Comedy gold out of Edmonton

[jstewismybastardson]

 

[thedddd]

Svenskens egoboost under mardrömstiden: ”Tyckte jag behövdes mer än McDavid” - have to translate it.

So part of the quote:

Taylor has been our best player in recent years, but it's also hard to tell what he has contributed. He never played his best games against the tougher teams, which we really needed it. However, he was fantastic when we met the little inferior teams.

Wonder what teams those were?

 

[dash]

Svenskens egoboost under mardrömstiden: ”Tyckte jag behövdes mer än McDavid” - have to translate it.

So part of the quote:


Wonder what teams those were?

Intra-squad games?!?

 

[DragonfromTO]

Last year 10 teams had 100+ points. Taylor Hall averaged 0.79 PPG against those teams (23 points in 29 games).

Against the other 19 teams he scored 42 points in 53 games for an average of... 0.79 PPG.

I know that this (and points in general) is a pretty simple measure and not something to use to draw big conclusions, but my skepticism is stretching and crawling out from under the covers. If/when I have a little more time to examine it I'll share what I uncover.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Last year 10 teams had 100+ points. Taylor Hall averaged 0.79 PPG against those teams (23 points in 29 games).

Against the other 19 teams he scored 42 points in 53 games for an average of... 0.79 PPG.

I know that this (and points in general) is a pretty simple measure and not something to use to draw big conclusions, but my skepticism is stretching and crawling out from under the covers. If/when I have a little more time to examine it I'll share what I uncover.

From the THW article on this: "Last season, Hall had a 0.66 points per game average against the Western Conference playoff teams, and a 0.95 ppg against non-playoff teams."

FWIW, the article goes on to point out that it's kind of hard to play better against good teams when the rest of your team fucking blows.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Oilers to name Keith Gretzky Assistant GM

 

[DragonfromTO]

From the THW article on this: "Last season, Hall had a 0.66 points per game average against the Western Conference playoff teams, and a 0.95 ppg against non-playoff teams."

FWIW, the article goes on to point out that it's kind of hard to play better against good teams when the rest of your team fucking blows.

But if we're going to use last year's point data/splits to draw conclusions (and as I said before, we really shouldn't anyway), isn't "Taylor Hall plays worst against the teams in the middle of the pack" the conclusion that best fits the data anyway? As I said his point numbers look fine against top 10 teams, the number only drops when we stretch the sample out to include 11th through 16th place.

Edit: I just realized that split isn't even playoff teams but Western Conference playoff teams in particular. Why didn't they shave it down even more and limit it to home games on Tuesday too? Jesus Christ man

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

But if we're going to use last year's point data/splits to draw conclusions (and as I said before, we really shouldn't anyway), isn't "Taylor Hall plays worst against the teams in the middle of the pack" the conclusion that best fits the data anyway? As I said his point numbers look fine against top 10 teams, the number only drops when we stretch the sample out to include 11th through 16th place.

Edit: I just realized that split isn't even playoff teams but Western Conference playoff teams in particular. Why didn't they shave it down even more and limit it to home games on Tuesday too? Jesus Christ man

Did those 16 games vs. Eastern playoff teams pad his stats much?

 

[dash]

Oilers to name Keith Gretzky Assistant GM

Not only is the organization a tire fire, but it is an inbred tire fire.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Did those 16 games vs. Eastern playoff teams pad his stats much?

I count 16 points in those 16 games.

But this exercise really kind of points out some of the problems with using single season splits in the first place. I used "100 point teams" as a proxy for "tougher teams", which seemed entirely reasonable to me. The writer instead used "Western Conference playoff teams", which also seems like it's a decent enough definition I suppose. And yet the data for these two splits shows rather different things.

Edit: Now that I actually take a look at it I think that the Hockey Writers' comparison samples actually exclude games against Eastern Conference teams entirely. I originally thought that the split was Western Playoff vs. Other but I think it's actually Western Playoff vs. Western Non Playoff. They're trimming down the data way too much for it to be at all meaningful.

 

[DragonfromTO]

So if we look at playoff/non-playoff without isolating the Western Conference here's what I get

35 points in 45 games vs playoff teams, 0.78 PPG

30 points in 37 games vs non-playoff teams, 0.81 PPG

His worst split appears to be against teams near the bottom of the Eastern Conference. So while none of this is terribly meaningful and shouldn't be used to toss out the argument that Hall plays worse/better when the games are tough/easy, I don't see much that supports it.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I think the reason they used the Western teams is because a) only one of those teams sucked compared to at least 3 in the East, and b) the Oilers played them more.

Also, like I said, the article kinda calls BS on Klefbom anyway. Here it is since I didn't post it:

What Did Oscar Klefbom Really Say About Taylor Hall?

 

[DragonfromTO]

I think the reason they used the Western teams is because a) only one of those teams sucked compared to at least 3 in the East, and b) the Oilers played them more.

Also, like I said, the article kinda calls BS on Klefbom anyway. Here it is since I didn't post it:

What Did Oscar Klefbom Really Say About Taylor Hall?

If they wanted to cut out the teams that "sucked" they could have done something similar to what I did instead of throwing the Eastern Conference baby out with the bathwater. I suspect that he simply cherry picked a split that seemed to back Klefbom's contention, not because he was on Klefbom's "side" but for general balance in the piece. But it's better to not use data than to use data badly.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

If they wanted to cut out the teams that "sucked" they could have done something similar to what I did instead of throwing the Eastern Conference baby out with the bathwater. I suspect that he simply cherry picked a split that seemed to back Klefbom's contention, not because he was on Klefbom's "side" but for general balance in the piece. But it's better to not use data than to use data badly.

Maybe Klefbom considered non-inferior opposition (still not sure what that may be in Oilers parlance but...) to be playoff teams in his conference and the writer was trying to see things from Klefbom's POV? Not unreasonable.

Anyway, don't really care one way or the other. Klefbom was dumb for saying anything at all other than "sad to see him go, looking forward to the future".

 

[dash]

Maybe Klefbom considered non-inferior opposition (still not sure what that may be in Oilers parlance but...) to be playoff teams in his conference and the writer was trying to see things from Klefbom's POV? Not unreasonable.

Anyway, don't really care one way or the other. Klefbom was dumb for saying anything at all other than "sad to see him go, looking forward to the future".

I guess there's always the chance that these guys are being misquoted, but I do find it funny that these European and Russian players are a lot looser with their tongues when they are back in their native land. Questioning another guy's character and commitment to a team when you are half a world away is well, pretty convenient.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Maybe Klefbom considered non-inferior opposition (still not sure what that may be in Oilers parlance but...) to be playoff teams in his conference and the writer was trying to see things from Klefbom's POV? Not unreasonable.

Anyway, don't really care one way or the other. Klefbom was dumb for saying anything at all other than "sad to see him go, looking forward to the future".

I'm not sure how the Hockey Writers author would have gotten that impression based on what it was reported Klefbom said. It seems like an odd leap to me.

And yeah, honestly I don't care much either.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Not only is the organization a tire fire, but it is an inbred tire fire.

They looked at how the Bruins were drafting and decided that's what they needed?

 

[dash]

They looked at how the Bruins were drafting and decided that's what they needed?

I bet the next move from the Oilers brain trust is a scheme to get Chara from the B's.

 

[dash]

More shots fired...

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

More shots fired...

And Scrivens would know - he played with noted hot dog conoisseur and well-regarded Maple Leaf Coach Killer Phil Kessel.