happening to and around him on the field. Hell, I would even force myself to attempt to be satisfied if once in a while he chased down a guy who attempted to go around him, how about a QB or two as well?

So I guess I'll just have to concede to your stating that he is what you say that he is, comparatively speaking and by today's standards. I'm a very hard fella, set in my old ways to be sure, but forgive me for having seen excellence and unwilling to apply that label to good or pretty good. BTW: I really don't live in the past, I know times and the game has changed but like I've stated many times before, this iteration of the NFL, is increasingly more difficult for me to watch. In fact, beyond our games, there are zero games that I have watched in full and only four that I've seen second half or 4th quarters of.

Lets face it, the League has set it up so that all the advantages go to the offense. This is as much a reason why you don't see the dominant defenders anymore. Rules don't allow for it. The league has determined that fans like watching high scoring games so they enact rules to limit defenses.

And, yes, we should be happy that we do have a couple of impact players on defense because, as you point out, some teams have none. But too be happy doesn't mean you stop trying to improve.

 

[Stymietee]

So what team would RK not start?

It's a rather inane question..... in a watered down version of the NFL such as it is, the answer is obvious. Not everyone agrees with the league's decision to change the product in favor of the offense. There are at least a couple of generations from which there are followers of the game that H.A.T.E. what's been done to it and subsequently, the lack of outstanding defensive play.

 

[j_y19]

It's a rather inane question..... in a watered down version of the NFL such as it is, the answer is obvious. Not everyone agrees with the league's decision to change the product in favor of the offense. There are at least a couple of generations from which there are followers of the game that H.A.T.E. what's been done to it and subsequently, the lack of outstanding defensive play.

Its not inane when you state that he is nothing more than a very good back up in this league. So the question is pertinent. BTW, count me as one that hates most of the rules changes.