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UK Cowboy

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I agree on opening the draft and that is what we have done so far with FA. We plugged our big holes (except of course for CB). I think Henderson gone before 17 but he would be the guy I hope for. I'm not sure about Diggs at #17. I think if it were him, whichever safety we liked best, one of the 3 WRs and maybe a pass rusher all on the board I would struggle taking him there.
I think we could be in a great spot to trade down too. Ive been doing a lot of mocks and its really an either or...either the perfect guy drops, CJ Henderson or one of thr 3 WR's or one of the 4 big time OT's, or the LSU pass rusher...or they are all gone and a bunch of really good players are sitting there who are about the same level prospect. I expect Jerry to do something...either go up for a guy or drop back for an extra pick.
 

UK Cowboy

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Greed? He was paid just over 4 million for his first 4 years. He's literally the best, most underpaid starter in the league.
He also made $50 million off the field, a number that is directly effected by being the Cowboys QB. It's not like he's hurting.
I do agree its not greed though. But sometimes you make more in the long run by taking a little less now.
 

jarntt

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I think we could be in a great spot to trade down too. Ive been doing a lot of mocks and its really an either or...either the perfect guy drops, CJ Henderson or one of thr 3 WR's or one of the 4 big time OT's, or the LSU pass rusher...or they are all gone and a bunch of really good players are sitting there who are about the same level prospect. I expect Jerry to do something...either go up for a guy or drop back for an extra pick.
It may fall that way. I hope we don't do something dumb like trade back and lose our top choice just to add a 3rd or 4th round pick because you have no clue who will be there at that point in the draft and if you will even like who you end up choosing. If we don't have anyone we like, then it's probably the move. But, that isn't something that can be decided until you are on the clock or just about to be. Every year people talk about trading up or down a month before the draft even starts and I pray the team isn't thinking like that because no one has a clue who will or won't be there. Mocks are worthless and not indicators of what will happen.

What this team seems to do best is use prime picks. If there is a player we like and i'm sure there will be, we need to just take him. We have more than enough marginal players on this team as is. Those mid round picks seem to be at best 50/50 for us and every year we have a new group of mid-round guys that we overestimate that don't pan out. I'd rather trade up to get a guy we love than back to get someone we are just happy with and a mid rounder and my gut tells me this team will feel the same way this year. But, I am sure like you say the team will be open to whatever presents itself based on how the draft starts to fall into place. Hopefully it's our draft board that determines what we do and not some pre-determined plan where we end up outsmarting ourselves ad getting stuck with mediocrity.
 

Manster7588

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He also made $50 million off the field[/B], a number that is directly effected by being the Cowboys QB. It's not like he's hurting.
I do agree its not greed though. But sometimes you make more in the long run by taking a little less now.

I don't think that's accurate. Yes I read the stories about his endorsements, but there's no way those bloggers know how much his endorsements are worth, plus I've read where that 50M is endorsements plus insurance. So it could be 5M in endorsements and 45M in insurance or 45M endorsement and 5M insurance or any number in between. I've also read where his NET Worth is between 2 and 5M, if that's correct he has not made anywhere close to 50M in endorsements.
 

scotsman1948

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there is no path on this board, that would be the Rangers board and we both know that. You can go off the path here and land a few face palms. Do that on the rangers board and they come outta the woodwork to attack.


geed is an opinion not a fact. It was said today that Dallas offered the largest contract but not the largest guaranteed nor the largest average per year. Since this thread brought up 10 year deals...maybe Jerry offered 10 years at 10M per, that would be the largest contract without being the largest guaranteed or average.

Hers is my problem with Jerry. He leaks what he wants to the media to make Prescott look bad and prop himself up. That's no way to treat your franchise QB, a QB he's said on countless occasions is the unquestionable leader of this team and one he's certain can lead his team to a Super Bowl. When Romo's contract was up, Jerry said what are you looking for and it was done, but with Dak....he's holding firm with 5 years while Dak as asked for 4....money is the same per year but Jerry wants to play hard ball over a year? Jerry wants to keep his QB one year removed from bigger contract if he produces when everyone in football is saying with the new TV deal coming, QB money and the cap will explode over the next 3 to 4 years. Dak is doing what he's always done, he's betting on himself ( could play bad and go the other way in 4 years) and Jerry is talking a good game but coming off cheap when this guy is suppose to be the one he says will take his team to the promise land.

Look....I think it's crazy to say Dak wants to play for another team over the Cowboys, but he shouldn't be expected to roll over for the opportunity. Sure, Dallas QB's that play well get national sponsor opportunities. The key is they play well. Dak has a shit load of spokes person opportunities, more than Romo got when it was his time. Those come with playing well as the Cowboy QB, AND being the person you are. Romo spent a few years running around chasing celebrities and being in the lime light. Dak takes teammates out of town to work on their game. Huge ass difference and Jerry say's he's sees it but sure doesn't seem that way to me.
i agree with most of this however Dak is like most greedy individuals no amount is enough. if he can't get what he wants from JJ he will get from some other owner. 5 years 165M won't satisfy him he wants more and doesn't care how it effects the team around him
 

Manster7588

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i agree with most of this however Dak is like most greedy individuals no amount is enough. if he can't get what he wants from JJ he will get from some other owner. 5 years 165M won't satisfy him he wants more and doesn't care how it effects the team around him

Other than his not signing a team friendly contract what has made him look greedy?

Oh by the way if you've been paying attention. By accounts on both sides it's not the money in question it's the length of the deal.
 

scotsman1948

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Greed? He was paid just over 4 million for his first 4 years. He's literally the best, most underpaid starter in the league.
and i agree he should make more a lot more but not so much that it effects the quality of other players of the other players the team can put on the field
 

scotsman1948

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Other than his not signing a team friendly contract what has made him look greedy?
how much is he actually worth? i think 28 to 32M AAV is a good deal that is fair to both sides. so how much do you think we should pay? should we base his AAV on what other QB's get?
 

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how much is he actually worth? i think 28 to 32M AAV is a good deal that is fair to both sides. so how much do you think we should pay? should we base his AAV on what other QB's get?
Carson Wentz average is 32M so Dak starts there. That 28 your about sailed last April. At this point I say give him his 4 year deal and look into drafting his replacement.
 

scotsman1948

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Carson Wentz average is 32M so Dak starts there. That 28 your about sailed last April. At this point I say give him his 4 year deal and look into drafting his replacement.
4 years 135M and look for his replacement works for me. but Dak and his agent want the numbers to be at least 145M or higher so he can say "i'm highest paid QB based on AAV (who cares how it impacts the rest of the team)"

and yes that's higher than my original numbers
 

UK Cowboy

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I don't think that's accurate. Yes I read the stories about his endorsements, but there's no way those bloggers know how much his endorsements are worth, plus I've read where that 50M is endorsements plus insurance. So it could be 5M in endorsements and 45M in insurance or 45M endorsement and 5M insurance or any number in between. I've also read where his NET Worth is between 2 and 5M, if that's correct he has not made anywhere close to 50M in endorsements.
Doesn't change the bottom line one bit, to portray Dak as this completely underpaid player is just false. Whatever his off the field income is per year, $50 million or $5 million, that's still money he's gonna make every year he is here. And how are Romo and Aikman doing financially in their post football careers? Would they be were they are now if they had QB'd the Browns or Bengals? All I'm saying is that if the Cowboys are really offering 5/$175, and his hold up is wanting 4 years, it COULD bite him on the butt. If he's unsigned on draft night and the Cowboys were to take a QB and let Dak play one year on the tag and move on, he will get paid by another team but I would bet anything he won't earn as much the rest of his life as he would have here.. Or paid less in taxes
 

Manster7588

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Doesn't change the bottom line one bit, to portray Dak as this completely underpaid player is just false. Whatever his off the field income is per year, $50 million or $5 million, that's still money he's gonna make every year he is here. And how are Romo and Aikman doing financially in their post football careers? Would they be were they are now if they had QB'd the Browns or Bengals? All I'm saying is that if the Cowboys are really offering 5/$175, and his hold up is wanting 4 years, it COULD bite him on the butt. If he's unsigned on draft night and the Cowboys were to take a QB and let Dak play one year on the tag and move on, he will get paid by another team but I would bet anything he won't earn as much the rest of his life as he would have here.. Or paid less in taxes
Doesn't change the bottom line one bit, to portray Dak as this completely underpaid player is just false. Whatever his off the field income is per year, $50 million or $5 million, that's still money he's gonna make every year he is here. And how are Romo and Aikman doing financially in their post football careers? Would they be were they are now if they had QB'd the Browns or Bengals? All I'm saying is that if the Cowboys are really offering 5/$175, and his hold up is wanting 4 years, it COULD bite him on the butt. If he's unsigned on draft night and the Cowboys were to take a QB and let Dak play one year on the tag and move on, he will get paid by another team but I would bet anything he won't earn as much the rest of his life as he would have here.. Or paid less in taxes
Don't get me wrong I do think Dak should take into account the endorsements he will get by staying in Dallas. I just questioned the amount some blogger claims he made. Searched that awhile back and saw it as an agenda driven non validated opinion.
 

Manster7588

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4 years 135M and look for his replacement works for me. but Dak and his agent want the numbers to be at least 145M or higher so he can say "i'm highest paid QB based on AAV (who cares how it impacts the rest of the team)"

and yes that's higher than my original numbers
I've still yet to hear either side say Dak wants to be the highest paid QB, maybe he does. What I have heard both side directly say is it's the length of the contract where they're at odds. I think it's time Dallas just gives into that demand. I'd go higher than Wentz average at 4 years, or tell him get ready for two years of Franchise Tags.
I'd offer 4 years 33 per with three years guaranteed.
 

scotsman1948

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I've still yet to hear either side say Dak wants to be the highest paid QB, maybe he does. What I have heard both side directly say is it's the length of the contract where they're at odds. I think it's time Dallas just gives into that demand. I'd go higher than Wentz average at 4 years, or tell him get ready for two years of Franchise Tags.
I'd offer 4 years 33 per with three years guaranteed.
I would too but I bet it wouldn't be accepted
 

tomodach10

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It may fall that way. I hope we don't do something dumb like trade back and lose our top choice just to add a 3rd or 4th round pick because you have no clue who will be there at that point in the draft and if you will even like who you end up choosing. If we don't have anyone we like, then it's probably the move. But, that isn't something that can be decided until you are on the clock or just about to be. Every year people talk about trading up or down a month before the draft even starts and I pray the team isn't thinking like that because no one has a clue who will or won't be there. Mocks are worthless and not indicators of what will happen.

What this team seems to do best is use prime picks. If there is a player we like and i'm sure there will be, we need to just take him. We have more than enough marginal players on this team as is. Those mid round picks seem to be at best 50/50 for us and every year we have a new group of mid-round guys that we overestimate that don't pan out. I'd rather trade up to get a guy we love than back to get someone we are just happy with and a mid rounder and my gut tells me this team will feel the same way this year. But, I am sure like you say the team will be open to whatever presents itself based on how the draft starts to fall into place. Hopefully it's our draft board that determines what we do and not some pre-determined plan where we end up outsmarting ourselves ad getting stuck with mediocrity.
On point! I agree. Trade down if the player or players you want are not there. Like you said, this team needs top talent and it is more of crap shot after the second round or sometimes after the first. Even trading back and picking up extra picks does not guarantee the player you want will be there when you pick. Too much movement by other teams such as rivals in the 3rd and later rounds. We saw that with the Eagles jumping us and getting the tight end we wanted. Standing pat in the first and second rounds unless the above happens, seems to be the best option IMO.
 

jarntt

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I've still yet to hear either side say Dak wants to be the highest paid QB, maybe he does. What I have heard both side directly say is it's the length of the contract where they're at odds. I think it's time Dallas just gives into that demand. I'd go higher than Wentz average at 4 years, or tell him get ready for two years of Franchise Tags.
I'd offer 4 years 33 per with three years guaranteed.
I can't figure out which side I think wouldn't do that so I guess that means it's pretty fair. At some point if he isn't signing for 5 years then it just isn't happening and you can't force him to. But, the idea that the team won't give him a 4 year deal under any circumstances that people are saying is silly. yes, they won't give him the 4 year deal he wants or as sweet of a 4 year deal as the 5 year offer. But, I'm sure but if he worked with them and took less guaranteed money and less per year they would absolutely do the 4 years. Less guaranteed and less per year lowers the cap the same as spreading it over 5 years. But I am guessing Dak is going for the 4 years with the main parameters of the 5 year offer and thus the impasse.

Now on your deal it wouldn't work like that because there is also a guaranteed SB so it would push the guaranteed money too high, but total guarantees of around $99M is pretty damn fair if he doesn't want to add the 5th year. Wentz and Goff had the option year so that is why their extension was only 4 years (they were 4 weren't they:scratch:) because they split the SB over the option year too and that is why Goff got over $100M in guaranteed $ - can't remember about Wentz but his isn't as great deal for him and the team has an out if they get buyer's remorse or he gets injured worse
 

Manster7588

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I can't figure out which side I think wouldn't do that so I guess that means it's pretty fair. At some point if he isn't signing for 5 years then it just isn't happening and you can't force him to. But, the idea that the team won't give him a 4 year deal under any circumstances that people are saying is silly. yes, they won't give him the 4 year deal he wants or as sweet of a 4 year deal as the 5 year offer. But, I'm sure but if he worked with them and took less guaranteed money and less per year they would absolutely do the 4 years. Less guaranteed and less per year lowers the cap the same as spreading it over 5 years. But I am guessing Dak is going for the 4 years with the main parameters of the 5 year offer and thus the impasse.

Now on your deal it wouldn't work like that because there is also a guaranteed SB so it would push the guaranteed money too high, but total guarantees of around $99M is pretty damn fair if he doesn't want to add the 5th year. Wentz and Goff had the option year so that is why their extension was only 4 years (they were 4 weren't they:scratch:) because they split the SB over the option year too and that is why Goff got over $100M in guaranteed $ - can't remember about Wentz but his isn't as great deal for him and the team has an out if they get buyer's remorse or he gets injured worse
The SB just lowers the annual salary. For instance 16MSB along with a salary that averages 27.7M over years 1-3 total Dak earns is 99M then year 4 salary would be 33M.
 

jarntt

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The SB just lowers the annual salary. For instance 16MSB along with a salary that averages 27.7M over years 1-3 total Dak earns is 99M then year 4 salary would be 33M.
Yes, I understand the Math. In your example his year 4 cap hit would be $38M and years 1-3 would be $32M. If it were structured like that we could cut Dak after 3 years and owe him nothing and have only $4M in dead money. So he would have signed a 3 year deal for $33M per if we want out or if still a good deal for the team we get him for year 4. I don't think he does that. The teams are getting craftier and very seldom is the salary the same each year but who knows

I would guess his SB is probably $25M and split over 4 years unless Dallas pulls a stupid Howie movie and splits it over 5 (I think the new CBA was supposed to do away with that?). Usually the first two years are the only ones guaranteed at signing. The 3rd year may guarantee in March of 2021 or something. Also popular in the big deals are roster bonuses in outer years that may be guaranteed as well and push out the cap allocation. So in your example maybe a $7.7M salary and a $20M bonus in year 2. But the key will be what is originally reported as guaranteed vs what really is as we all know. Wentz's contract is a good example of this or even Coopers.
 
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