Curt Schilling is an ass

[redskinsfan1963]

I wonder how many qualified HoF players are out for the sole reason that they are a dick. It can't be that many.

always heard rose was an ass,but don,t know.

 

[Mebert]

Defensive metrics are still in their absolute infancy. I use them ONLY because there isn’t anything reliable to use.

Omar, even without his off-field issues, is looked at as a boarder line HOFer AT BEST, but Ozzie was a first ballot guy? Are you saying that there is that much difference between the two? One is an all time great and the other is a solid-ish member of the HOVG? And the flip and the off-field dalliances aren’t the reasons for that?

I won't argue that he was first ballot because he was super nice, but he was getting in no matter what based on his play eventually.

 

[calsnowskier]

I won't argue that he was first ballot because he was super nice, but he was getting in no matter what based on his play eventually.

So shouldn’t Omar as well?


I don’t think we actually disagree that much, tbh. I think we are both saying that off-field stuff that SHOULDNT have a bearing on HOF inclusion does in fact factor in. Bonds, Clemens and Schillings (MAYBE ARod in the future, but he has actual rules violations in his back pocket that BC&S don’t have) are the poster children of that, but I think the best hard example is Smith vs Omar. Practically the same player but one was a 1st ballot shoo-in while the other is most likely going to miss out.

 

[Mebert]

So shouldn’t Omar as well?


I don’t think we actually disagree that much, tbh. I think we are both saying that off-field stuff that SHOULDNT have a bearing on HOF inclusion does in fact factor in. Bonds, Clemens and Schillings (MAYBE ARod in the future, but he has actual rules violations in his back pocket that BC&S don’t have) are the poster children of that, but I think the best hard example is Smith vs Omar. Practically the same player but one was a 1st ballot shoo-in while the other is most likely going to miss out.

Omar we agree 100%, he should have been in a long time ago. Peaking below 55% should leave all that get a vote filled with shame.

 

[sharkymcwrath]

Pretty much Schilling, Bonds, and Clemens (those 2 would be in if they were liked)

You don't think Bonds and Clemens are because they cheated?

Schilling is a giant douche but IMO deserves to be in. Being a dickhead shouldn't exclude you. Being a cheater should. IMO.

 

[msgkings322]

You don't think Bonds and Clemens are because they cheated?

If they were guys the writers liked they'd have given them the benefit of the doubt, specifically that they were HOF level even before doing roids. Others with clouds over them are in like David Ortiz, everyone loves Big Papi

Schilling is a giant douche but IMO deserves to be in. Being a dickhead shouldn't exclude you. Being a cheater should. IMO.

Schilling should probably be in. But those 2 (B&C) should definitely be in. Arguably the greatest hitter and pitcher ever. And not because they roided up. It's stupid moralizing about things they did that didn't violate any actual rules and everyone was doing.

But if the Hall wants to enshrine people less than the greatest ever they can do what they want.

 

[calsnowskier]

You don't think Bonds and Clemens are because they cheated?

Schilling is a giant douche but IMO deserves to be in. Being a dickhead shouldn't exclude you. Being a cheater should. IMO.

What baseball rule did B&C violate?

 

[sharkymcwrath]

What baseball rule did B&C violate?

I was under the impression that it was a fact that they took PED's. If that's not the case then they should be in IMO.

 

[calsnowskier]

I was under the impression that it was a fact that they took PED's. If that's not the case then they should be in IMO.

No one questions if they took PEDs or not. But when they took PEDs, it was not against the rules of baseball. They both supposedly tested positive during the blind testing that the players took part in to gauge how prevalent PEDs was in the game. But that testing was supposed to be completely anonymous and without consequence. It was just to see how big the problem was.

Then MLB leaked the results with players names attached and B&C were Scarlett lettered forever as a result.

PEDs were not officially outlawed in the game until much later (I don’t remember the exact date off the top of my head) and neither EVER failed a legit test.

 

[sharkymcwrath]

No one questions if they took PEDs or not. But when they took PEDs, it was not against the rules of baseball.

Then I think they should be in. If they weren't banned at the time then that shit shouldn't even be mentioned.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Pretty much Schilling, Bonds, and Clemens (those 2 would be in if they were liked)

It’s criminal that Rose Bonds and Clemens aren’t in. I won’t put Schilling in the same category because those guys are just no brainers. All 3 should have been first ballot Hall of Famers. In those three names you have the all time hits leader, the all time Hrs leader, and a dude who won the Triple Crown of pitching not once but twice. Fuck sports writers. It’s not the fault of these athletes that MLB purposefully looked the other way forever on PED use. That contributed to the creation of the culture. Who knows what Bonds and Clemens would have chosen to do if there was a legit policy and it was policed.

 

[sharkymcwrath]

It’s criminal that Rose Bonds and Clemens aren’t in. I won’t put Schilling in the same category because those guys are just no brainers. All 3 should have been first ballot Hall of Famers. In those three names you have the all time hits leader, the all time Hrs leader, and a dude who won the Triple Crown of pitching not once but twice. Fuck sports writers. It’s not the fault of these athletes that MLB purposefully looked the other way forever on PED use. That contributed to the creation of the culture. Who knows what Bonds and Clemens would have chosen to do if there was a legit policy and it was policed.

There's a douche writer in Boston who has publicly stated he won't give Schilling a vote due to politics. That's insane. Ya, Schilling is a dickhead but being a dickhead doesn't change his stats and politics should never be uttered during the voting process.

Schilling has three WS rings with two teams. And the whole "bloody sock game" is stuff of legend let alone helping Boston break "The Curse".

Schilling should be in and in my opinion it should've been first ballot.

 

[fightinfunbags]

There's a douche writer in Boston who has publicly stated he won't give Schilling a vote due to politics. That's insane. Ya, Schilling is a dickhead but being a dickhead doesn't change his stats and politics should never be uttered during the voting process.

Exactly the shit I’m talking about. It should never enter into the equation. That writer who was dumb enough to say that publicly should have their vote taken away.

Schilling has three WS rings with two teams. And the whole "bloody sock game" is stuff of legend let alone helping Boston break "The Curse".

Schilling should be in and in my opinion it should've been first ballot.

I don’t disagree. I was just drawing a line between the quality of his career and the other three.

 

[msgkings322]

It’s criminal that Rose Bonds and Clemens aren’t in. I won’t put Schilling in the same category because those guys are just no brainers. All 3 should have been first ballot Hall of Famers. In those three names you have the all time hits leader, the all time Hrs leader, and a dude who won the Triple Crown of pitching not once but twice. Fuck sports writers. It’s not the fault of these athletes that MLB purposefully looked the other way forever on PED use. That contributed to the creation of the culture. Who knows what Bonds and Clemens would have chosen to do if there was a legit policy and it was policed.

Rose should definitely NOT be in. Because he agreed to a lifetime ban to avoid more damaging revelations. After he's dead then put him in. Shoeless Joe too.

 

[calsnowskier]

It’s criminal that Rose Bonds and Clemens aren’t in. I won’t put Schilling in the same category because those guys are just no brainers. All 3 should have been first ballot Hall of Famers. In those three names you have the all time hits leader, the all time Hrs leader, and a dude who won the Triple Crown of pitching not once but twice. Fuck sports writers. It’s not the fault of these athletes that MLB purposefully looked the other way forever on PED use. That contributed to the creation of the culture. Who knows what Bonds and Clemens would have chosen to do if there was a legit policy and it was policed.

I know this has been argues to death, and everyone is pretty much firmly in their camps, but…

There is ONE rule in baseball that is clearly posted in every clubhouse…

No Pickle at any time





er…


I mean…


No gambling on baseball.

Rose did that. And he was not unilaterally kicked out of the game. He accepted the life ban voluntarily to put an end to the investigation. HE ACCEPTED THE LIFETIME BAN.

Rose is a completely different situation as B&C and should never, imho, be lumped into discussions about B&C.

 

[calsnowskier]

Rose should definitely NOT be in. Because he agreed to a lifetime ban to avoid more damaging revelations. After he's dead then put him in. Shoeless Joe too.

I referenced those rumors in my retort but since those are just rumors, and unsubstantiated, I decided to delete them. But it does add context to the ban.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Rose should definitely NOT be in. Because he agreed to a lifetime ban to avoid more damaging revelations. After he's dead then put him in. Shoeless Joe too.

I was unaware of the more damaging revelations.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I know this has been argues to death, and everyone is pretty much firmly in their camps, but…

There is ONE rule in baseball that is clearly posted in every clubhouse…

No Pickle at any time





er…


I mean…


No gambling on baseball.

Rose did that. And he was not unilaterally kicked out of the game. He accepted the life ban voluntarily to put an end to the investigation. HE ACCEPTED THE LIFETIME BAN.

Rose is a completely different situation as B&C and should never, imho, be lumped into discussions about B&C.

I don’t disagree with your decision to delineate but I do have a problem with the all time hits leader not being in the Hall of Fame. I would be ok with what @msgkings322 proposed and that would be the veterans committee putting him in posthumously.

 

[msgkings322]

I don’t disagree with your decision to delineate but I do have a problem with the all time hits leader not being in the Hall of Fame. I would be ok with what @msgkings322 proposed and that would be the veterans committee putting him in posthumously.

Seems like the ideal solution. He gets punished in the manner he agreed to, then the Hall recognizes him

 

[Center Ice]

I wonder how many qualified HoF players are out for the sole reason that they are a dick. It can't be that many.

Well, you have to remember that the people that vote, do so with one hand while holding onto their bar stools with the other.