dave stieb vs Jack Morris

[obxyankeefan]

Trying a different one. IMO one pitcher that was overrated and one that is underrated.

Morris. 3.9 era. 3800+ innings. 105 era+

Stieb. 3.44 era. 2800+ innings. 122 era+

 

[broncosmitty]

Morris, innings. 1,000 is more than enough for me to make the call without homer bias, IMHO.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Morris, innings. 1,000 is more than enough for me to make the call without homer bias, IMHO.

If my math is correct, Morris pitched an additional 928 innings with a 53 ERA+ with a 1.46 WHIP.

So Stieb could've been epicly bad if he pitched 900 more innings and still would've had numbers on par with Morris.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Morris, innings. 1,000 is more than enough for me to make the call without homer bias, IMHO.

Those extra innings aren't valuable ones though, they're well below replacement level. The difference between the two is 928.2 innings and 551 earned runs, or 928.2 innings of 5.34 ERA.

 

[obxyankeefan]

Morris, innings. 1,000 is more than enough for me to make the call without homer bias, IMHO.

Morris also pitched for four more years, but in the 162 game ave Morris only averaged 12 more innings.

 

[broncosmitty]

More Ks, more CG's, more innings, more W's. (Yep, I went there.)I'll take most any pitcher with a 3something ERA and 1000 more innings over another 3something ERA pitcher. +anything stats don't concern me, you know this. I'll give you WHIP though, still not trumping innings. (Dave's career was basically over at 32. Just not enough longevity). Not much would trump that kind of difference in my book.

 

[broncosmitty]

Morris also pitched for four more years, but in the 162 game ave Morris only averaged 12 more innings.

Was Steib getting paid in 94, 95, 96 and 97 when he didn't play? Im pretty steadfast on innings unless there is something outstanding in another area. I don't see outstanding in Steib. Not enough to make up for the innings discrepancy anyway.

 

[broncosmitty]

If my math is correct, Morris pitched an additional 928 innings with a 53 ERA+ with a 1.46 WHIP.

So Stieb could've been epicly bad if he pitched 900 more innings and still would've had numbers on par with Morris.

Their career WHIP is relatively close. Both hurt themselves rate wise by hangin around.

 

[DragonfromTO]

More Ks, more CG's, more innings, more W's. (Yep, I went there.)I'll take most any pitcher with a 3something ERA and 1000 more innings over another 3something ERA pitcher. +anything stats don't concern me, you know this. I'll give you WHIP though, still not trumping innings. (Dave's career was basically over at 32. Just not enough longevity). Not much would trump that kind of difference in my book.

Like I said before, you're basically giving him credit for a 5.34 ERA. I'd rather have someone else pitching than have Stieb or Morris doing that.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Was Steib getting paid in 94, 95, 96 and 97 when he didn't play? Im pretty steadfast on innings unless there is something outstanding in another area. I don't see outstanding in Steib. Not enough to make up for the innings discrepancy anyway.

Presumably he was getting paid for doing something during those years but he wasn't signed to a baseball contract, he retired and came back.

 

[broncosmitty]

Like I said before, you're basically giving him credit for a 5.34 ERA. I'd rather have someone else pitching than have Stieb or Morris doing that.

Not following. Morris didn't have a 5.34 ERA over his last 1000 innings. (They both were clearly more than done, when they were done.)

 

[StanMarsh51]

Not following. Morris didn't have a 5.34 ERA over his last 1000 innings. (They both were clearly more than done, when they were done.)

The 5.34 ERA is showing the differences between Morris' and Stieb' and earned runs. Morris had 928 more innings than Stieb but also 551 more earned runs allowed (which comes out to a 5.34 ERA)....so if Stieb had pitched for 928 more innings to match Morris' total, Stieb would've only needed to post a 5.34 ERA over those 928 innings to match Morris' 3.90 career ERA.

So like Dragon said, Morris wasn't good overall in all those extra innings he pitched over Stieb's total...they didn't really add value given how bad they were.

 

[broncosmitty]

But Steib didnt pitch those innings. If Morris would have only pitched between 1979 and 1988 he never would have had a losing season and his ERA would be much lower. It's career against career. Not adjusted career versus adjusted career.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I say dave stieb had the better career because he was actually good for a couple of seasons... Jack morris was decent at best when he was at his best...

 

[StanMarsh51]

But Steib didnt pitch those innings. If Morris would have only pitched between 1979 and 1988 he never would have had a losing season and his ERA would be much lower. It's career against career. Not adjusted career versus adjusted career.

And he still wouldn't have been as good as Stieb.

From 1979 to 1988, Morris had 2471 innings with a 3.55 ERA and 1.24 WHIP. Stieb by comparison had a 2597 inning stretch from 1980-1991 where he had a 3.29 ERA and 1.22 WHIP

So even if you take out their 'bad years,' Morris still wasn't as good. And those extra seasons of Morris don't help his case either because he was pretty bad in them (on the whole).

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I am not a WAR person but i found a telling WAR note...

Dave Stieb is 61st of all SP in WAR7 while Morris is 182nd

WAR7 for anyone who doesnt know, is a players best 7 seasons added up...

 

[broncosmitty]

And he still wouldn't have been as good as Stieb.

From 1979 to 1988, Morris had 2471 innings with a 3.55 ERA and 1.24 WHIP. Stieb by comparison had a 2597 inning stretch from 1980-1991 where he had a 3.29 ERA and 1.22 WHIP

So even if you take out their 'bad years,' Morris still wasn't as good.

I don't want to take out ANY years.

 

[navamind]

Stieb. Easily.

 

[Nosferatu]

Morris... Game 7 of the 91 World Series is enough for me...

 

[obxyankeefan]

Even though I voted for Stieb, I figured there would be more support for Morris then this.