Completely Non-FF Thoughts

[SteelersPride]

you can be right at the time and wrong currently...

or to be more accurate, you have the correct process but the results didn't pay off...

like the poker scenario, if you have pocket aces, and you are the significant short stack, would you go all in?? if you lost, would you have been wrong to do so??

Again, results . But this is not poker.

if your process deemed your company would make a million dollars, but you lost 1 million dollars. Does your boss tell you "it's ok, it was the thought that counts"?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Again, results . But this is not poker.

if your process deemed your company would make a million dollars, but you lost 1 million dollars. Does your boss tell you "it's ok, it was the thought that counts"?

again, now you are talking about coaches and GMs... they are all about results... but someone's success or failure is not necessarily dependent on them being right or wrong with their process....

 

[SmokingMonkey]

if your process deemed your company would make a million dollars, but you lost 1 million dollars. Does your boss tell you "it's ok, it was the thought that counts"?

depends, did you steal market share from your competitor with your process?
if so, your boss would prob eat that million lost and find ways to make it back as the category leader in your industry

 

[SteelersPride]

again, now you are talking about coaches and GMs... they are all about results... but someone's success or failure is not necessarily dependent on them being right or wrong with their process....

Weren't we talking about football?

 

[SteelersPride]

depends, did you steal market share from your competitor with your process?
if so, your boss would prob eat that million lost and find ways to make it back as the category leader in your industry

well thats a damn good point @SmokingMonkey

 

[SmokingMonkey]

well thats a damn good point @SmokingMonkey

just figured I'd stir it up a bit, lol

 

[SteelersPride]

just figured I'd stir it up a bit, lol

lol as if its not enough!

 

[Stomp]

So trubisky was the right pick?

I really wanna be in this word where you can be very wrong , and still Be right. Again my argument isn't about mahomes specifically. I don't know how much more clear I can make that.

you guys keep adding points to justify that they were wrong. The large Massive point is they were wrong.

If you need a QB you keep taking shots until you get one. If Trubisky doesn't end up being the guy they eventually move on to the next guy. The only other option is trying to get a QB through FA and i really can't think of many teams that got a Superbowl going that route.

 

[TREFF]

If you need a QB you keep taking shots until you get one. If Trubisky doesn't end up being the guy they eventually move on to the next guy. The only other option is trying to get a QB through FA and i really can't think of many teams that got a Superbowl going that route.

Well, since 2000...
Ravens - Dilfer, Saints- Brees, Eagles (kind of) Foles, Broncos - Manning, TB- Brad Johnson, all won it. And Arizona- Warner, SF- if you count trades, with JimmyG, , Panthers- Delhomme, Seahawks-Hasselblah, and my Raiders, with Gannon all made it there.

And this is possibly THE year to find a FA QB..there multiple viable options available..not even counting Brady and Brees

 

[SteelersPride]

If you need a QB you keep taking shots until you get one. If Trubisky doesn't end up being the guy they eventually move on to the next guy. The only other option is trying to get a QB through FA and i really can't think of many teams that got a Superbowl going that route.

Yeah, you are right you gotta get one. But what you said is irrelevant from my point.

 

[Stomp]

Yeah, you are right you gotta get one. But what you said is irrelevant from my point.

Still not really clear on what that point is? from my point of view it just looks like you're trying to say you think drafting Trubisky was the wrong pick 2 years late...

 

[SteelersPride]

Still not really clear on what that point is? from my point of view it just looks like you're trying to say you think drafting Trubisky was the wrong pick 2 years late...

Take it how you want then. I can't lay it out anymore clear. I d rather be thought of saying that. Than saying every draft pick is correct.

 

[SteelersPride]

@Stomp were pettigrew and Ebron the correct picks?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

@Stomp were pettigrew and Ebron the correct picks?

but those were proven that the process was wrong... But at the time, they might have been the correct picks for that certain process....


and I never said every pick is correct... there will always be mistakes made, even within a process... the problem is that we will never know the mistakes made... we can only assume the process...

that also doesn't mean as a fan you have to agree with anything... I know I thought the jets drafting Christian Hackenberg was terrible at the time... and I was proven right...

 

[SteelersPride]

but those were proven that the process was wrong... But at the time, they might have been the correct picks for that certain process....


and I never said every pick is correct... there will always be mistakes made, even within a process... the problem is that we will never know the mistakes made... we can only assume the process...

that also doesn't mean as a fan you have to agree with anything... I know I thought the jets drafting Christian Hackenberg was terrible at the time... and I was proven right...

How was the process for those wrong? The data the lions had, that theh interpreted determined that was their best pick. That was the best player for
Them to help them win. That he can and would succeed with them. Isn't that why they made the pick?

How were those proven wrong? Yet other failures are correct? Your are now gonna judge the process. Process leads you to success or failure. If process leads you to failure, who judges whether it is right or wrong, especially when the outcome is wrong? In all of these , all I'm hearing is subjective judgements. Nothing being objective.

ok wel I knew trading up for trubisky was wrong, I feel I was proven right.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

How was the process for those wrong? The data the lions had, that theh interpreted determined that was their best pick. That was the best player for
Them to help them win. That he can and would succeed with them. Isn't that why they made the pick?

How were those proven wrong? Yet other failures are correct?

all I am saying, is things can be correct at the time, and wrong at a different moment in time.... and vice versa...

and a specific process, if it differs from the consensus too much, will always be riskier... and the riskier you are the more important it is to be correct in the future...


But we have totally surpassed the original QB only conversation.... QBs are a totally different animal than any other position...

 

[SteelersPride]

all I am saying, is things can be correct at the time, and wrong at a different moment in time.... and vice versa...

and a specific process, if it differs from the consensus too much, will always be riskier... and the riskier you are the more important it is to be correct in the future...


But we have totally surpassed the original QB only conversation.... QBs are a totally different animal than any other position...

But again that's revisionist history. Oh we are so Worlds past the original
Discussion it's insane. But I thought we were continue this out of boredom, and fun

 

[MilkSpiller22]

But again that's revisionist history. Oh we are so Worlds past the original
Discussion it's insane. But I thought we were continue this out of boredom, and fun

how is it revisionist??

Let me ask a fantasy question...

Last season, after week 1... If I traded Mahomes for Aaron Rodgers... who would be the winner of the trade at the time??? Would people even allow that trade to happen?? but Mahomes was the clear better QB...

 

[SteelersPride]

how is it revisionist??

Let me ask a fantasy question...

Last season, after week 1... If I traded Mahomes for Aaron Rodgers... who would be the winner of the trade at the time??? Would people even allow that trade to happen?? but Mahomes was the clear better QB...

Because your changing whether it was right or wrong. If pettigrew or ebron dominated then the process would of been correct? Wouldnt it? Even though it differed from the norm?

Lol this scenario again. Ok let me break down MY PERSONAL thought process. Maybe it will give you an idea where Im coming from.

1. Pre season I had mahomes way over rodgers.
2. After week 1, rodgers had 203 yards and 1 td.......so this isnt a great example. But lets assume he had 5 tds, mahomes had 3 td's and more yards week 1
3. Based on that alone, mahomes wins, like i said before the one thing in process, you cant predict mostly is injuries
4. My league would let the trade happen. Mahomes is the better QB. But if your process was that Rodgers was going to have a better year, and you saw that , you made that trade.
5. Mahomes missed 2 games, and still finished above rodgers.
6. It was PROVEN that the person who thought rodgers was the better play was in FACT, WRONG.
7. IMHO this is sounding like the "everyone gets a trophy" thing now a days. Everyone is right, all processes are right, and there are little consequences. In this situation you WERE WRONG.

Bringing back to the fantasy football analogy. You brought up barkley before. Were you wrong for taking him #1 over mcaffrey, when a guy like @tlance had mcaffrey #1, yes you were wrong. The industry was wrong. The data was wrong. The rational was wrong. The analysts who said the gmen didnt have then offense to support a #1 overall rb again were correct. Just because majority has an opinion doesnt make it correct. You fully can say I rationalized this, so i did this, But that doesnt mean it was right.

If after week 7 Person A traded Devante Parker to team B for calvin ridley.......Something thats not so entirely crazy. Who was right? THE PERSON WHO GOT PARKER. IT WAS PROVEN. They made the right call. Its outcome based. These are outcome based decisions, with outcome based scenarios. There is a clear this is better than that.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Because your changing whether it was right or wrong. If pettigrew or ebron dominated then the process would of been correct? Wouldnt it? Even though it differed from the norm?

Lol this scenario again. Ok let me break down MY PERSONAL thought process. Maybe it will give you an idea where Im coming from.

1. Pre season I had mahomes way over rodgers.
2. After week 1, rodgers had 203 yards and 1 td.......so this isnt a great example. But lets assume he had 5 tds, mahomes had 3 td's and more yards week 1
3. Based on that alone, mahomes wins, like i said before the one thing in process, you cant predict mostly is injuries
4. My league would let the trade happen. Mahomes is the better QB. But if your process was that Rodgers was going to have a better year, and you saw that , you made that trade.
5. Mahomes missed 2 games, and still finished above rodgers.
6. It was PROVEN that the person who thought rodgers was the better play was in FACT, WRONG.
7. IMHO this is sounding like the "everyone gets a trophy" thing now a days. Everyone is right, all processes are right, and there are little consequences. In this situation you WERE WRONG.

Bringing back to the fantasy football analogy. You brought up barkley before. Were you wrong for taking him #1 over mcaffrey, when a guy like @tlance had mcaffrey #1, yes you were wrong. The industry was wrong. The data was wrong. The rational was wrong. The analysts who said the gmen didnt have then offense to support a #1 overall rb again were correct. Just because majority has an opinion doesnt make it correct. You fully can say I rationalized this, so i did this, But that doesnt mean it was right.

If after week 7 Person A traded Devante Parker to team B for calvin ridley.......Something thats not so entirely crazy. Who was right? THE PERSON WHO GOT PARKER. IT WAS PROVEN. They made the right call. Its outcome based. These are outcome based decisions, with outcome based scenarios. There is a clear this is better than that.

I meant 2018...

But the point is that you can make the clear choice at the time, and the results at the end may show you wrong... But at the time it was a no- brainer decision... you made the correct choice... But it did not pay off...

If I bet you 20 years ago whether Pluto was a planet... which side would you have chosen, and how confident would you have been... at the time, wouldn't you say that was the correct choice... just because NOW you are proven wrong, is that relevant to whether you made the correct choice or not...