Cingrani....

[bengaldoug]

Makes a huge difference in the bullpen. If Cueto (and everyone else) can stay healthy the rest of the year, they should keep Cingrani right where he is now.

 

[HammerDown]

That was tough right there!

 

[JohnU]

Fearless.

What's scary is Chapman. He's going to kill somebody.

 

[bengaldoug]

Fearless.

What's scary is Chapman. He's going to kill somebody.

Probably a Pirate, too.....

 

[BigBlueNation111]

 

[JohnU]

Probably a Pirate, too.....

Pirate, Indian, all the same.

 

[Cincy the Red]

Good to see Cingrani kept aboard in some capacity this time....the Reds need the presence of an additional good lefty arm. He can fill a variety of roles for us as well if need be....starter, long relief, setup, etc....and sure beats the hell out of having to watch Broxton pitch miserably.

 

[JohnU]

What Cingrani does need to do is learn to get past the bad pitch.
Everybody will light up a pitcher from time to time. Just get the next out.

 

[bengaldoug]

Good to see Cingrani kept aboard in some capacity this time....the Reds need the presence of an additional good lefty arm. He can fill a variety of roles for us as well if need be....starter, long relief, setup, etc....and sure beats the hell out of having to watch Broxton pitch miserably.

It should be clear now that Broxton has been dealing with the elbow issue all season. That explains the inconsistent velocity and consistent lack of command, not to mention his reluctance to throw the heater. I don't believe for a minute that 15 days of rest are all he needs, either.....

 

[Redsfan1507]

Cingrani looked fired up. I think he's stoked to contribute, and I'm sure he'd rather be a LOOGY for the Reds than a SP in AAA. He threw a nice curveball to the lefty, and needs to do so more. Can't just live on a mid nineties fastball. He's better than Parra though. Broxton is a good one, but it's obvious he was hurting, made worse by Dusty tossing him in the pointless Cubs finale. If Cingrani pitches well, no need to send him back when Marshall returns- were short lefty pitchers, and without one on the rotation, a 3rd lefty reliever would come in handy... if Dusty has a clue how to use matchups to advantage.

 

[Cincy the Red]

Well, if the elbow has been the problem all along, and it was a known issue, then it was managed very poorly by both Broxton & Dusty. You DO NOT try to pitch with that sort of injury....ever....can be career ending. There was no "reluctance" to throw the heater....he just couldn't do it. In my opinion, the command could very well be weight related....dude is over 300 lbs. I agree with you though "bengaldoug"....15 days will not cure either potential issue. But it is what it is at this point, and I hope he is ok going forward and wish for a quick return....healthy. But once again, he has pitched poorly for quite some time (possibly trying to play through it knowing 21 million was on the table?)....and if it is that "clear" to you and I...then why wasn't it to Dusty and his staff, and why the hell would he put him in there with the game on the line, multiple times, knowing this? To be honest, this is as "clear as mud" to me....and I am glad Cingrani is there to pick up the slack. Just my opinion once again....Go Redlegs!

 

[Redsfan1507]

Anyone that practices "Trusty in Dusty" better have a good backup plan in place. The man had the lowest baseball IQ for someone that has been in the game that long, I've ever seen.

 

[JohnU]

Cingrani is in a position to determine Manny Parra's career.
Seriously, Meltdown Manny could be on the DFA list pretty soon.
I'd eat that contract.

 

[Cincy the Red]

Agreed JohnU. But I think Cingrani, through some twist of fate, has determined his own course. He has shown to be a reliable starter, nice set-up guy, and is doing this at a very young age....kid has some serious confidence for sure as Redsfan1507 pointed out. Takes on every role, regardless of the situation with pride and determination....

Parra determined his own destiny....and would eat his own contract if he had the heart/pride Cingrani plays with.

 

[bengaldoug]

Well, if the elbow has been the problem all along, and it was a known issue, then it was managed very poorly by both Broxton & Dusty. You DO NOT try to pitch with that sort of injury....ever....can be career ending. There was no "reluctance" to throw the heater....he just couldn't do it. In my opinion, the command could very well be weight related....dude is over 300 lbs. I agree with you though "bengaldoug"....15 days will not cure either potential issue. But it is what it is at this point, and I hope he is ok going forward and wish for a quick return....healthy. But once again, he has pitched poorly for quite some time (possibly trying to play through it knowing 21 million was on the table?)....and if it is that "clear" to you and I...then why wasn't it to Dusty and his staff, and why the hell would he put him in there with the game on the line, multiple times, knowing this? To be honest, this is as "clear as mud" to me....and I am glad Cingrani is there to pick up the slack. Just my opinion once again....Go Redlegs![/QUOTE]

BINGO!!!! Outstanding post.

 

[WvuDieHard]

In a strange way, I see Cingrani as being the missing piece to the puzzle. The problem is that Dustmop is too set in his ways to realize this. The Reds would be tough to beat in the late innings with this group coming at you : Partch, Cingrani, Marshall, and Chapman. If you work this 4 guys late in the game like a good manager would in certain situations, it would be real hard to score on the Reds in the 7-8-9th innings. Partch and Cingrani are the future of this organization's pitching staff and their time has come where they can contribute.

 

[Cincy the Red]

LOL!!!! bengaldoug....I caught that too after the fact. Funny stuff, but the point is all the same (and I know you knew what I meant....damn the Coors Lights! Well, not really....). Trying to figure out Dusty's reasoning makes it murky....but his ineptness is very evident to us Reds fans.... there is no sense in putting a pitcher out there, that you know is injured, in a crucial part of the game....multiple times, and endangering his career with this elbow. It has cost us thus far and hopefully, does not come back to haunt us at season's end....I hope you agree.

 

[bengaldoug]

Yessir, indeed.....

 

[Redsfan1507]

If ever a manager could get trapped into conventional "wisdom" regarding roles of 7-8-9 inning relievers, it dumbfounded me it would be Dusty, NOT exactly the most reliable practitioner of fundamental execution. The man is stubborn about doing the same things, and expecting different results. Mostly, Dusty has his mind made up in spring training, and only deviates from it when his roster prohibits it. If everything goes as planned, Dusty wins the Manager of the Year. It's happened 3 times in his career... or about the success rate of just about any instance where Dusty feels compelled to make a decision.

I don't expect Dusty to make Parra better pitcher by using him differently, or even refusing to pitch him at all; it was the GM's plan for Chapman to start and Broxton to be paid as a closer that brought Parra into the picture to begin with. Paying Broxton the additional money, and Choo too, probably made Walt try to cheap on a LOOGY, especially since they already had one of the highest paid LOOGY in the NL in Marshall. With AC in the rotation, just 1 lefty in the pen wasn't enough...enter Parra. Broxton and Marshall's injuries and the in effectiveness of most of the bullpen other than Chapman, may just be the law of averages catching up to last years injury free pitching staff, but it's a requirement for Plan B, that is limited to talent on the roster, and ability to compensate elsewhere ( longer SP, more offense, farm help,etc.) that frankly, Dusty has little success with. Dusty wins when players perform indepentantly of major managerial or coaching interference. He's going to go to Hoover, Parra, Partch, orwhoever is available ( complicated by Dusty's constant overwork of the pen and squandering early opportunities that result in extra inning games), increasingly in more impact roles, until someone better at it is on the roster. Hopefully, Marshall and Broxton will be back soon to help.

Still, I believe that the knock on Dusty in regard to shredding pitchers arms is working against his decision not only to not start Chapman, but to use him for more than 1 inning(although it hasn't stopped him from warming him up 5 times a week and 4 times in a 14 inning game that he didn't even appear in). There currently are NO innings inexperienced SP that qualify as Verducci candidates to blame Dusty for harming... Dusty's use of relievers often flys under the radar...but it's my opinion that the biggest mistakes that Dusty makes with pitching, is that he bumbles offensive opportunities so much it causes undesired and unnecessary stress on the pitchers. Dusty has distorted a lot more offenses than arms, IMO, and pitching is a downstream impact of that.

 

[JohnU]

I think a lot of the pitching decisions inside the bullpen relate to the other side of the ball.
The Reds have a pathetic offense and way too many games require micromanaging an inning instead of just going in there and letting the reliever get outs. A bullpen can look great with a 5-run lead. Trust me.


And compounding that, there's no serious righthanded hitter on the bench.

The bullpen comes into the game with 9 toes aimed at the blowtorch.