Conference Semifinals: Boston Celtics (2) vs Philadelphia 76ers (3)

[Sparhawk]

Here's what the Sixers have done since "The Process":

2017-18 - 3rd in the division, 3rd in the East, Lost in the Conference Semifinals 4-1
2018-19 - 2nd in the division, 3rd in the East, Lost in the Conference Semifinals 4-3
2019-20 - 3rd in the division, 6th in the East, Lost in the First Round 4-0
2020-21 - 1st in the division, 1st in the East, Lost in the Conference Semifinals 4-3
2021-22 - 2nd in the division, 4th in the East, Lost in the Conference Semifinals 4-2
2022-23 - 2nd in the division, 3rd in the East, Lost in the Conference Semifinals 4-3

Now, like I said, but these Sixers fans seem to not be able to read very well, it's not just winning championships. I'll actually lay it out very nice and easily for even the dumbest Sixers fan to understand.

From 2017-2023 -
0 NBA Titles
0 NBA Finals appearances
1 Division Title
5-6 in Playoff Series

Here is also the "talent" that the Sixers tanked for. Once again, I'll lay it out very nice and easily for even the dumbest, most idiotic of Sixers fans can understand:

Jahlil Okafor, 3rd pick
Ben Simmons 1st pick
Markell Fultz, 1st pick
Zhaire Smith, 16th pick
Ty Jerome, 24th pick

So no, it's not just about not winning championships. It's also about not drafting well, it's about not even being the best team in the division, not even playing in the NBA finals, the team not showing up in the playoffs, spending all this money in free agency just to lose in the conference semifinals.

I know that was a lot of words and numbers and letters so let me just Tl;dr this for the dumb Sixers fans that can't read.

The whole point of playing a professional sport is to win a championship. If the goal of "The Process" was NOT to win a championship, then Sam Hinkie was setting up the Sixers for failure from the jump, because tanking for 5 years with the goal NOT being to win a championship is completely and utterly ridiculous. If the goal of "The Process" was to win a championship, then, by ALL definitions, they FAILED and it wasn't a success. If you are a Sixers fan and are happy with being under .500 in the playoffs, not making the Finals and only winning 1 division title, then hey, great job! I'm happy that you're happy! But if you are not happy with those numbers, then I'm sorry, but you have to admit that The Process didn't work.

That's my TED Talk, I'll entertain any respectful discussion.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

And unsuccessful ways, apparently. The Sixers are a perennial playoff team, I mean that's something I guess, but they aren't winning anything substantial and if I'm tanking for 5 years, it ain't gonna be with the goal in mind to JUST make the playoffs and never make it to a conference final. Like, I'm at least gunning to win a title or 2 after stacking up all those lottery picks.

Dude, success for my timberwolves is to tank five years to get a play in game!

 

[eaglesnut]

They should have never asserted the Colangelos into Philly. Agreed.

However, there is a 0% chance the league would screw Philly over on purpose. They inserted the Colangelos to insure the team was making short term moves to win games.

The dumb part was that Hinkie was ready to do just that. The tanking part of the process was over.

That's just the cover story to get him in there. Once in he was in he was an embarrassment in and out of the office. Not just incompetent.

Inserting your own person is screwing them over on purpose. That's the same thing. It's like any other undercover work. Your allegiance is not to the entity you are publicly representing. They screwed them over on purpose. Got paid by the Sixers. Worked for that city. Undermined the whole operation with the blessing from the league.

 

[eaglesnut]

In assessing the era one has to be fair in acknowledging that Silver and the NBA decided to mess with the Sixers front office in an unprecedented way. That’s not the whole reason why Sixers management has made mistakes like @eaglesnut says but it’s absolutely part of the story.

It's not entirely separable. What other shit was colangelo doing behind his closed door? Weakening the scouting department? Giving information to other teams? Making the lives of his players more difficult? Not bringing up young talent? Passing on good trade opportunities because it would have made the sixers better? Trading the young resources and locking in a #4 piece for #2 money like Tobias Harris? Where does it end once you were inserted to cause problems?

 

[tlance]

I just noticed that I'm arguing with a bunch of butthurt Sixers fans, of course they cherry pick what I say haha. Now that I know that, I'm not so mad anymore, more amused than anything. Now I can have some real fun with this!

I am not a 6er fan.

I firmly believe the process would have yielded multiple championships if the post process was handled better.

They completely whiffed on a 1st overall pick, made trades giving away incredible assets like Mikal Bridges, failed to trade Simmons before cratering his value, failed to retain Jimmy Butler and failed to sign any impact free agents when they had cap space.
Lastly, Brett Brown was not the culture setter they needed in place when they had their best teams.

It was a comedy of errors and they still had some teams who were capable of contending.

 

[Yo Tee]

Dude, success for my timberwolves is to tank five years to get a play in game!

What do you think success looks like for my Hornets? Just getting there would be great! haha

 

[Yo Tee]

I am not a 6er fan.

I firmly believe the process would have yielded multiple championships if the post process was handled better.

They completely whiffed on a 1st overall pick, made trades giving away incredible assets like Mikal Bridges, failed to trade Simmons before cratering his value, failed to retain Jimmy Butler and failed to sign any impact free agents when they had cap space.
Lastly, Brett Brown was not the culture setter they needed in place when they had their best teams.

It was a comedy of errors and they still had some teams who were capable of contending.

I agree, and all that you said there make me have the opinion that the Process didn't work. It didn't yield the results that they were hoping for. For whatever reason, it didn't work.

 

[shopson67]

Then you don't understand what Sam Hinkie was trying to achieve.

The NBA didn't like the methods and took steps to prevent them. The biggest problem with that is they aren't preventing other teams from following that same tanking path. Hinkie went down because he was bold enough to talk about it aloud. There's nothing different in what OKC and Houston are doing and what Hinkie was doing, they just don't brag about it.

The league did fine the Mavs $750K for tanking the end of the season to try to keep their protected first rounder from going to the Knicks, so maybe the penalties will come, but thus far the rules haven't applied to everyone equally.

 

[shopson67]

I just noticed that I'm arguing with a bunch of butthurt Sixers fans, of course they cherry pick what I say haha. Now that I know that, I'm not so mad anymore, more amused than anything. Now I can have some real fun with this!

 

[fightinfunbags]

I agree, and all that you said there make me have the opinion that the Process didn't work. It didn't yield the results that they were hoping for. For whatever reason, it didn't work.

You don’t even have the same leadership that acquired the assets and did the tank making the decisions that failed. It’s two completely different lanes and that’s the thing you can’t see. If Hinkie was responsible for picking Ben Simmons, trading Mikal Bridges, choosing Ben Simmons over Jimmy Butler you could merge them as you’re trying to do. That didn’t happen.

 

[shopson67]

I stopped reading after "How fucking dumb are you". I don't tolerate disrespect for no reason anymore. Fuck you, bitch.

Man, you can't read huh? How fucking dumb are you? Can't make out any other letters or words that I said other than "no championship"? Seem to be projecting a bit, huh?

 

[shopson67]

What do you think success looks like for my Hornets? Just getting there would be great! haha

Getting new ownership should be a great start.

 

[Yo Tee]

You get what you give. I was given disrespect for no reason so I give it back. Seems fair to me.

 

[Yo Tee]

Getting new ownership should be a great start.

MJ is the MJ of bad owners, TBH.

 

[Yo Tee]

You don’t even have the same leadership that acquired the assets and did the tank making the decisions that failed. It’s two completely different lanes and that’s the thing you can’t see. If Hinkie was responsible for picking Ben Simmons, trading Mikal Bridges, choosing Ben Simmons over Jimmy Butler you could merge them as you’re trying to do. That didn’t happen.

Hinkie was responsible for drafting Jahlil Okafor and MCW. In 2014, injury-prone Nerlens Noel was traded to Philly, that was on Hinkie, not Colangelo. Drafting was a shit show before Colangelo came in outside of Embiid. Can't blame new management over drafting.

The Process was meant to bring success to Philly basketball. It improved Philly basketball, but the only "trophy" they got to show for it is 1 division title. If winning that division title was the goal, they congrats, it worked. But if the goal was to reach the finals, at the VERY LEAST, then it was a failure and it doesn't matter why it was a failure because it doesn't change the fact that it was a failure.

Let me compare it in this way:

Company A has CEO A and they miss their profit projections. If Company A is required to fire CEO A and hire CEO B, does that just automatically negate that the missed their goals? No. They still missed their goals. Now, Company A goes year after year with CEO B and their margins are better but they still miss their goals, did they have success? No. They still missed their goals. Yes, they were better against their goals but they still missed the goal. Philly is Company A, Hinkie is CEO A and Colangelo is CEO B. Yes, the Sixers have improved, but ultimately miss the goal every year.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Hinkie was responsible for drafting Jahlil Okafor and MCW.

MCW was like the 11th pick. The Sixers used that asset great. He went and won ROTY but they assessed that he didn’t have a J and would quickly fizzle out. They used the time wisely and maximized that asset in a trade. Okafor was a poor pick. But if you go back and read mock drafts from that time you’ll see he was the consensus. If you want to be critical of Hinkie not getting creative or not seeing what others saw that’s fine. At the time, the investment in Embiid who was in the middle of not getting on the court for 2 years was something they felt like they had to hedge. The pick didn’t work. That happens to a lot of teams

In 2014, injury-prone Nerlens Noel was traded to Philly, that was on Hinkie, not Colangelo.

That was a particularly weak draft. They had a big that projected as shot blocking and the fulcrum of a defense. He was rated by some to be the best prospect in the draft because people projected him being able to develop some semblance of an offensive game. Again…a pick in a weak draft that didn’t work out.

Drafting was a shit show before Colangelo came in outside of Embiid.

You don’t understand the Process. The Process is geared to find a generational talent with multiple swings at doing it. One year you get LeBron. Another year that pick is Anthony Bennett. It’s not an exact science as you’ve already demonstrated. Embiid is the white whale. That’s huge. That’s success for the Process with still one more 1st overall pick (Simmons) made by Colangelo and the Kings pick that would be 3rd and traded by Colangelo to get to 1 to draft Fultz. They got Embiid and the assets Hinkie acquired gave them the only two number one overall picks the Process would have. Both were made by Colangelo. You’re coming at Hinkie for Jah and yet you’re not putting any focus on Simmons over Brandon Ingram and TRADING UP to value Fultz over Tatum.

Can't blame new management over drafting.

Actually you can and I just did. Let’s add Colangelo in the Ben Simmons draft when they had 3 number 1 picks, he stands pat and takes Timothe Luwawa Cabbarot and Furkan Korkmaz over Pascal Siakam. You couldn’t be more wrong because you haven’t followed this closely.

The Process was meant to bring success to Philly basketball. It improved Philly basketball, but the only "trophy" they got to show for it is 1 division title. If winning that division title was the goal, they congrats, it worked. But if the goal was to reach the finals, at the VERY LEAST, then it was a failure and it doesn't matter why it was a failure because it doesn't change the fact that it was a failure.

Here you are again just repeating yourself. You’re a chatty Cathy doll. Pull the string
No championship
No championship
No championship

Let me compare it in this way:

Company A has CEO A and they miss their profit projections. If Company A is required to fire CEO A and hire CEO B, does that just automatically negate that the missed their goals? No. They still missed their goals. Now, Company A goes year after year with CEO B and their margins are better but they still miss their goals, did they have success? No. They still missed their goals. Yes, they were better against their goals but they still missed the goal. Philly is Company A, Hinkie is CEO A and Colangelo is CEO B. Yes, the Sixers have improved, but ultimately miss the goal every year.

Your analogy is garbage. In your definition success is only measured in a championship. You’ve already said this. We are talking past each other because:
1) You’re incredibly stubborn and because of it you can’t realize the immense difference in making the decision to tank as a way to acquire assets and then executing what you do with those assets are two entirely different things at their core but then on top of that was run by two different leaders. The mistakes made lie with Colangelo. Let’s talk about mistakes made when the franchise was rudderless because Colangelo couldn’t even be a professional and got zapped in Burnergate. Those were immense and that’s squarely on the shoulders of the Colangelo’s and not on the partnership of Brett Brown and Elton Brand who were propped up into roles they couldn’t perform.

The Colangelos were the most negatively impactful group in this whole shit show. That’s not saying that the others involved didn’t make mistakes as well. That’s being fair and assessing where the blame lies for the greatest mistakes. That’s why Sixers fans lash out at Adam Silver. He is the one that put that filthy god damn family in the Sixers front office.

 

[The Q]

The NBA didn't like the methods and took steps to prevent them. The biggest problem with that is they aren't preventing other teams from following that same tanking path. Hinkie went down because he was bold enough to talk about it aloud. There's nothing different in what OKC and Houston are doing and what Hinkie was doing, they just don't brag about it.

The league did fine the Mavs $750K for tanking the end of the season to try to keep their protected first rounder from going to the Knicks, so maybe the penalties will come, but thus far the rules haven't applied to everyone equally.

Presti said it out loud too now

So sadly, now (and I emphasize now) sixers fan actually have a point

 

[fightinfunbags]

Presti said it out loud too now

So sadly, now (and I emphasize now) sixers fan actually have a point

I’m still doubling down on the distinguishing line (talking about Fight Club) not being a worthy reason for a commissioner to step in and meddle in that team’s front office. Ok. Dock them a pick or picks. Assess a big fine. Forcing a man into their front office so he can hire his son is just a level of punishment that should never be employed in any organized sports league. On its face, you tell sports fans what they did to warrant that kind of punishment and it’s stuff that at any given time in the last 20-25 years you’ll find 3-5 teams using the same tactic and they’ll look at you like you’re crazy because on its face it’s an insane over reaction. Now tell people the big discrepancy in punishments is about making public mention of the tactic and if they just never admitted the intent nothing would have happened and you are now on to some Orwellian shit of illogical.

 

[shopson67]

I’m still doubling down on the distinguishing line (talking about Fight Club) not being a worthy reason for a commissioner to step in and meddle in that team’s front office. Ok. Dock them a pick or picks. Assess a big fine. Forcing a man into their front office so he can hire his son is just a level of punishment that should never be employed in any organized sports league. On its face, you tell sports fans what they did to warrant that kind of punishment and it’s stuff that at any given time in the last 20-25 years you’ll find 3-5 teams using the same tactic and they’ll look at you like you’re crazy because on its face it’s an insane over reaction. Now tell people the big discrepancy in punishments is about making public mention of the tactic and if they just never admitted the intent nothing would have happened and you are now on to some Orwellian shit of illogical.

Of course. The NBA just doesn't want their dirty little secrets acknowledged publicly, and tanking is one of them.

Forcing the hire was just weird. It's one thing to force out a guy, but naming his replacement instead of the team doing so is just bizarre.

 

[tlance]

I agree, and all that you said there make me have the opinion that the Process didn't work. It didn't yield the results that they were hoping for. For whatever reason, it didn't work.

I think that is the difference though.

When most people talk about “the process”, that is the tanking part that ended when Hinkie was fired and they started trying to win.

You seem to be defining the relative success of the process by their failures after it ended.

IMO, the process worked because it left the 6ers with multiple star players, cap space and other highly valuable assets.

They just squandered what they had.