City's top 15 of all time (each position)

[tlance]

Yeesh.

I.........

I really want to say that Kidd was better than Nash.

But, it doesn't feel right.

Kawhi better than Worthy?

Yikes, I don't know.

Better defender, obviously.

Hasn't been caught with prostitutes, always a plus.

But, I have always thought Worthy could have done more if we was the go to guy.

We don't penalize Pippen for playing next to Jordan.

Webber is to low.

Fight me.

Kawhi is too low.

The load management thing is going to hurt his legacy for sure.

But, He has Finals MVPs for 2 different teams and has been in the debate for best player in the league multiple times.

For me, I rank him somewhere in the Pippen/Havlicek range right now. He doesn’t have the longevity or the durability. But I think it is pretty clear that Kawhi’s best is arguably up there with anybody ranked 3 or lower.

 

[tlance]

Here goes nothing....

Point Guard

1. Magic Johnson
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Jerry West
4. Steph Curry
5. John Stockton
6. Isiah Thomas
7. Gary Payton
8. Steve Nash
9. Jason Kidd
10. Chris Paul
11. Walt Frazier
12. Russell Westbrook
13. Bob Cousy
14. Tiny Archibald
15. Dennis Johnson

Shooting Guard

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Clyde Drexler
5. Allen Iverson
6. George Gervin
7. Tracy McGrady
8. Ray Allen
9. Vince Carter
10. Reggie Miller
11. Pete Marivich
12. Mitch Richmond
13. Manu Ginobili
14. Earl Monroe
15. Joe Dumars

Small Forward

1. Lebron James
2. Larry Bird
3. Kevin Durant
4. Julius Erving
5. Scottie Pippen
6. John Havlicek
7. Elgin Baylor
8. Rick Barry
9. Dominique Wilkins
10. Paul Pierce
11. Adrian Dantley
12. Alex English
13. Kawhi Leonard
14. James Worthy
15. Bernard King

Power Forward

1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Charles Barkley
5. Dirk Nowitzki
6. Bob Pettit
7. Elvin Hayes
8. Kevin McHale
9. Dolph Schayes
10. Jerry Lucas
11. Tommy Heinsohn
12. Pau Gasol
13. Dennis Rodman
14. Chris Webber
15. Dave DeBusschere

Centers

1. Kareem-Abdul Jabbar
2. Shaq O'Neal
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. David Robinson
6. Moses Malone
7. George Mikan
8. Bill Russell
9. Patrick Ewing
10. Artis Gilmore
11. Walt Bellamy
12. Dave Cowens
13. Yao Ming
14. Bill Walton
15. Alonzo Mourning

Thanks for doing this.

impossible chore for sure, but sparks some fun debate.

Certainly some places I disagree, but good list overall.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'd probably have them in the exact order you listed (Wilt last in his only because I never saw him play).

edit - check that, I'd go Hakeem over Shaq, I think. But really close.

Agree re: Hakeem over Shaq. Shaq might even put Hakeem over Shaq. Shaq has so much respect for him that he still calls him Mr. Olajuwon.

Plus, Hakeem taught a young Shaq some serious lessons when they faced each other in the finals.

 

[trojanfan12]

Here goes nothing....

Point Guard

1. Magic Johnson
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Jerry West
4. Steph Curry
5. John Stockton
6. Isiah Thomas
7. Gary Payton
8. Steve Nash
9. Jason Kidd
10. Chris Paul
11. Walt Frazier
12. Russell Westbrook
13. Bob Cousy
14. Tiny Archibald
15. Dennis Johnson

Shooting Guard

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Clyde Drexler
5. Allen Iverson
6. George Gervin
7. Tracy McGrady
8. Ray Allen
9. Vince Carter
10. Reggie Miller
11. Pete Marivich
12. Mitch Richmond
13. Manu Ginobili
14. Earl Monroe
15. Joe Dumars

Small Forward

1. Lebron James
2. Larry Bird
3. Kevin Durant
4. Julius Erving
5. Scottie Pippen
6. John Havlicek
7. Elgin Baylor
8. Rick Barry
9. Dominique Wilkins
10. Paul Pierce
11. Adrian Dantley
12. Alex English
13. Kawhi Leonard
14. James Worthy
15. Bernard King

Power Forward

1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Charles Barkley
5. Dirk Nowitzki
6. Bob Pettit
7. Elvin Hayes
8. Kevin McHale
9. Dolph Schayes
10. Jerry Lucas
11. Tommy Heinsohn
12. Pau Gasol
13. Dennis Rodman
14. Chris Webber
15. Dave DeBusschere

Centers

1. Kareem-Abdul Jabbar
2. Shaq O'Neal
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. David Robinson
6. Moses Malone
7. George Mikan
8. Bill Russell
9. Patrick Ewing
10. Artis Gilmore
11. Walt Bellamy
12. Dave Cowens
13. Yao Ming
14. Bill Walton
15. Alonzo Mourning

Wow. Great list. Nice mix of eras too. As other have said, mixing in the guys from other eras is tough.

Only real disagreement I have is that Worthy is way too low, imo. He sacrificed a lot of stats to win titles, but still managed to make a big enough impact in big games to earn the nickname "Big Game James".

The Showtime Lakers likely have at least one and possibly 2 fewer titles without him.

Outside of that...can't really think of anything else I'd do different other than maybe switching Shaq and Hakeem.

 

[tlance]

Wow. Great list. Nice mix of eras too. As other have said, mixing in the guys from other eras is tough.

Only real disagreement I have is that Worthy is way too low, imo. He sacrificed a lot of stats to win titles, but still managed to make a big enough impact in big games to earn the nickname "Big Game James".

The Showtime Lakers likely have at least one and possibly 2 fewer titles without him.

Outside of that...can't really think of anything else I'd do different other than maybe switching Shaq and Hakeem.

Maybe it isn’t that Worthy and Kawhi are too low (they are) but that Dantley, English, Pierce and probably Wilkins are too high.

 

[tlance]

Also, Dennis Rodman should not be on this list.

He was great at what he did, no doubt. But you can’t rank a player who wasn’t a scoring threat on the top 15 all time at his position, IMO. Too many great players out there who were threats on both ends.

 

[tlance]

Give me Anthony Davis, Bosh, Webber or Larry Nance.

 

[trojanfan12]

Also, Dennis Rodman should not be on this list.

He was great at what he did, no doubt. But you can’t rank a player who wasn’t a scoring threat on the top 15 all time at his position, IMO. Too many great players out there who were threats on both ends.

Yeah, hard to say with Rodman, imo. His rebounding and defense are definitely top 15 worthy. But he became so focused on those that it was like he was allergic to scoring.

He was never what you'd call a "scoring threat", but looking at his stats, you can see where he started concentrating on rebounding and defense. His rebounding jumped from about 9 per game to 18 virtually overnight. From 91-92 to the end of his career, the lowest rebounding average he had was 11.2 with the Lakers when he was 37 and playing alongside Shaq.

Right about that time, his scoring average started dropping about as precipitously as possible for a guy whose high was 11.7 ppg. lol

 

[tlance]

Yeah, hard to say with Rodman, imo. His rebounding and defense are definitely top 15 worthy. But he became so focused on those that it was like he was allergic to scoring.

He was never what you'd call a "scoring threat", but looking at his stats, you can see where he started concentrating on rebounding and defense. His rebounding jumped from about 9 per game to 18 virtually. From 91-92 to the end of his career, the lowest rebounding average he had was 11.2 with the Lakers when he was 37 and playing alongside Shaq.

Right about that time, his scoring average started dropping about as precipitously as possible for a guy whose high was 11.7 ppg. lol

Sure.

But if you have to add 1 player to your core group and you have to choose between Rodman and Anthony Davis, who you got?

I don’t think that is a particularly difficult decision.

 

[trojanfan12]

Sure.

But if you have to add 1 player to your core group and you have to choose between Rodman and Anthony Davis, who you got?

I don’t think that is a particularly difficult decision.

lol

True.

On the other hand, he sure made some of the guys ahead of him on the list look pretty pedestrian a lot of the time.

I think Karl Malone still has nightmares about Rodman.

 

[tlance]

lol

True.

On the other hand, he sure made some of the guys ahead of him on the list look pretty pedestrian a lot of the time.

I think Karl Malone still has nightmares about Rodman.

For sure.

But, when a player’s sole focus in the game is to shit down Karl Malone, he still doesn’t have the same impact as Karl Malone because he is only relevant on 1 side.

They are polar opposites, literally couldn’t be more different but I think Rodman’s impact is actually really similar to a player like Kevin Love.

They are both players most teams would want, but roster construction matters a great deal when you build around a player who only gives you 1 side of the court. And to me, I can’t put a guy like that in the top 15 unless he was a transcendent offensive player. Defensive genius, while highly valuable, just isn’t worth as much as offensive genius.

 

[trojanfan12]

For sure.

But, when a player’s sole focus in the game is to shit down Karl Malone, he still doesn’t have the same impact as Karl Malone because he is only relevant on 1 side.

They are polar opposites, literally couldn’t be more different but I think Rodman’s impact is actually really similar to a player like Kevin Love.

They are both players most teams would want, but roster construction matters a great deal when you build around a player who only gives you 1 side of the court. And to me, I can’t put a guy like that in the top 15 unless he was a transcendent offensive player. Defensive genius, while highly valuable, just isn’t worth as much as offensive genius.

Agree. Additionally, the era he played in was perfect for the player he became. I don't think he could get away with a lot of what he did to shut guys down/get rebounds in today's game.

I think some of it too is Rodman's "notoriety". He made a huge name for himself and "feels" like he should be top 15.

I honestly didn't even consider moving him off of it until you pointed out that he was only playing 1 side.

When you break it down like you did, he's not top 15. I'd say top 25, maybe even top 20.

 

[Mecca]

Also, Dennis Rodman should not be on this list.

He was great at what he did, no doubt. But you can’t rank a player who wasn’t a scoring threat on the top 15 all time at his position, IMO. Too many great players out there who were threats on both ends.

* flashes back to the 2 year role player debate *

 

[tlance]

* flashes back to the 2 year role player debate *

LOL.

I was careful to avoid that word because of that debate.

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

Yeah looking at it again, I'd probably move him closer to 8. Think Baylor, Barry and Hondo all better likely.

I thought you had Pippen too low, I have him number two behind Bird at SF.

 

[tlance]

I thought you had Pippen too low, I have him number two behind Bird at SF.

So you must have LeBron ranked as the number 1 PG then?

 

[Mecca]

So you must have LeBron ranked as the number 1 PG then?

Maybe he does his rankings like the Ms. America Pageants.

Bird would be 1st runner up and Scottie to Hottie would be 2nd.



Otherwise, nah.

 

[handicappers]

how is Shawn Bradley not on this list?

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

So you must have LeBron ranked as the number 1 PG then?

Hell no, Magic is the #1 pg. Lebron isn't a PG. He is a SF, and I have him number 4 all time.

 

[CitySushi]

Hell no, Magic is the #1 pg. Lebron isn't a PG. He is a SF, and I have him number 4 all time.

Holy hell, who is number 3???