Corey Lemonier - 3rd Rd Steal

[NinerSickness]

Fluker and Mingo where they were drafted. Many like Mingo but not @#6.

I didn't expect Fluker to go so high, but I was talking him up prior to the draft. It was my dread that the Giants would get him at 19 (because NYG, Baltimore & Seattle are the Niners' biggest challenges this year IMO). I actually think he went right around where he should have gone.

I gave serious consideration to making Mingo my bust pick. I probably should have since the Browns picked him. He's Manny Lawson 2.0 IMO. But I went with Vaccaro because Mingo's athletic ability is pretty great, so he might develop into a great player. But he lacks core strength IMO; too lanky. AMAZING first step, but not a great core strength IMO.

I also thought DJ Hayden was reach.
Deandre Hopkins is about as sure a thing at WR as you're going to find. Might not have the ceiling of an AJ Green or a Julio Jones, but you gotta love WRs who are tough & catch everything (which is why I liked Aaron Dobson; I was hoping he'd slide to the 3rd round).

I was begging for Cornellius Carradine before the draft. I didn't think there was any way he'd fall to 31, and the Niners got him at 40. So I was quite happy that day. The only thing that would've made it better is if the Niners traded up for John Hankins, but I was extremely pissed to see the VaGiants take him at 49.

I wasn't happy the Cards got Alex Okafor in the 4th round. Trevardo Williams, Kenny Stills & Cornelius Washington (whom I like better in a 3-4 as a DE) were great value too IMO. The Bengals got a little too cute with taking Margus Hunt in the 2nd IMO; way too high for him.

What'd you think of Jamie Collins? I had the same reservations about him as I did Mingo; not great core strength. He almost seemed to bounce off of blockers. When a 4-3 team (Pats) drafted him I was like, "ok he's an OLB; that makes sense." But I'm reading the Pats want to use him as a DE. Seems like kind of a waste of such a high pick.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

@SeattleOspreys

Sickness is good at telling who's who when it comes to known pass rushers, but a lot of his prospect rankings depend heavily on the combine

I'm not a big combine guy because football production is where it's at.

The one area I've look at forever and Mayock has now beat this phrase into the ground, is
look at his hips.

Speed rushers better have the hips to turn and burn the corner or a Tackle will just shove
'em past the QB if using that move.

Db's can be downgraded if they're a bit stiff because the NFL will exploit 'em. Yes, I did
recommend Sherman for rd 4, sure everyone will say but it was documented on the old
espn board.

Why? Because sherman showed those hips and ability to play press corner with ball hawk
skills. To this day, I do not know how he slipped to round 5. I never saw Sherman play
CB at Stanford. I saw Sherman play 1 game, 1 and it was the Senior Bowl.

I thought he was the 2nd best player on the field. He showed he could press,
showed great hips and picked off a pass in the end zone by an Alabama QB whose
name escapes me. 1 game and I thought he was a 4th round grade and some coach
would pluck him earlier than 5 in the draft.

Churn 'em and burn 'em

 

[SeattleOspreys]

I was actually ready to throw the TV out the window when the Niners selected Crabtree. A lot of the people on the ESPN forum liked either Malcolm Jenkins and / or Everette Brown (we had some pretty heated Orakpo VS Brown arguments), but I thought Orakpo was a no-brainer. He was the guy I wanted at 10. I was hoping for BJ Raji, but Green Gay took him 1 pick prior. I was never a Crabtree hater, but I thought he was a TJ Houshmanzadeh caliber prospect, which paled in comparison to what I thought Orakpo could bring to the table.

The Redskins wanted to move up the board for Sanchez and trade with the Hawks, getting the
Skins selection. I was all over Orakpo, too, and the Hawks board couldn't stand the fact that I
called it that Curry was going to be a turd. Poor competition, no pass rush experience or ability,
lousy instincts, stiff hipped. How all the pundits thought he was the safest pick in the draft is
mind boggling.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

I didn't expect Fluker to go so high, but I was talking him up prior to the draft. It was my dread that the Giants would get him at 19 (because NYG, Baltimore & Seattle are the Niners' biggest challenges this year IMO). I actually think he went right around where he should have gone.

I gave serious consideration to making Mingo my bust pick. I probably should have since the Browns picked him. He's Manny Lawson 2.0 IMO. But I went with Vaccaro because Mingo's athletic ability is pretty great, so he might develop into a great player. But he lacks core strength IMO; too lanky. AMAZING first step, but not a great core strength IMO.

I also thought DJ Hayden was reach.
Deandre Hopkins is about as sure a thing at WR as you're going to find. Might not have the ceiling of an AJ Green or a Julio Jones, but you gotta love WRs who are tough & catch everything (which is why I liked Aaron Dobson; I was hoping he'd slide to the 3rd round).

I was begging for Cornellius Carradine before the draft. I didn't think there was any way he'd fall to 31, and the Niners got him at 40. So I was quite happy that day. The only thing that would've made it better is if the Niners traded up for John Hankins, but I was extremely pissed to see the VaGiants take him at 49.

I wasn't happy the Cards got Alex Okafor in the 4th round. Trevardo Williams, Kenny Stills & Cornelius Washington (whom I like better in a 3-4 as a DE) were great value too IMO. The Bengals got a little too cute with taking Margus Hunt in the 2nd IMO; way too high for him.

What'd you think of Jamie Collins? I had the same reservations about him as I did Mingo; not great core strength. He almost seemed to bounce off of blockers. When a 4-3 team (Pats) drafted him I was like, "ok he's an OLB; that makes sense." But I'm reading the Pats want to use him as a DE. Seems like kind of a waste of such a high pick.

NS, it is absolutely ridiculous that we have similar opinions on 95% of the prospects.
We agreed on everything. Hopkins is my favorite receiver in the draft because he
catches everything with his hands. Away from his body, above him, below.... Mingo
is in a dog fight to even start in Cleveland. Too situational and isn't guaranteed to be
a starter and with the LSU D line, should've been better. Hankins would've been great for you.

Where we differ is that I like Jamie Collins for an outside backer for the Hawks but PC
thought there was enough depth and with solid starters in Wags and KJ, didn't draft an OLB.
Collins has versatility that I wanted.

The guy the 9ers need to draft next year is Nix. I would be pissed if you did but I'd give up
a 3rd plus your 1st or even the Chiefs selection for Alex and move up. You have enough
depth to do it.

Why? I always wanted the Hawks to go to a 3-4 D that plays press coverage with long CB's.
We have the CB's and have a slight variation of the 3-4. If I was going to build the 3-4.
I would want an explosive Jack backer which you have and the 2nd guy is the space eating
NT. That frees up both Mikes to roam as heat seeking missiles. You don't need two
dominate inside backers if you have that monster NT.

Why was Ray Ray so productive as he lost his speed. Haloti Ngata (sp) took up blockers which
allowed Ray's instincts to be utillized to shoot the guard gaps and make plays. He didn't have
to disengage for G but could seek and destroy.

If I were you, I'd have a slight concern about your 2 - 5 tech's (depending on JS health) and NT.
Maybe you can enlighten me on your confidence because you are the expert of your squad.

Nix would be a dominant force for you guys if you're able to get him next year.

 

[NinerSickness]

NS, it is absolutely ridiculous that we have similar opinions on 95% of the prospects.
We agreed on everything. Hopkins is my favorite receiver in the draft because he
catches everything with his hands. Away from his body, above him, below.... Mingo
is in a dog fight to even start in Cleveland. Too situational and isn't guaranteed to be
a starter and with the LSU D line, should've been better. Hankins would've been great for you.

Where we differ is that I like Jamie Collins for an outside backer for the Hawks but PC
thought there was enough depth and with solid starters in Wags and KJ, didn't draft an OLB.
Collins has versatility that I wanted.

The guy the 9ers need to draft next year is Nix. I would be pissed if you did but I'd give up
a 3rd plus your 1st or even the Chiefs selection for Alex and move up. You have enough
depth to do it.

Why? I always wanted the Hawks to go to a 3-4 D that plays press coverage with long CB's.
We have the CB's and have a slight variation of the 3-4. If I was going to build the 3-4.
I would want an explosive Jack backer which you have and the 2nd guy is the space eating
NT. That frees up both Mikes to roam as heat seeking missiles. You don't need two
dominate inside backers if you have that monster NT.

Why was Ray Ray so productive as he lost his speed. Haloti Ngata (sp) took up blockers which
allowed Ray's instincts to be utillized to shoot the guard gaps and make plays. He didn't have
to disengage for G but could seek and destroy.

If I were you, I'd have a slight concern about your 2 - 5 tech's (depending on JS health) and NT.
Maybe you can enlighten me on your confidence because you are the expert of your squad.

Nix would be a dominant force for you guys if you're able to get him next year.

Good stuff. I'm going t continue to talk about this kind of stuff on the 2014 Draft / College FB thread during the offseason & during the season as well.

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/...51-2013-ncaa-fb-season-2014-nfl-draft-10.html

 

[NinerSickness]

Where we differ is that I like Jamie Collins for an outside backer for the Hawks but PC
thought there was enough depth and with solid starters in Wags and KJ, didn't draft an OLB.
Collins has versatility that I wanted.

That's actually where I like him: OLB. But I questioned his ability to hold up against the run in a 3-4. The Pats say they're going to use him as a DE, and I think that's kind of such a high pick because I doubt he can be a 3-down player on the line.

The guy the 9ers need to draft next year is Nix. I would be pissed if you did but I'd give up
a 3rd plus your 1st or even the Chiefs selection for Alex and move up. You have enough
depth to do it.

He was #1 on my wish list before he announced he wouldn't be declaring for the 2013 draft. With another good year, I think he might be out of the Niners' range in the ''14 draft; but I can hope.

If I were you, I'd have a slight concern about your 2 - 5 tech's (depending on JS health) and NT.
Maybe you can enlighten me on your confidence because you are the expert of your squad.

Nix would be a dominant force for you guys if you're able to get him next year.

Depth on the DL was actually my #2 concern last season (#1 was WR because I thought Moss was washed up). That's why I was extremely happy the Niners got Tank Carradine at 40 because they're going to use him as a guy with his hand in the dirt. As long as he's healthy, I like the DE depth a lot more since he'd be able to spell both JSmith and Ray McDonald.

NT is another story. They plan on using Glenn Dorsey at NT, and I like that; I think he's better than Sopoaga was last year. But behind him, there's nobody. They have Ian Williams & some guys who will be lucky to make the team. This is why I've been hoping all offseason the Niners snag Richard Seymour for 1 year. He can play some snaps all along the line & even start anywhere if there's an injury. I still remember how pissed I was when he was picked 1 pick ahead of Andre Carter in 2001. If the Niners stick with the NTs they have now, they'd better hope they stay healthy. They're both young, but Dorsey had a season-ending calf injury last year, so that's a concern.

Some of my way-too-early favourites for the 2014 draft (as far as bang for yer buck goes; I can be obvious & say Clowney, but that's obvious) are:

Nix
Antonio Richardson
C - James Stone (I'm not a Vols fan, but nobody seems to have noticed Stone, and Richardson looks like he could be every bit as good as the other tackles in this obscene tackle class)
Will Sutton
Ronald Powell (curious to see if he can bounce back from injury. He was lookin' pretty good before he got hurt. Fellow Gator Dominique Easley is an interesting prospect too).
Bradley Roby (this one is obvious, but I really, really like Roby. That kind of quickness & willingness to hit is rare IMO. Should be a top 10 pick).

Looks like Marqise Lee & Sammy Watkins are the best WRs in this next draft. I'm not sure what I think of 'em yet. I'll be keeping a close eye. Jerry Rice's cousin Jordan Matthews looks like a pretty good WR prospect too.

 

[NinerSickness]

Oh crap. I just realized I didn't move this over. Gotta re-do on the other thread...

 

[NinerSickness]

@ Osprey:

By the way, what do you think of Sidney Rice in Seattle's offense. There were rumours that seattle was going to cut him in the offseason. Do you see him in Seattle's long-term plans?

 

[SeattleOspreys]

@ Osprey:

By the way, what do you think of Sidney Rice in Seattle's offense. There were rumours that seattle was going to cut him in the offseason. Do you see him in Seattle's long-term plans?

I thought 2013 would be his last season but he may stick. Harper and williams would have to show
real promise for Rice to be let go. Maybe a re-structure, which is more likely.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

NS,

Did Corey get any PT vs Denver?

 

[NinerSickness]

NS,

Did Corey get any PT vs Denver?

Yes. I was on the road & only caught a little of the game in an I Love Teriyaki, so I didn't get to see him play. However, all the people who saw him play (of which I've heard) said he was extremely quick off the snap (my first observation about him at Auburn) and he got good pressure on the QB. I read some pretty high reviews about him & Vance McDonald.

 

[Jikkle]

I thought he looked pretty good all things considered and he definitely flashed the potential the the team saw in him when they drafted him.

I wasn't expecting anything out of him till next season but he might wind up getting himself in on pass downs in place of Brooks from time to time this season.

 

[CakesW]

Loved the Lemonier pick.. was hoping the Cardinals would snag him in the 3rd, but really can't complain with us picking up the Badger... although, it sure would have been nice having a legit pass rushing OLB.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Yes. I was on the road & only caught a little of the game in an I Love Teriyaki, so I didn't get to see him play. However, all the people who saw him play (of which I've heard) said he was extremely quick off the snap (my first observation about him at Auburn) and he got good pressure on the QB. I read some pretty high reviews about him & Vance McDonald.

On the ESPN boards, I had the write ups on both Lemonier and Vance going to the Hawks. However,
once we signed Avril, I knew that fantasy went out the window. Lemonier is just a kid. Give him a
couple of years.

 

[NinerSickness]

That's true. Lemonier was like the 3rd or 4th youngest defensive player in the entire draft if I remember correctly. Damontre Moore, John Hankins & David Amerson were among the youngest. I think Sharrif Floyd was THE youngest.

He's gonna need some time to develop, but I'm definitely happy to have him.

 

[NinerSickness]

I didn't realize this at the time, but the guy my guy Lemonier overpowered for a sack the first play Lemonier was on the field was none other than #1 overall pick Eric Fisher.

Did I mention this guy is going to be better than Barkevious Mingo and that people were crazy to let him slide to the 3rd round? (rhetorical question) From 20 days before the draft:

Another random note:

I'm not buying the negative feedback on Corey Lemonier. I read someone saying he had trouble getting off of blocks. That's usually a technique problem. But he's extremely quick off the snap, and he moves his feet a lot quicker than some of the pther DEs ranked ahead of him.

Kipe didn't even have him ranked in the first 2 rounds. That's ridiculous IMO. The guy has first-round talent. He's still pretty raw, but he's also one of the youngest players in the draft.

I'm starting to think the Niners shouldn't pick until around 50 (keep trading down) because there are so many players around that area who could help out immensely.

 

[MHSL82]

I didn't realize this at the time, but the guy my guy Lemonier overpowered for a sack the first play Lemonier was on the field was none other than #1 overall pick Eric Fisher.

Did I mention this guy is going to be better than Barkevious Mingo and that people were crazy to let him slide to the 3rd round? (rhetorical question) From 20 days before the draft:

Strength is strength, regardless of where you are trained and the RT and LT position overlap a bit in skills, but Fisher is learning a new position.

It looked like Baldwin was supposed to go where Smith first looked, but he kept running. But who knows? (Yeah, I know, another mention of Smith on a non-Smith thread by MHSL... but we did just get Baldwin, so this post is about him, not Smith! )

 

[purguy12]

kid looks like he is going to be good. Also Reid is looking like the right pick in the 1st.

 

[NinerSickness]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKM_6zL7g-k&list=PLFE_tPYRLiHPHrnaJ8Fqz3YjhFJUo_LNn&index=7

I couldn't find a gif of Lemonier's sack last night, but it's at 27:05 on this video. That was one of the most vicious & beautiful defensive plays I've ever seen. The dude was on Whitehurst before he was even done dropping back! Wow.

Steal of the draft!!!

 

[-AC-]

Corey Lemonier could have made Parys Haralson expendable - San Francisco 49ers | Examiner.com