Corey Lemonier - 3rd Rd Steal

[yossarian]

isn't his drafting ability still "mixed"? the 2011 class is going really well, but 2012 isn't. the 2013 draft clearly has potential, but only on paper. so it is sort of one good, one bad, and one "way too early to judge"?

no doubt he has to draft right, this applies to any GM for any team. Baalke might get away with one bad class, but two in a row will certainly hurt.

2012-- I think LaMichael James was a good pick, I think AJ Jenkins may turn out ok, Bill Walsh always said it takes receivers about 3 years to adapt to the NFL.

 

[deep9er]

2012-- I think LaMichael James was a good pick, I think AJ Jenkins may turn out ok, Bill Walsh always said it takes receivers about 3 years to adapt to the NFL.

yes, the book isn't closed on 2012, just meant is hasn't gone as well so far.

agree on Jenkins

 

[cyorgan]

More like Lemon Crushed. I don't think Lemonier's going to amount to much in the league.

 

[NinerSickness]

More like Lemon Crushed. I don't think Lemonier's going to amount to much in the league.

What's your reasoning for believing that?

 

[yossarian]

What's your reasoning for believing that?

An unholy combination of a greasy cheeseburger and the one "down" period in the NFL season.

 

[NinerSickness]

Very few football fans are obsessive enough to post on NFL forums. Of those, VERY few follow college football players and the draft / combine & all the evaluations closely enough to give an un-biased, informed opinion of prospects who are drafted. That's why I post all my opinions about player BEFORE they're drafted so I can't be called a homer or a hater.

So when I see predictions about how good players will be AFTER the draft, there's a very small chance it's an informed, un-biased opinion.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Very few football fans are obsessive enough to post on NFL forums. Of those, VERY few follow college football players and the draft / combine & all the evaluations closely enough to give an un-biased, informed opinion of prospects who are drafted. That's why I post all my opinions about player BEFORE they're drafted so I can't be called a homer or a hater.

So when I see predictions about how good players will be AFTER the draft, there's a very small chance it's an informed, un-biased opinion.

We'll have to talk Crabtree because I'm in that same boat as far as making predictions prior to
drafts because I know I'll hit some and miss some but I'm not afraid to prognosticate. Plus,
I do not follow any pundits or supposed expert picks because they are wrong more often that
you or I.

We'll go back a couple of drafts and see who you liked and we'll talk about the 2014 draft down
the road.

If it takes a few years to evaluate the draft, let's start at 2009 or 2010 when you have time.
I wrote a thread on that bleacher site but haven't since. Is there a forum for this
type of conversation or do you post right here?

I don't care if you're a fan of our rivals. Big deal. It's all about the football conversation
and being able to gain and share knowledge that interests me. Big debates will start on 9/8
and we can bust ballz at that time.

btw, I analyzed tape on Eric Reid and will share what I saw. You can tell me what your
opinions are. I would say my best college to Pro predictions over the past few years
have been in the secondary.

 

[deep9er]

everyone and his uncle has an opinion on the draft, no one is afraid to post his opinions? other than a 49er lost, nothing generates more posts than the draft.

on the flip side, if you make a ton of predictions, you can increase your chances of being right. you'd have more wrong too, but who's tracking you 2-3 years later?

 

[NinerSickness]

I was actually ready to throw the TV out the window when the Niners selected Crabtree. A lot of the people on the ESPN forum liked either Malcolm Jenkins and / or Everette Brown (we had some pretty heated Orakpo VS Brown arguments), but I thought Orakpo was a no-brainer. He was the guy I wanted at 10. I was hoping for BJ Raji, but Green Gay took him 1 pick prior. I was never a Crabtree hater, but I thought he was a TJ Houshmanzadeh caliber prospect, which paled in comparison to what I thought Orakpo could bring to the table.

Eric Reid was my favourite safety in what I thought was a weak safety draft this year. His biggest weakness was that he was a little slow to diagnose plays, but I think he was a pretty strong force against the top competition in college football. Like Lemonier, he was one of the younger & more athletic prospects at his position. If he can become quicker in that mental area, I think he'll be a staple at safety. However, I like him better at SS than FS, but the Niners want him at FS for now (I'm hoping that changes next year when Whitner's contract expires).

Let's see. 2009... Well, I hated on Phil Loadholt a lot & turned out to be wrong about him. Bingo & I were both big Michael Johnson fans. I already mentioned how mad I was at Scott McKillop over Jasper Brinkley. That was a mind-boggling pick IMO (thanks for nothing Scott boozehound McCloughan). McKillop tore both his ACL & MCL & never recovered, so he never got a chance to prove how inferior he was to Brinkley.

I'll have to look over the 2010 draft to jog my memory. This is the only place I talk NFL draft (now that we all left ESPN). Mostly in the sticky'd 2014 NFL draft / College Football thread.

 

[NinerSickness]

everyone and his uncle has an opinion on the draft, no one is afraid to post his opinions?

HA! Sorry Deep, but I have to laugh at the irony in this statement.

but who's tracking you 2-3 years later?

I am for one. I'm pretty petty in that regard.

 

[imac_21]

everyone and his uncle has an opinion on the draft, no one is afraid to post his opinions?

 

[NinerSickness]

Oh I almost forgot! 2009: I thought Glenn Coffee over Mike Wallace was wimpy, pathetic move. Wallace had some off-field concerns, but the 3rd round was still too low for him. I was hoping he'd slide to the 4th, but the Steelers proved they knew what they were doing...

Some random stuff I thought about 2010...

Well, I didn't like that draft a lot (mostly because I thought Anthony Davis was a reach), and it turned out to be a gold mine for the Niners. Like I said, I thought Anthony Davis was a reach; but you can't argue with taking a guy who's one of the top RTs in the league. I loved the Iupati pick & didn't think he was a reach at all.

I should have listened to imac about Taylor Mays. I thought he was at least going to be a good SS in the NFL. I blew it on that one.

Ironically, like I said earlier in this thread, I was mad the Niners took Navorro Bowman because I wanted Jimmy Graham (so did ChrisPozz - our SportsHoopla version of Adam Schefter). But it turned out well for the Niners, so I can't complain.

JPP: Let's just say I was wrong about him & leave it at that.

No lie: I though Greg Hardy was a steal in the 6th round. I could have easily been wrong if his medical issues proved to be his downfall like most teams thought they might, but all the way to the 6th round? I thought that was looney tunes. After about the 4th round it was getting a little ridiculous.

I loved Arrelious Benn (oops) but absolutely HATED Jimmy Clausen (I call him Mr. Pickle). I thought Carlos Dunlap was a steal, and that was one of the reasons I've been talking up the Bengals' management for a few years now. If they only had a QB who was better than mediocre they could be a force. Right now they're looking like the next Houston Texans...

I was glad the Seahawks took Golden Tate (whom I called Golden Taint) because, as it's clear by the nickname, I didn't like him. I thought Toby Gerhart was a ridiculous reach.

I had a bet with Clyde (one of the mods here) that tackle Charles Brown wouldn't be taken in the first round. He's yet to give me my cudos for that one.

Didn't like Dan Williams very much, but I did like Jerry Hughes (wrong). I LOVED Jahvid Best, but chalk him up with Bo Jackson and all the could've-beens who got hurt.

Last but not least, that was the easiest year for my annual first-round bust pick. I do one every year. It's been tough calling one the last 2 drafts. Higher pick = higher expectations, and I try to pick a guy who won't live up to 'em. Here's my list I'm sure everyone's Sick of seeing (pun intended):

'98: Curtis Enis
'99: Akili Smith
'00: Rashard Anderson
'01: Damoine Lewis
'02: Lito Sheppard (should've said Mike Rumph)
'03: Rex Grossman
'04: Chris Perry
'05: Braylon Edwards (went back & forth between him & Mike Williams but chose the higher pick)
'06: Vince Young
'07: Jamaal Anderson
'08: Matty Romo. I mean Ryan.
'09: Percy Harvin. Whoops!
'10: Timmy!!!
'11: Cam Newton
'12: Michael Brockers (not lookin' good for me on that one)
'13: Kenny Vaccaro (because all my hatorade on Matt Barkley was moot; he went in the 4th).

 

[I_am_1z]

I was actually ready to throw the TV out the window when the Niners selected Crabtree. A lot of the people on the ESPN forum liked either Malcolm Jenkins and / or Everette Brown (we had some pretty heated Orakpo VS Brown arguments), but I thought Orakpo was a no-brainer. He was the guy I wanted at 10. I was hoping for BJ Raji, but Green Gay took him 1 pick prior. I was never a Crabtree hater, but I thought he was a TJ Houshmanzadeh caliber prospect, which paled in comparison to what I thought Orakpo could bring to the table.

Eric Reid was my favourite safety in what I thought was a weak safety draft this year. His biggest weakness was that he was a little slow to diagnose plays, but I think he was a pretty strong force against the top competition in college football. Like Lemonier, he was one of the younger & more athletic prospects at his position. If he can become quicker in that mental area, I think he'll be a staple at safety. However, I like him better at SS than FS, but the Niners want him at FS for now (I'm hoping that changes next year when Whitner's contract expires).

Let's see. 2009... Well, I hated on Phil Loadholt a lot & turned out to be wrong about him. Bingo & I were both big Michael Johnson fans. I already mentioned how mad I was at Scott McKillop over Jasper Brinkley. That was a mind-boggling pick IMO (thanks for nothing Scott boozehound McCloughan). McKillop tore both his ACL & MCL & never recovered, so he never got a chance to prove how inferior he was to Brinkley.

I'll have to look over the 2010 draft to jog my memory. This is the only place I talk NFL draft (now that we all left ESPN). Mostly in the sticky'd 2014 NFL draft / College Football thread.

@SeattleOspreys

Sickness is good at telling who's who when it comes to known pass rushers, but a lot of his prospect rankings depend heavily on the combine

 

[NinerSickness]

@SeattleOspreys

Sickness is good at telling who's who when it comes to known pass rushers, but a lot of his prospect rankings depend heavily on the combine

@ I_am_1z

As they should.

I don't buy the stupid notion (mostly propagated by sports media personalities who don't know a thing about the draft) that the combine doesn't tell you anything. There's a reason NFL GMs attend the thing every offseason.

 

[imac_21]

@SeattleOspreys

Sickness is good at telling who's who when it comes to known pass rushers, but a lot of his prospect rankings depend heavily on the combine

That's only for WRs and CBs.

 

[I_am_1z]

@ I_am_1z

As they should.

I don't buy the stupid notion (mostly propagated by sports media personalities who don't know a thing about the draft) that the combine doesn't tell you anything. There's a reason NFL GMs attend the thing every offseason.

Of recent years the Raiders have been a laughing stock for relying on the combine too heavily. I still say the importance is more in the hand, arm, height, weight measurements than the times themselves.

 

[I_am_1z]

That's only for WRs and CBs.

How do you think Sam McGuffie will do in the NFL? He went undrafted but at the Rice pro-day was nothing short of amazing. 4.36 40-time/ 11'02 Broad Jump/ 42 Vertical/ 26 Bench reps/ 1.45 10 yard split/ 6.57 cone drill. Concussion history hindered him.

 

[imac_21]

How do you think Sam McGuffie will do in the NFL? He went undrafted but at the Rice pro-day was nothing short of amazing. 4.36 40-time/ 11'02 Broad Jump/ 42 Vertical/ 26 Bench reps/ 1.45 10 yard split/ 6.57 cone drill. Concussion history hindered him.

I don't think he'll do much at all. I didn't see him at Rice, but thought he was a huge disappointment at Michigan.

 

[NinerSickness]

Of recent years the Raiders have been a laughing stock for relying on the combine too heavily. I still say the importance is more in the hand, arm, height, weight measurements than the times themselves.

That's because, first of all, the Raiders are a crap organization who don't have a clue what they're doing both in terms of management and coaching. A Raider who fits your description is Robert Gallery. On the ESPN forum I called Gallery the most overrated tackle in years. Clearly I don't just look at someone's workouts & then give a prediction.

On the other hand, for every Fabian Washington (workout warrior bust) there's a player who was productive in college who didn't have the speed / size / agility / whatever combination that kept 'em from being productive in the NFL (Mike Williams, Lendale White, Anthony Gonzalez, Toby Gerhart, etc). And there are players who weren't extremely productive in college who had amazing physical gifts & turned out to be NFL studs like JPP, Audalius Thomas, etc).

The point is you can't ignore the combine. That's stupid. You use every piece of information you can get about a guy. Hand size; how far can they stretch their fingers past their feet; who are their friends; one on one matchups in college; 10-yard splits; 3cone drills; stats against ranked opponents, etc.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Oh I almost forgot! 2009: I thought Glenn Coffee over Mike Wallace was wimpy, pathetic move. Wallace had some off-field concerns, but the 3rd round was still too low for him. I was hoping he'd slide to the 4th, but the Steelers proved they knew what they were doing...

Some random stuff I thought about 2010...

Well, I didn't like that draft a lot (mostly because I thought Anthony Davis was a reach), and it turned out to be a gold mine for the Niners. Like I said, I thought Anthony Davis was a reach; but you can't argue with taking a guy who's one of the top RTs in the league. I loved the Iupati pick & didn't think he was a reach at all.

I liked Wallace but our GM waited and took Deon Butler who was what the 10th WR taken? I couldn't believe you passed on Earl for a RT that I thought was an overweight turd. I laughed. I figured AD would eat his way out of the NFL by now. Bad call there but I'd still have taken E.T. looking back. RT are an easier find than a ballhawking FS, imo.

I should have listened to imac about Taylor Mays. I thought he was at least going to be a good SS in the NFL. I blew it on that one.

We had debates on the Hawk board because we were in need for 2 safeties in the 2010 draft and Taylor Mays was completely off my board. He was Aaron Curry reincarnate in the Safety role. Taylor had straight ahead speed but his hips and reaction time were below avg so what speed he possessed was nullified. Great athlete in shorts but was part of that dominate 2008 Defense that covered his flaws.

The game that sticks out that I detailed was the game against Notre Dame and probably why PC took Tate in Round 2. Tate was a couple of steps ahead of the CB on a 9 route, Mays was playing cover 1 and by the time he flipped his hips and took off for the corner pylon, he arrived a second late and Tate hauled it in for a TD. Later in the game Tate took a crossing route, plowed over Mays and into the endzone. It may still be on you tube but haven't checked for a few years. Mays had bust written all over him and was glad you took him.

Ironically, like I said earlier in this thread, I was mad the Niners took Navorro Bowman because I wanted Jimmy Graham (so did ChrisPozz - our SportsHoopla version of Adam Schefter). But it turned out well for the Niners, so I can't complain.

JPP: Let's just say I was wrong about him & leave it at that.

The Hawks didn't have a 3rd round pick due to the weak trade for Charlie Whitehurst, so I skipped those 3rd rounders. I remember watching you tube of JPP doing back handsprings looking for more tape. I watched their bowl game to check out, I believe it was G Selvie and Nate Allen who was a "potential"
Hawk safety. I thought JPP was a long term project and didn't want him. I had my eyes set on Earl Thomas, if Eric Berry was off the board by #6. I wanted the Hawks to move up to #11 to guarantee to get E.T.

No lie: I though Greg Hardy was a steal in the 6th round. I could have easily been wrong if his medical issues proved to be his downfall like most teams thought they might, but all the way to the 6th round? I thought that was looney tunes. After about the 4th round it was getting a little ridiculous.

I believe what you say. I know guys that watch game tape that know more than many GM's, who can get caught up in athletes in shorts and not production on the field. Hardy was supposed to be a lock for 1st round going into the season. I was shocked he slipped that far.

I loved Arrelious Benn (oops) but absolutely HATED Jimmy Clausen (I call him Mr. Pickle). I thought Carlos Dunlap was a steal, and that was one of the reasons I've been talking up the Bengals' management for a few years now. If they only had a QB who was better than mediocre they could be a force. Right now they're looking like the next Houston Texans...

Had no real opinion on Benn. I argued against Clausen on the Hawk board because again, we needed a QB and were using band-aids. Clausen threw 9 route fades to Tate, had Michael Floyd and Kyle Rudolph at TE. You know who reminded me of Clausen = Mark Sanchez = Matt Barkley. Everyone hyped Barkley last year and heading into 2012. Barley is Mr. Bubble Screen, check down and another 9 route fade guy. He is weak at stick throws and down the seams with any zip or touch. The Eagles is a perfect place for him because he has a lot of weapons if he starts. Barkley is a game manager.

I was glad the Seahawks took Golden Tate (whom I called Golden Taint) because, as it's clear by the nickname, I didn't like him. I thought Toby Gerhart was a ridiculous reach.

I loved Texas Longhorns from 2008-2010 and wanted to turn Seattle into the Seattle Longhorns. I had 'em all. JCharles in rd 2, 2008, JFinley in rd 3, 2008, BOrakpo in rd 1, 2009, HMelton in rd 3, 2009, Earl Thomas in rd 1, 2010. I liked Curtis Brown for a slot CB, who went to Stealers. Sounds like bs but Cakes on zona board verifies JCharles, everyone on Hawks board knew I hated Curry and wanted Orakpo and E.T. was broadcast in multiple forums. Curry couldn't turn the corner = no pass rush, couldn't flip his hips to Cover VD = beat. I'm not a combine guy but his tight hips were exposed and his times in the 3-cone and 20 yd shuttle were middle of LB's and smoked by Cushing, Mathews and Laurinitis. I warned our board that Curry was a bust in the making but NOBODY and I mean nobody would buy it.

I liked Tate a bit because of his playmaking versatility. Tate reminded me a bit of Hines Ward and showed that cut back block on Lee that he did have some Ward in him.

I had a bet with Clyde (one of the mods here) that tackle Charles Brown wouldn't be taken in the first round. He's yet to give me my cudos for that one.

My bleacher report article that is still archived last I checked had the following. If Eric Berry was on the board at #6, Berry was a no-brainer because it meant that Okung, TWilliams, McCoy and Suh were off the board. Now Hawks have to go LT, a huge need and not ready for BPA in this rebuild. I had us dropping down and taking Charles Brown. late in round 1.

If Berry was off the board, I projected that Trent Williams would be there at #6 and the Hawks would grab him. I was shocked that TW went to the Skins which gave us Okung. I like Okung better based on a few games. Brian "the Beast" Orakpo who I wanted in 2009 beat up both Trent Williams and Phil Loadholt but couldn't bull rush or beat Okung. Only guy that Orakpo couldn't dominate.

Then I prayed we'd get Earl Thomas as the FS we needed and move up to #11. That 2010 draft, 1st for PC/JS was a banner draft and changed our fortunes. I was scared both you were going to draft him when you moved up and when the Eagles moved up and needed a FS, I guaranteed that Philly was going to steal Earl Thomas. Eagles took Brandon Graham and I was ecstatic. E.T. phone home to Seattle at pick #14.

Didn't like Dan Williams very much, but I did like Jerry Hughes (wrong). I LOVED Jahvid Best, but chalk him up with Bo Jackson and all the could've-beens who got hurt.

I did like Dan Williams and thought he was a great pick by Zona. I also loved Jahvid Best and posted vids and broke down his runs. There were pundits and a friend of Pete Carroll that had the Hawks taking CJ Spiller and Derrick Morgan. Not big on RB's in top 10. I couldn't stand Morgan and thought Best was a steal by Detroit. Best did have concussion issues at Cal so it was risky.

Last but not least, that was the easiest year for my annual first-round bust pick. I do one every year. It's been tough calling one the last 2 drafts. Higher pick = higher expectations, and I try to pick a guy who won't live up to 'em. Here's my list I'm sure everyone's Sick of seeing (pun intended):

'98: Curtis Enis
'99: Akili Smith
'00: Rashard Anderson
'01: Damoine Lewis
'02: Lito Sheppard (should've said Mike Rumph)
'03: Rex Grossman
'04: Chris Perry
'05: Braylon Edwards (went back & forth between him & Mike Williams but chose the higher pick)
'06: Vince Young
'07: Jamaal Anderson
'08: Matty Romo. I mean Ryan.
'09: Percy Harvin. Whoops!
'10: Timmy!!!
'11: Cam Newton
'12: Michael Brockers (not lookin' good for me on that one)
'13: Kenny Vaccaro (because all my hatorade on Matt Barkley was moot; he went in the 4th).

Most of my guys were Qb's. I didn't like Eli Manning , didn't like Matt Jones, didn't like Vince Young and Matt Leinart, didn't like JaMarcus Russell, didn't like Matt Ryan , pissed we drafted Aaron Curry and didn't like Sanchez (wanted Orakpo), didn't like your Anthony Davis (I called him a tub of goo) , didn't want Cam Newton, Poe/weeden/irvin in 2012, Fluker and Mingo where they were drafted. Many like Mingo but not @#6.