Deadline to use the franchise tag tommorow?

[NinerSickness]

Unless I'm understanding this incorrectly, teams have through tommorow to use the franchise tag.

I actually would have liked to use the tag on Dashon Goldson 1 more time so he can play SS (with Whitner being cut). It looks like that's not gonna happen...

Here's an idea nobody's mentioned: the franchise tag on TEs is 6 million. The TE class in the draft about as deep as a puddle. Maybe 6 million would be worth keeping Walker for 1 more year while the Niners look for his replacement. The Niners can clear that much space by cutting Haralson & Goodwin (I think).

The advantage would be not having to pay for a long-term deal for a backup TE (who's kind of a pseudo-starter), and the Niners would have time to look for / draft / trade for his replacement. And even after he played under the tag, he'd be 30 years old. Not exactly ancient for a TE, but that might limit the kind of teams who would want to sign him.

I'm not necessarily endorsing this idea; I'm just throwing it out there. The Niners might actually end up getting a reasonable long-term deal done with him. I'd much rather draft Tyler Eifert, but I think he's going to be a top 20 pick (too high) because of the lack of depth at TE this year. And there aren't really any WRs in the draft like Walker was in college (of whom I know).

 

[NinerSickness]

Here's another idea just to throw out there: draft Terron Armstead to play TE. Even at 306 pounds he's as fast as a lot of starting TEs in the NFL. Of course he would probably have to shed some weight (I always like when NFL players slim down; I don't see any reason he couldn't get down to like 285), and he would need all kinds of work running routes & stuff, but he sure as hell could block with his size, experience at OL and 34+ arms.

Haven't heard how high / low he's supposed to go though.

 

[Dodub]

Here's another idea just to throw out there: draft Terron Armstead to play TE. Even at 306 pounds he's as fast as a lot of starting TEs in the NFL. Of course he would probably have to shed some weight (I always like when NFL players slim down; I don't see any reason he couldn't get down to like 285), and he would need all kinds of work running routes & stuff, but he sure as hell could block with his size, experience at OL and 34+ arms.

Haven't heard how high / low he's supposed to go though.

What? This is absolutely 100% not going to happen. You gotta stop looking at measurables man, just because a guy can move doesn't mean he can play TE. There is soooo much more that goes into it.

Lets not forget that this is one of the fastest rising OLT prospects in the entire draft after he blew scouts away in the bowls and combine.

 

[NinerSickness]

What? This is absolutely 100% not going to happen. You gotta stop looking at measurables man, just because a guy can move doesn't mean he can play TE. There is soooo much more that goes into it.

Lets not forget that this is one of the fastest rising OLT prospects in the entire draft after he blew scouts away in the bowls and combine.

That's why I said I didn't know how high / low he'd go; I didn't see a single Arkansas-Pinebluff game this year (or ever), so measureables are all I have on which to go with this guy. Did YOU see him play? And where are you hearing that he's one of the fastest rising OLT prospects? I have no idea if he's considered a 2nd round pick or a 7th round pick or anywhere in between.

Nevertheless, measureables are what made Walker an NFL TE in the first place. He was a big WR in college who ran extremely fast. That's why he's a matchup problem (too bad he can't catch very well).

Also, it wouldn't be the first (or second) time the Niners have drafted a guy based on athleticism and changed his position. See Bruce Miller.

 

[NinerSickness]

Bhy the way I find it odd that you said I need to stop looking at measureable and then cited that NFL scouts are causing his stock to rise because they were blown away by his measureables.

I, on the other hand, would not be looking at a 40 time if I thought the guy was an NFL OLT. 40 times are meaningless for O-linemen. It says something about their athleticism, but agility drills & jump numbers are much more important to show how an OL is going to move. People got all excited about Jason Smith having a good 40 time back in 2009, and look where that got him.

 

[Jikkle]

Here's another idea just to throw out there: draft Terron Armstead to play TE. Even at 306 pounds he's as fast as a lot of starting TEs in the NFL. Of course he would probably have to shed some weight (I always like when NFL players slim down; I don't see any reason he couldn't get down to like 285), and he would need all kinds of work running routes & stuff, but he sure as hell could block with his size, experience at OL and 34+ arms.

Haven't heard how high / low he's supposed to go though.

Chris Gragg out of Arkansas might be someone to consider at TE as he'll likely be available in the later rounds and his measurables compare closely to Walker's.

 

[NinerSickness]

Chris Gragg?

I suppose. I was never impressed with him (especially his blocking) when I watched Razorback games. A TE primarily needs to be able to run-block in the Niners' offense.

I always considered Joseph Fauria a possibility, but him not running at the combine makes me extremely wary because pro' day speed numbers are pure BS.

 

[Dodub]

That's why I said I didn't know how high / low he'd go; I didn't see a single Arkansas-Pinebluff game this year (or ever), so measureables are all I have on which to go with this guy. Did YOU see him play? And where are you hearing that he's one of the fastest rising OLT prospects? I have no idea if he's considered a 2nd round pick or a 7th round pick or anywhere in between.

Nevertheless, measureables are what made Walker an NFL TE in the first place. He was a big WR in college who ran extremely fast. That's why he's a matchup problem (too bad he can't catch very well).

Also, it wouldn't be the first (or second) time the Niners have drafted a guy based on athleticism and changed his position. See Bruce Miller.

I didn't see hiim play which is why I'm not asking for a complete position change. I'm going by what the scouts are saying about this kid, they are truly impressed with him as an OT. Read scouting notes and combine notes from him, he wowed at the bowl games and silences his critics who were worried about the level of competition he played against, his stock was rising before the combine where he absolutely dominated.

Measureables were NOT the reason that Walker was moved to TE actually he measures pretty poorly for an NFL TE. He was moved because of the fact that he wasn't going to be effective as a WR in the NFL and his mass and route running ability are what made Walker a TE/HB in the NFL. While Armstead is completely expected to play his position at the next level and play it well.

Bruce Miller wasn't going to go in the top 3 rounds. Bruce Miller wasn't going to be playing his position in the NFL. These are much different situations than Armstead.

 

[Dodub]

Bhy the way I find it odd that you said I need to stop looking at measureable and then cited that NFL scouts are causing his stock to rise because they were blown away by his measureables.

I, on the other hand, would not be looking at a 40 time if I thought the guy was an NFL OLT. 40 times are meaningless for O-linemen. It says something about their athleticism, but agility drills & jump numbers are much more important to show how an OL is going to move. People got all excited about Jason Smith having a good 40 time back in 2009, and look where that got him.

UHHH no I didn't say that. I said that he blew them away with his performance during the bowl weeks AND his combine performance. I'm not saying that he is a workout warrior so his stock is going up, he performed well against top competition during bowl weeks and that was one of his major question marks.

I honestly don't give a crap about an OL's 40 time and don't know why the hell they run it, I also don't care about how they jump as they don't be jumping on the field. The guy is a great athlete and very strong, he has the skillset to be a starting OLT in this league.

 

[Dodub]

The reason I say that you at measurables too much is because you look purely at a person's size and/or speed and assume that they can play another position at this level when in reality, very few can make that type of change successfully. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but we can't make assumptions just because other people have changed positions in the past. OT to TE is a MUCH bigger position change than DE to FB or WR to TE/H-Back, it just is. Now suggesting an OL to OL posiiton change is much more realistic. But I'm certainly not willing to risk a top 3 draft pick on a project of this magnitude, possibly ruining this kid's career in the process.

 

[NinerSickness]

I didn't see hiim play which is why I'm not asking for a complete position change. I'm going by what the scouts are saying about this kid, they are truly impressed with him as an OT. Read scouting notes and combine notes from him, he wowed at the bowl games and silences his critics who were worried about the level of competition he played against, his stock was rising before the combine where he absolutely dominated.

Measureables were NOT the reason that Walker was moved to TE actually he measures pretty poorly for an NFL TE. He was moved because of the fact that he wasn't going to be effective as a WR in the NFL and his mass and route running ability are what made Walker a TE/HB in the NFL. While Armstead is completely expected to play his position at the next level and play it well.

Bruce Miller wasn't going to go in the top 3 rounds. Bruce Miller wasn't going to be playing his position in the NFL. These are much different situations than Armstead.

These are all good points. I didn't see any of the scouting notes on Armstead either before or after the combine, but I'll take your word for it. Clearly it would be a reach to try to draft a project, backup TE conversion in the first 3 rounds. If he were a 5th or 6th round pick, that would be different.

But the measurable to which I was referring that made Walker a TE is his weight to heigh ratio. He's build like a brick. His speed is the reason he's a matchup problem.

The reason I say that you at measurables too much is because you look purely at a person's size and/or speed and assume that they can play another position

I do nothing of the sort. There's a huge difference between coming up with ideas for project players (like Miller was) and ASSUMING they can play a different position. I'm not opposed to the idea of drafting a player based on athleticism and letting him try the stuff Walker does (special teams, mostly blocking, lining up at WR, TE, H Back, etc).

 

[Jikkle]

Chris Gragg?

I suppose. I was never impressed with him (especially his blocking) when I watched Razorback games. A TE primarily needs to be able to run-block in the Niners' offense.

I always considered Joseph Fauria a possibility, but him not running at the combine makes me extremely wary because pro' day speed numbers are pure BS.

He'll need to add some strength but blocking is something that can be taught and improved on.

Not really saying we should draft him but if we're talking someone similar to Walker in terms of measurables I think Gragg fits pretty closely to Walker and we're probably looking at a 5th round pick investment.

Chris Gragg combine
Delanie Walker combine/pro day
Garret Celek pro day

I threw Celek for comparisons sake in there since he would be the number 2 TE if Walker left and we did nothing at the spot.

So in terms of just pure measurables their 40's are basically the same but Gragg is looks like Gragg is a little bigger and quicker than Walker but all in all not a major difference between the two.

The big question would be if Gragg or whoever we get to replace Walker if he goes would be if they can handle the mental aspect of all the various roles and aspects to what Walker did on the field.

 

[NinerSickness]

Speaking of players who might fare better at a new position, there are 2 guys on whom I'd keep an eye if they dropped to the later rounds; they might do better playing a different position in the NFL than they did in college.

First is Devin Taylor. He's not a 4-3 DE IMO (at least not a very good one). He's also a little small to play the 5 technique. I also wouldn't like him as a 3-4 OLB. But he has obscene length & hops. Could he be a project if he's there in the 5th or 6th?

The other is Cornelius Washington. He's being looked at as an OLB. He's clearly not a great pass-rusher. If he were on the Niners, I'd play him at the 5. In fact, his best position might be OLB in a 4-3. However, he has great length & leaps like a kangaroo. I would love to get him as a special teams player, but if he couldn't get on the field on defense maybe he could try playing in some offensive packages.

Now I'll be the first to point out that putting a tough defensive player on offense doesn't always mean the guy's gonna be a good blocker. It worked for teams like the Buccs & Pats in the past, but when the Niners tried letting Justin Smith play offense it was embarrassing. The dude's attempt at blocking was downright pathetic.

 

[Jikkle]

Now I'll be the first to point out that putting a tough defensive player on offense doesn't always mean the guy's gonna be a good blocker. It worked for teams like the Buccs & Pats in the past, but when the Niners tried letting Justin Smith play offense it was embarrassing. The dude's attempt at blocking was downright pathetic.

That's because it's harder for him to get away with holding

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Re: the initial question, I'm pretty sure teams have until next week to name a franchise player.

 

[sjballer03]

Converting a 305 pound OL to a pass catching TE in the NFL would be the mother of all projects even for Harbaugh. I highly doubt he would waste offseason resources on that.

 

[supreme_clientele81]

Re: the initial question, I'm pretty sure teams have until next week to name a franchise player.

No its today at 4 p.m. ET

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No its today at 4 p.m. ET

Yeah, just realized that and was coming to correct my statement. At least there'll be some relevant news today....

 

[NinerSickness]

Converting a 305 pound OL to a pass catching TE in the NFL would be the mother of all projects even for Harbaugh. I highly doubt he would waste offseason resources on that.

It wouldn't be as hard as you describe; he just wouldn't be used in the long-range passing game. A TE's blocking responsibilities are actually quite similar to that of a lineman.

If he slips to the 5th or 6th round, I'd be all for that kind of project. But I guess that's pretty unlikely (according to Dodub).

 

[ChrisPozz]

Here's another idea just to throw out there: draft Terron Armstead to play TE. Even at 306 pounds he's as fast as a lot of starting TEs in the NFL. Of course he would probably have to shed some weight (I always like when NFL players slim down; I don't see any reason he couldn't get down to like 285), and he would need all kinds of work running routes & stuff, but he sure as hell could block with his size, experience at OL and 34+ arms.

Haven't heard how high / low he's supposed to go though.

I think he's a pretty solid two and that feeling is shared by others I've talked to who have seen him play and then watched him at both all-star games. There's no way I'd take him in the 2nd (or 3rd) and not leave him alone until he proves he can't play on the line. I really like his upside alot. I don't see how he slips out of the 3rd round at the worst and right now I'd project 2nd.