Couple questions for NBA guy

[SteelersPride]

I see alot of guys in the NBA that are from small schools that are pretty damn good. How did that many people miss on recruiting?

ie: Dame Lilliard and McCollum

Also.

Who are some of your more underrated players? The two i just mentioned ring true to me.
derozan and aldridge, Jrue Holiday, aaron gordon, tobias harris

just some for me, probably wrong.

 

[tlance]

I see alot of guys in the NBA that are from small schools that are pretty damn good. How did that many people miss on recruiting?

ie: Dame Lilliard and McCollum

Also.

Who are some of your more underrated players? The two i just mentioned ring true to me.
derozan and aldridge, Jrue Holiday, aaron gordon, tobias harris

just some for me, probably wrong.

I will take the first one. Many thoughts on that.

First off, it is really difficult to scout guards coming out of high school. There are thousands of really good players. And the gap between the best guard and the 100th best guard is narrower than it has ever been.

Elite Big men are a lot easier to notice. When a kid is 6'9" or taller and runs like a deer, there is a good chance they are getting a high major scholarship offer.

With guards it is much more of a guessing game. So many kids today have the dribbling, passing and shooting skills needed to play college ball, but the hard part is determining what level their skills translate to based on their size/strength/speed.

I saw Curry in high school. He was really skilled, but he was a skinny, not super fast 6'1" kid who didn't handle the ball well enough to be a point guard. Big programs weren't giving him scholarship offers. And given who he was as a senior in high school, they weren't wrong.

CUrry began blossoming into the superstar he is today at Davidson. In large part, that transformation happened because he had a coaching staff who was highly invested in helping him develop and he was the type of kid who took advantage of every opportunity to get better.

Would he be the player he is today had he chosen to walk on at Virginia Tech? My bet is no. Because he wouldn't have had early playing time and his coaches would not have been as invested in him as McKillop was at Davidson because he would have been the 13th man as a Freshman. It would have been a much harder pathway for him to reach his current heights.

In summary-

1) it is difficult to scout high school guards because there are a lot of good ones and they play varying levels of competition
2) Some of these guys weren't anywhere near the player they are today when in high school, and the upside was somewhat hidden

 

[dtgold88]

I will take the first one. Many thoughts on that.

First off, it is really difficult to scout guards coming out of high school. There are thousands of really good players. And the gap between the best guard and the 100th best guard is narrower than it has ever been.

Elite Big men are a lot easier to notice. When a kid is 6'9" or taller and runs like a deer, there is a good chance they are getting a high major scholarship offer.

With guards it is much more of a guessing game. So many kids today have the dribbling, passing and shooting skills needed to play college ball, but the hard part is determining what level their skills translate to based on their size/strength/speed.

I saw Curry in high school. He was really skilled, but he was a skinny, not super fast 6'1" kid who didn't handle the ball well enough to be a point guard. Big programs weren't giving him scholarship offers. And given who he was as a senior in high school, they weren't wrong.

CUrry began blossoming into the superstar he is today at Davidson. In large part, that transformation happened because he had a coaching staff who was highly invested in helping him develop and he was the type of kid who took advantage of every opportunity to get better.

Would he be the player he is today had he chosen to walk on at Virginia Tech? My bet is no. Because he wouldn't have had early playing time and his coaches would not have been as invested in him as McKillop was at Davidson because he would have been the 13th man as a Freshman. It would have been a much harder pathway for him to reach his current heights.

In summary-

1) it is difficult to scout high school guards because there are a lot of good ones and they play varying levels of competition
2) Some of these guys weren't anywhere near the player they are today when in high school, and the upside was somewhat hidden

Good call on the guards. Go to all the HS games where I live as my kid cheers. Top player on team (name is Sincere Carry) seemed like a solid Div. 1 recruit. Not a star though. Hard for me to compare him as I never really saw many HS games in the past. was told no D1 offers. Probably because of previous knee injuries as a sophomore and early as a junior I think. Also barely 6-0.

Cannot imagine he was not better than OSU's PG who I saw play a lot (Dakich). Was going to a D2 school until he went nuts in the Final 4 (1 game against a kid who could be a top 10 pick in next draft, Braxton Hayes) in Columbus and got an offer from Duquesne. Guessing on numbers but had a very solid freshman season. double digit points and 5-6 assists/game and among leaders in nation in steals.

would bet there are a number of stories like this every year.

 

[SteelersPride]

Thanks @tlance very good info

 

[dtgold88]

I see alot of guys in the NBA that are from small schools that are pretty damn good. How did that many people miss on recruiting?

ie: Dame Lilliard and McCollum

Also.

Who are some of your more underrated players? The two i just mentioned ring true to me.
derozan and aldridge, Jrue Holiday, aaron gordon, tobias harris

just some for me, probably wrong.

Do you mean underrated coming out of college? A few of those you mentioned I think are rated fairly by most in NBA - McCollum, Derozan, Lillard, aldridge.

agree the others could be called underrated. Would say John Collins of Atlanta might be one by those who don't follow the league closely.

 

[SteelersPride]

Do you mean underrated coming out of college? A few of those you mentioned I think are rated fairly by most in NBA - McCollum, Derozan, Lillard, aldridge.

agree the others could be called underrated. Would say John Collins of Atlanta might be one by those who don't follow the league closely.

Well I guess both, I was more thinking now. I just don’t see the ones I listed with the elites now. And I think dame Lillard is awesome

 

[dtgold88]

Well I guess both, I was more thinking now. I just don’t see the ones I listed with the elites now. And I think dame Lillard is awesome

Fair point and I do think Lillard is finally starting to get moved into the elite of the elite discussion....or at worst just on the outside. I don't think McCollum is on that level but agree he's probably better than many give him credit.

 

[SteelersPride]

Fair point and I do think Lillard is finally starting to get moved into the elite of the elite discussion....or at worst just on the outside. I don't think McCollum is on that level but agree he's probably better than many give him credit.

Again I’m not a very knowledgeable hoops guy, just some things I see

 

[dtgold88]

Again I’m not a very knowledgeable hoops guy, just some things I see

I thought you made some great points, especially wondering why Dame is not put in the elite category. wasn't questioning your knowledge at all.

also think Gordon and Harris are very underrated.

 

[SteelersPride]

I thought you made some great points, especially wondering why Dame is not put in the elite category. wasn't questioning your knowledge at all.

also think Gordon and Harris are very underrated.

I can name some others I see was just curious if anyone ya other guys

 

[tlance]

Good call on the guards. Go to all the HS games where I live as my kid cheers. Top player on team (name is Sincere Carry) seemed like a solid Div. 1 recruit. Not a star though. Hard for me to compare him as I never really saw many HS games in the past. was told no D1 offers. Probably because of previous knee injuries as a sophomore and early as a junior I think. Also barely 6-0.

Cannot imagine he was not better than OSU's PG who I saw play a lot (Dakich). Was going to a D2 school until he went nuts in the Final 4 (1 game against a kid who could be a top 10 pick in next draft, Braxton Hayes) in Columbus and got an offer from Duquesne. Guessing on numbers but had a very solid freshman season. double digit points and 5-6 assists/game and among leaders in nation in steals.

would bet there are a number of stories like this every year.

The other thing that makes it really difficult is that kids face varying levels of competition.

Much easier to figure out how good the prep star is who attends a basketball factory and plays against other college bound players night in and night out.

What about the kid that plays at a random public school or a small private?

There is a kid in my hometown that plays at a small private school where he is the only good player. They play a nothing schedule because they are a bad team, but this kid is nasty. Scores over 30 a game and has every skill.

How good is he though? I have no idea. My guess is D3, but if you told me he could succeed at D1 that would not surprise me. I also wouldn't be shocked if he fails at the D3 level. Kid is really skilled, but so hard to judge because the kids he competes against just aren't on his level.

 

[shopson67]

I thought you made some great points, especially wondering why Dame is not put in the elite category. wasn't questioning your knowledge at all.

also think Gordon and Harris are very underrated.

Underrated how though? Gordon was the #4 pick, Harris #19. It's not like these are 2nd rounders.

 

[dtgold88]

Underrated how though? Gordon was the #4 pick, Harris #19. It's not like these are 2nd rounders.

I just think they are better than given credit.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I just think they are better than given credit.

I don't think Gordon is underrated. I mean he got a contract that paid him $21M a year. A solid player that can do a little of everything and young, not sure how high his ceiling is but he is definitely getting paid for it.

Harris is another guy that got paid, a solid player that is key to Denver but essentially he is the 3rd-4th best player on Denver. Kinda regressed a little this year but Denver has a lot of guys so understandable, but even with his efficiency.

Hard to say they are underrated though bc they got their big contracts. They are just not talked about a lot bc they don't exactly play for huge market teams in Denver and Orlando. That is understandable.

 

[dtgold88]

I don't think Gordon is underrated. I mean he got a contract that paid him $21M a year. A solid player that can do a little of everything and young, not sure how high his ceiling is but he is definitely getting paid for it.

Harris is another guy that got paid, a solid player that is key to Denver but essentially he is the 3rd-4th best player on Denver. Kinda regressed a little this year but Denver has a lot of guys so understandable, but even with his efficiency.

Hard to say they are underrated though bc they got their big contracts. They are just not talked about a lot bc they don't exactly play for huge market teams in Denver and Orlando. That is understandable.

Tobias Harris...and I think while understandable, your last comment is what makes them underrated IMO.

 

[shopson67]

Tobias Harris

I missed that too. Better off calling him Tobias than Harris lol.

 

[SteelersPride]

Underrated how though? Gordon was the #4 pick, Harris #19. It's not like these are 2nd rounders.

In the scheme of today’s nba. Being a top 5
Pick doesn’t make u a star

 

[shopson67]

In the scheme of today’s nba. Being a top 5
Pick doesn’t make u a star

Is Gordon really a star? No real accolades since he went pro. No all-rookie team, no all-star team, etc. He's more known for dunk contests and being in a bad movie. Tobias Harris has no pro accolades either.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Tobias Harris...and I think while understandable, your last comment is what makes them underrated IMO.

Tobias I can agree with but if we are talking about very good players on small market teams, the list can be quite lengthy

 

[SteelersPride]

Is Gordon really a star? No real accolades since he went pro. No all-rookie team, no all-star team, etc. He's more known for dunk contests and being in a bad movie. Tobias Harris has no pro accolades either.

I didn’t say star, underrated. Yes.