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calsnowskier

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Garrett Williams shipped to the Angels to complete the Cozart/Wilson trade. I'm liking this trade a lot less.
Giants Acquire Zack Cozart
Wow. Really? So we get a moderate upgrade in prospect, but take on a large contract for a player we don’t need? And we deal from a prospect position of need (SP) for a prospect position of less-need (mid inf).

no bueno.
 

calsnowskier

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Looking at Williams’ numbers, it is POSSIBLE that Giants have given up on him. He had a meh year in Richmond. And that league is pitcher-friendly.
 

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(Williams wasn't on the 40-man, but ...) From MLBTR :
Dec. 12: The Angels announced that they’ve acquired left-hander Garrett Williams from the Giants as a player to be named later, thus completing the Cozart swap. Sending him out as a player to be named later seems likely have been a measure of ensuring that Williams wasn’t selected in today’s Rule 5 Draft.

Williams, 25, was the Giants’ seventh-round pick back in 2016 and just completed his second season at the Double-A level, where he posted a 3.60 ERA with 8.8 K/9, 5.0 BB/9, 0.49 HR/9 and a 55.7 percent ground-ball rate in 110 innings (20 starts, nine relief outings). Williams, who was the Giants’ No. 29 prospect at MLB.com and landed outside the top 29 at FanGraphs, draws praise for a plus curveball but is obviously lacking in the command department. He’s averaged 4.9 BB/9 in his pro career to date, including a 5.7 mark in two seasons of Double-A ball.

Edit: Geez, I start typing, phone rings, get distracted, come back an hour later and I miss my scoop. :(
 

MarcoPolo

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Also from MLBTR (earlier) :

Of the other teams involved {{Ed: in the Didi Gregorius hunt}} , the Giants’ inclusion is particularly interesting. They already have an expensive veteran shortstop in Brandon Crawford, who has a sterling defensive reputation. Speculatively, the Giants could have been after Gregorius with the intention of playing him at second base. They wound up acquiring a different infielder, former Angel Zack Cozart, on Tuesday.

Interesting thought process on why Cozart. Also, how many flacking middle infielders does FZ need?
 

LHG

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Wow. Really? So we get a moderate upgrade in prospect, but take on a large contract for a player we don’t need? And we deal from a prospect position of need (SP) for a prospect position of less-need (mid inf).

no bueno.

(Williams wasn't on the 40-man, but ...) From MLBTR :
Dec. 12: The Angels announced that they’ve acquired left-hander Garrett Williams from the Giants as a player to be named later, thus completing the Cozart swap. Sending him out as a player to be named later seems likely have been a measure of ensuring that Williams wasn’t selected in today’s Rule 5 Draft.

Williams, 25, was the Giants’ seventh-round pick back in 2016 and just completed his second season at the Double-A level, where he posted a 3.60 ERA with 8.8 K/9, 5.0 BB/9, 0.49 HR/9 and a 55.7 percent ground-ball rate in 110 innings (20 starts, nine relief outings). Williams, who was the Giants’ No. 29 prospect at MLB.com and landed outside the top 29 at FanGraphs, draws praise for a plus curveball but is obviously lacking in the command department. He’s averaged 4.9 BB/9 in his pro career to date, including a 5.7 mark in two seasons of Double-A ball.

Edit: Geez, I start typing, phone rings, get distracted, come back an hour later and I miss my scoop. :(
Looking at Williams’ numbers, it is POSSIBLE that Giants have given up on him. He had a meh year in Richmond. And that league is pitcher-friendly.
Williams wasn't a FZ acquire, so ... he obviously had no value.

I think the move makes the trade look rather dumb. Sure, he wasn't dominating in the Eastern League and wasn't one of FZ's acquisitions, but as cal points out, its a position of need in the org. Why drain a weak area further for a prospect that looked okay as a college player in rookie ball, who plays a position that arguably the top prospect in the org plays, AND also take on a contract of a infielder who has looked awful for the last two years while calling California home? Is it FZ's way of apologizing to Atlanta and Minnesota for their deals?
 

LHG

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Also from MLBTR (earlier) :

Of the other teams involved {{Ed: in the Didi Gregorius hunt}} , the Giants’ inclusion is particularly interesting. They already have an expensive veteran shortstop in Brandon Crawford, who has a sterling defensive reputation. Speculatively, the Giants could have been after Gregorius with the intention of playing him at second base. They wound up acquiring a different infielder, former Angel Zack Cozart, on Tuesday.

Interesting thought process on why Cozart. Also, how many flacking middle infielders does FZ need?
Somewhere, Brian Sabean is smiling right now.
John-Hannibal-Smith-George-Peppard-cigarmonkeys.com-famous-cigar-9.jpg
 

tzill

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Garrett Williams shipped to the Angels to complete the Cozart/Wilson trade. I'm liking this trade a lot less.
Giants Acquire Zack Cozart

Really? I quite like it a LOT.

It's an NBA style "I have cap space and I'll take your crap contract for assets" type move. Very outside the box and I expect him to do it again this year. There are no FA upgrades out there that will get us 12 additional wins that make any financial sense. Say we had signed Cole and Rendon. Would we be expected to make the playoffs? No. So, what should we do with our "cap space?" Sign mediocre FAs just to spend money? No. Use that cap space to pick up assets.

I'm surprised you didn't like it. Were you a big Williams fan? I mean, he's no Susac....
 

tzill

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Wow. Really? So we get a moderate upgrade in prospect, but take on a large contract for a player we don’t need? And we deal from a prospect position of need (SP) for a prospect position of less-need (mid inf).

no bueno.

But if that cap space is useless anyway, why not upgrade and pick up a top 5 prospect?

Muy bueno, IMO.
 

tzill

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Also from MLBTR (earlier) :

Of the other teams involved {{Ed: in the Didi Gregorius hunt}} , the Giants’ inclusion is particularly interesting. They already have an expensive veteran shortstop in Brandon Crawford, who has a sterling defensive reputation. Speculatively, the Giants could have been after Gregorius with the intention of playing him at second base. They wound up acquiring a different infielder, former Angel Zack Cozart, on Tuesday.

Interesting thought process on why Cozart. Also, how many flacking middle infielders does FZ need?
I'd bet Cozart never plays a game in a Giants uni.
 

LHG

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Really? I quite like it a LOT.

It's an NBA style "I have cap space and I'll take your crap contract for assets" type move. Very outside the box and I expect him to do it again this year. There are no FA upgrades out there that will get us 12 additional wins that make any financial sense. Say we had signed Cole and Rendon. Would we be expected to make the playoffs? No. So, what should we do with our "cap space?" Sign mediocre FAs just to spend money? No. Use that cap space to pick up assets.

I'm surprised you didn't like it. Were you a big Williams fan? I mean, he's no Susac....
So you are advocating an FO philosophy that "we've got room before being penalized so we might as well spend it somewhere"? I do like the idea of picking up prospects. Wilson has the pedigree of a 1st round pick but his initial season wasn't that exciting. If I knew he had world class defense, then I'd be less tepid about his prospect status. But what bothers me about the trade is the cost. Take on a full year's MLB deadweight contract AND trade a decent B- pitching prospect (of which the org is light on and for which an org can never have too much of)? Wilson better be good for that kind of move. Of course, if Williams never pans out and Wilson never pans out, then its all moot. I'd like this trade much more if Longoria gets flipped for some decent prospects and Cozart has some measure of bounce back in a half season and also gets flipped.
 

calsnowskier

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So you are advocating an FO philosophy that "we've got room before being penalized so we might as well spend it somewhere"? I do like the idea of picking up prospects. Wilson has the pedigree of a 1st round pick but his initial season wasn't that exciting. If I knew he had world class defense, then I'd be less tepid about his prospect status. But what bothers me about the trade is the cost. Take on a full year's MLB deadweight contract AND trade a decent B- pitching prospect (of which the org is light on and for which an org can never have too much of)? Wilson better be good for that kind of move. Of course, if Williams never pans out and Wilson never pans out, then its all moot. I'd like this trade much more if Longoria gets flipped for some decent prospects and Cozart has some measure of bounce back in a half season and also gets flipped.
Pretty much this...

Ignorantly, I like Wilson better than Williams. But Williams is from a shallow bucket. And I am not certain a I like him enough to eat a large dead contract.

FZ et al, however, know MUCH more about the specifics in the trade, so I have no choice but to believe they have a plan. But on the surface, the trade is much less:yes: than it was before we knew Williams was part of it.
 

tzill

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So you are advocating an FO philosophy that "we've got room before being penalized so we might as well spend it somewhere"? I do like the idea of picking up prospects. Wilson has the pedigree of a 1st round pick but his initial season wasn't that exciting. If I knew he had world class defense, then I'd be less tepid about his prospect status. But what bothers me about the trade is the cost. Take on a full year's MLB deadweight contract AND trade a decent B- pitching prospect (of which the org is light on and for which an org can never have too much of)? Wilson better be good for that kind of move. Of course, if Williams never pans out and Wilson never pans out, then its all moot. I'd like this trade much more if Longoria gets flipped for some decent prospects and Cozart has some measure of bounce back in a half season and also gets flipped.


Spend if you can buy a young asset? Yes. What else was he going to do with the money?
 

filosofy29

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Not spend it. Or not overspend. Wilson may be a decent prospect but the cost seems too high, in my opinion.
I agree with Tz, why not go out and get prospects for bad contracts? As long as the term is low (1-2 years) for the contracts and the player doesn’t block development, the Giants can still spend money as a competitive advantage...and they obviously ain’t spending it on FA talent. It’s not like they’re going to lower the prices of beer because they didn’t pick up Cozart.

Now if you don’t like Wilson better than Williams, I get it. Bottom line, I don’t know Jack about prospects, but it seems like in FZ’s mind, Williams will not be part of the long term plans (3-5 years out)...Wilson has the potential to be.
 

LHG

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I agree with Tz, why not go out and get prospects for bad contracts? As long as the term is low (1-2 years) for the contracts and the player doesn’t block development, the Giants can still spend money as a competitive advantage...and they obviously ain’t spending it on FA talent. It’s not like they’re going to lower the prices of beer because they didn’t pick up Cozart.

Now if you don’t like Wilson better than Williams, I get it. Bottom line, I don’t know Jack about prospects, but it seems like in FZ’s mind, Williams will not be part of the long term plans (3-5 years out)...Wilson has the potential to be.
My beef on this deal isn't just a Wilson/Williams comparison. It is a Wilson/Williams & Cozart contract comparison. In my mind, the prospect coming back in that deal needs to be pretty decent. Maybe Wilson is better than what I've heard, we will see.
 

LHG

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But how does not spending it help?
Saving money helps. Especially, when doing otherwise doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Had the trade been a straight Cozart and Wilson for say, a C- grade prospect, I would have been much more okay with it. Considering FZ finagled a prospect from Atlanta and them taking on the rest of Melancon's contract, this trade really lacks.
 

SFGRTB

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Saving money helps. Especially, when doing otherwise doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Had the trade been a straight Cozart and Wilson for say, a C- grade prospect, I would have been much more okay with it. Considering FZ finagled a prospect from Atlanta and them taking on the rest of Melancon's contract, this trade really lacks.

When the Giants are easily ducking the luxury tax, why should we care how much they spend?
 
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