Concerns you have about Off & Def

[Darrell Green Fan]

Not a chance LeRibeus starts this year and nobody consider him "good", I'll leave it at that.

Back to ST how about we find a punt returner? This has been problamatic forever and Crowder didn't show much, which was kind of a surprise.

 

[gkekoa]

Not a chance LeRibeus starts this year and nobody consider him "good", I'll leave it at that.

Back to ST how about we find a punt returner? This has been problamatic forever and Crowder didn't show much, which was kind of a surprise.

So zero percent chance that Leribeus can improve? It is an impossibility instead of an improbability? Some of you are tragically sad.

We have one of the best PR in the game. We just aren't going to risk him in near pointless action.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

So zero percent chance that Leribeus can improve? It is an impossibility instead of an improbability? Some of you are tragically sad.

We have one of the best PR in the game. We just aren't going to risk him in near pointless action.

We've had this discussion already. He is entering year 5, he is what he is.

If you can supply a list of Redskins who made the dramtic shift from bad (or at best below average) to good enough to be a solid starter on a good team (and not a weak link that the team won in spite of which was the case with Ribeye last year, Chris Chester in '12) in year 5 or later in their career I'd like to see it. Below is mine:

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Regarding your second point I agree we have one of the best. But if they don't want to play him there we don't have a punt returner so I'm not sure what DJax has to do with the point that we need a PR.

 

[gkekoa]

We've had this discussion already. He is entering year 5, he is what he is.

If you can supply a list of players who made the dramtic shift from bad (or at best below average) to good enough to start on a good team in year 5 or later I'd like to see it. Below is mine:

Well Kurt Warner comes to mind for me. He couldn't even make the NFL until he was 30.

Here are a few more...
James Harrison
Rob Ninkovich
Richie Incognito

There are many players that took a while to improve or even find the right fit. Tony Mandarich, one of the most overhyped prospects in NFL history actually turned into a serviceable guard later in his career. I am not saying Leribeus will be good but to say it is impossible for him to improve or start is ignorant.

 

[gkekoa]

Regarding your second point I agree we have one of the best. But if they don't want to play him there we don't have a punt returner so I'm not sure what DJax has to do with the point that we need a PR.

The point is...if all you can do is PR, you don't have a roster spot.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Well Kurt Warner comes to mind for me. He couldn't even make the NFL until he was 30.

Here are a few more...
James Harrison
Rob Ninkovich
Richie Incognito

There are many players that took a while to improve or even find the right fit. Tony Mandarich, one of the most overhyped prospects in NFL history actually turned into a serviceable guard later in his career. I am not saying Leribeus will be good but to say it is impossible for him to improve or start is ignorant.

Yeah but I asked for Redskins because let's face it, we really don't know how bad or good guys like Incognito were in their first few years. All I know is he was a full time starter by year 4, something our boy was not. With a Redskin as least we have a better understanding of the player. And I can't think of one Redskin in my lifetime that does what you are hoping Ribeye does.

Edit: I see now you quoted me before I changed my request to Redskins so I understand your post better now.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

The point is...if all you can do is PR, you don't have a roster spot.

Yeah I agree. But again the point is other teams have somehow found that guy while we continue the search that has been going on since Brian Mitchell. I just want our teams to actually win a game for once instead of giving us relief when they didn't cost us one.

 

[gkekoa]

Yeah I agree. But again the point is other teams have somehow found that guy while we continue the search that has been going on since Brian Mitchell. I just want our teams to actually win a game for once instead of giving us relief when they didn't cost us one.

Pretty sure we have won a few games with FGs...that is STs.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Pretty sure we have won a few games with FGs...that is STs.

Why must you argue every single point I make? The fact is our punt return men have been unproductive for years, decades actually, and that is what we have been talking about. Punt returns have yet to win us a game that I can recall and has cost us plenty over the years including the opener last season. The list of returners has included but is not limited too since it's off the top of my head the following and none have been effective:

Jamison Crowder (maybe he will improve on his 5.3 YPR 0 TD but that's in question)
Chris Thompson
Andre Roberts
Josh Morgan
Brandon Banks
Antwaan Randal el
Chad Morton

 

[gkekoa]

Why must you argue every single point I make? The fact is our punt return men have been unproductive for years, decades actually, and that is what we have been talking about. Punt returns have yet to win us a game that I can recall and has cost us plenty over the years including the opener last season. The list of returners has included but is not limited too since it's off the top of my head the following and none have been effective:

Jamison Crowder (maybe he will improve on his 5.3 YPR 0 TD but that's in question)
Chris Thompson
Andre Roberts
Josh Morgan
Brandon Banks
Antwaan Randal el
Chad Morton

How many games have been won and lost on a PR? Very few. You are obsessing over an inconsequential position. 5.3 does suck donkey balls but the league leader was only at 12. Punt returners have a very small sample to actually come up with an average so Crowder couldn't actually distort the truth because he didn't break any big returns.

There were only 11 PR TDs last season. Only 16 players had a return of 50+ yards. I think your idea of PR is distorted and you care more about splash plays than good football. The truth is...the PR has little to do with success of a Punt return (few exceptions), and it has more to do with the punt and the coverage.

Personally, I don't think Crowder was good at it but I don't remember him muffing any punts and that is probably the most important stat. I wouldn't risk Crowder's health on PRs anyways. For me, a PR should just be a guy...a fourth or fifth WR/RB/CB.

 

[Breed]

I like our kickers far as STs go, great call on Hopkins, Sty, Dean and Coach. He's convinced me last year and Way's been good for the Skins as well. I still don't trust our coverage teams and punt coverage cost the Skins, or were a big reason why, they lost to the Phins.

The short yardage running game and short yardage blocking was pretty subpa last yearr and I'm not sure either have been upgraded.

I do worry somewhat about keeping all the pass catchers happy. As well as Djax seemingly being the only pass catcher allowed to run beyond 15 yards of the LOS on pass plays it seems.

I'm kinda diggin the defense though. Though I gotta ask. It seems like, at least from the way all the in-the-know-draft-niks were talking. That interior DL were growing on trees this year. Yet somehow the Skins seemed to not only not get one, they lost a couple in the process.

Looking for big things from RK and JG. And I think DHall, with his old and injury prone ass, does some ballhawkin this year. I think our CBs overall as a group are legit.....been a while since that could be said.

 

[Breed]

Jamison Crowder (maybe he will improve on his 5.3 YPR 0 TD but that's in question)

Replace JC with Ross on pt ret and people might think I'm hatin on Cuz, I'm not, but he missed or didn't see JC a few times on plays downfield particularly late in the season. i'm hopeful though that with Cuz's firmly entrenched as our QB, a little peeved about not getting signed long term, and another offseason with all the fellas together. We'll see the continuing and maturation of the "You like that!" offense.

 

[Sportster 72]

I think there is a very good chance Cousins gets signed before the year starts.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

How many games have been won and lost on a PR? Very few. You are obsessing over an inconsequential position. 5.3 does suck donkey balls but the league leader was only at 12. Punt returners have a very small sample to actually come up with an average so Crowder couldn't actually distort the truth because he didn't break any big returns.

There were only 11 PR TDs last season. Only 16 players had a return of 50+ yards. I think your idea of PR is distorted and you care more about splash plays than good football. The truth is...the PR has little to do with success of a Punt return (few exceptions), and it has more to do with the punt and the coverage.

Personally, I don't think Crowder was good at it but I don't remember him muffing any punts and that is probably the most important stat. I wouldn't risk Crowder's health on PRs anyways. For me, a PR should just be a guy...a fourth or fifth WR/RB/CB.

I think you are so used to below average punt returns that you think it's the norm. We lost the field position battle week after week and yeah I do think that's important. You are right, that is a function of coverage too but we need a guy to actually make a few plays for us and that simply hasn't happened in a very long time. Brian Mitchell and before that Mike Nelms were big reasons for our success. Hell Devon Hester may have been the one of the most important players on a marginal Bears team that actually made a Super Bowl with Rex. As you said these guys are the exception but I don't think it's asking too much to have a guy back there who is at least a threat to be a difference maker. And they don't necessarily need to take it to the house or even break a 50 yarder to be a difference maker.

I think it's important and so did the team, that's why they paid big money to guys like deoin, ARE and Chad Morton to try to find an answer. When the hole has been this glaring for this long yeah I think it's important to fix.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Can we improve on punt/kickoff returns - certainly and it would be nice

Is that going to be the defining reason that will improve Team in 2016 - for me, I think not.

 

[gkekoa]

I think you are so used to below average punt returns that you think it's the norm. We lost the field position battle week after week and yeah I do think that's important. You are right, that is a function of coverage too but we need a guy to actually make a few plays for us and that simply hasn't happened in a very long time. Brian Mitchell and before that Mike Nelms were big reasons for our success. Hell Devon Hester may have been the one of the most important players on a marginal Bears team that actually made a Super Bowl with Rex. As you said these guys are the exception but I don't think it's asking too much to have a guy back there who is at least a threat to be a difference maker. And they don't necessarily need to take it to the house or even break a 50 yarder to be a difference maker.

I think it's important and so did the team, that's why they paid big money to guys like deoin, ARE and Chad Morton to try to find an answer. When the hole has been this glaring for this long yeah I think it's important to fix.

Ok...I showed you the statistical difference between the top guy in the NFL, Amendola at 12 per return and Crowder at almost 6.

I will add more. If you take away the 82 harder of Amendola, he is down to 8.8 per return. Only 3 yards better than Crowder.

You can do this with every returner in the NFL and that is why I showed you how rare big returns are today. I am showing you these big exciting returns are a rarity.

Hester played in a different era. That day and age is gone. The rules prevent KR difference makers...and punters are much better today because it is an actual profession these days. League minimum is over 500k and it pays to practice today. Directional kicking, back spin, and player strength at the punter position has killed the return game.

 

[redskin4209]

Improvements well for start run def, pass rush and much better tackling.

 

[skinsdad62]

well kelsey young is another FA do everything guy who can be a returner if he can be trusted

GK is using some stats to analyze the cost effectiveness of that type of guy we need a game changer on the team for sure

 

[gkekoa]

well kelsey young is another FA do everything guy who can be a returner if he can be trusted

GK is using some stats to analyze the cost effectiveness of that type of guy we need a game changer on the team for sure

I am using stats to make sense of a position and how much angst we should have about not having a great punt returner. I used stats to back up the statements I have made. You don't need a game changer to return punts. You also don't need to put your valuable position players in the most vulnerable positions on a part of the game that is truly less important.