Celtics Off-Season - the Quest for AD

[Bloody Brian Burke]

This is a non-issue. Whatever the league rules require, the two teams would agree in principle until the time required. This happens all the time.

This assumes that the Celtics agree with Kyrie on a contract prior to the draft though. There is literally no reason for Kyrie to not at least go out and interview which he can't do until the 30th.

It's basically NO waiting on a chain reaction of shit Boston has to do in order to accommodate just the one suitor.

 

[shopson67]

This assumes that the Celtics agree with Kyrie on a contract prior to the draft though. There is literally no reason for Kyrie to not at least go out and interview which he can't do until the 30th.

It's basically NO waiting on a chain reaction of shit Boston has to do in order to accommodate just the one suitor.

...and you know Ainge is going to drag things out and lowball the Pels.

 

[flyerhawk]

This assumes that the Celtics agree with Kyrie on a contract prior to the draft though. There is literally no reason for Kyrie to not at least go out and interview which he can't do until the 30th.

It's basically NO waiting on a chain reaction of shit Boston has to do in order to accommodate just the one suitor.

The Celtics will need to either get assurances from Kyrie that he's staying or make a decision on whether they are willing to go all in on AD no matter what. Those are their choices. The Pels aren't going to sit around and wait so if some other team gives them a home run deal they will take it.

However I'm not sure any team is going to be more willing to go all in before July 1st. Maybe the Lakers would since their offer isn't contingent on any other FAs signing but I suspect the Pels would prefer to NOT trade with the Lakers.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

However I'm not sure any team is going to be more willing to go all in before July 1st. Maybe the Lakers would since their offer isn't contingent on any other FAs signing but I suspect the Pels would prefer to NOT trade with the Lakers.

Yeah, this is a good point unless the Knicks are fine with assuming they can convince a free agent and get proactive about it.

I think they have to take the best deal available now though regardless of personal feelings. If a Lakers' package gets them the best assets and they identify someone in the draft at 4 they think they can turn into a star that's a tough deal to pass up.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, this is a good point unless the Knicks are fine with assuming they can convince a free agent and get proactive about it.

I think they have to take the best deal available now though regardless of personal feelings. If a Lakers' package gets them the best assets and they identify someone in the draft at 4 they think they can turn into a star that's a tough deal to pass up.

It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. The Lakers could really try to force the issue prior to the draft.

OTOH, it's possible that the Knicks already know that KD is coming to 7th Avenue and they are going to go all in the moment the window opens up.

The Pelicans could be a really interesting team if they get Zion and Barrett in the draft plus whatever else they get from the Knicks. Could completely rebuild the franchise.

 

[buckalis]

So... school's out and and I've had time to think the matter over.

My conclusion is: acquiring AD to pair with Kyrie is option 1A for the Celtics this off-season. In other words: this is the most desired end to be driven towards with a clear intention.

I'm not talking reckless abandon, mind you... as in: "give New Orleans whatever they want want!"... no. Rather, I'm talking play a game of poker with an eye towards winning the big hand.

This is the offer I've settled on as the one for Boston to angle towards: C's get AD. The Pel's get:

• Jayson Tatum
• Marcus Smart
• Robert Williams
• rights to the #14 pick this year
• the future Memphis pick

That's about right, in my estimation.

Where does that leave Boston in the aftermath?

• Kyrie gets resigned to a 5 year, super big contract. Fair enough, that's the deal.
• Horford also likely renegotiates and resigns. Let's call it 4 years and $70 or $80 million.
• Marcus Morris would be a priority resign as well. 2 or 3 years, $10-$12 million-ish per, and a chance to play for a title.
• Rozier is gone. See ya, cry baby.
• The C's probably couldn't keep Theis, either.
• What do the broad strokes of the roster look like then?:

1. Bigs - AD, Horford, Baynes, Yabusele
2. Wings - Hayward, Morris, Brown, Ojeleye
3. Guards - Kyrie, {gulp}, Wanamaker?, {gulp}, ??

The obvious weak point would be at guard. And the C's would have a super high pay roll. So here would have to be some "low cost veteran looking for a ring" type signings. Not ideal, but workable.

Then: it's title or bust. Plan to do so well that we get not only an NBA title but positive energy to resign AD next year when the time comes.

That's the plan.

-------

Of course, all of this depends on Kyrie and where he's at mentally. If Kyrie is willing to stay to both 1.) play with AD and 2.) get paid... this outcome is very much within the realm of possibility. If Kyrie is out the door no matter what... then this whole thing crumbles.

If Kyrie is in, though... this roster is a monster.

One problem though... The Pelicans are not trading AD! Only this.

 

[Gman]

One problem though... The Pelicans are not trading AD! Only this.

You're a gem, @buckalis. Never change.

 

[buckalis]

You're a gem, @buckalis. Never change.

But... every troll here is busting our balls by proposing trade scenarios for his team to get AD, when the Peiicans are clear that they are not interested on proposals because they are not trading AD!

They've even reformed their entire F.O. so that they surround Holliday, Zion, Randle and Davis with more assets looking to become contenders...

My guess is that they'll look to add a really good PG to their starting roster and then look to move the (expiring) Hill and Moore contracts and add more assets next to Payton & Wood on their bench...

 

[redseat]

Guessing you said the same of PG in OKC. Amiright?

I didn't at all to be honest. In fact, not even sure I talked about it at all

 

[shopson67]

But... every troll here is busting our balls by proposing trade scenarios for his team to get AD, when the Peiicans are clear that they are not interested on proposals because they are not trading AD!

They've even reformed their entire F.O. so that they surround Holliday, Zion, Randle and Davis with more assets looking to become contenders...

My guess is that they'll look to add a really good PG to their starting roster and then look to move the (expiring) Hill and Moore contracts and add more assets next to Payton & Wood on their bench...

First problem: Randle has a player option that he will definitely decline.

Second problem: By all indications, Davis still wants out after yesterday's meeting.

Third problem: Even if AD decided to stay, the Pelicans don't have many options to build around him. They have $14.7M in applicable cap space, which could expand to approx $23.8M when Randle declines his option. It will likely take all or most of that to retain Randle (which doesn't make ANY sense if AD stays and they draft Zion). If they cut loose ALL of their FAs and their non-guaranteed contracts (leaving only 4 players on the roster), they would have approx $26.3M in cap space after you account for the cap holds for 8 empty roster spots). Those 4 players would be AD, Jrue, Solomon Hill (negative trade value), and E'Twaun Moore (negligible trade value), plus their draft picks. Nothing left to dangle for trades (unless you move Jrue), and not enough cap to attract a max type FA.

 

[The Q]

So... school's out and and I've had time to think the matter over.

My conclusion is: acquiring AD to pair with Kyrie is option 1A for the Celtics this off-season. In other words: this is the most desired end to be driven towards with a clear intention.

I'm not talking reckless abandon, mind you... as in: "give New Orleans whatever they want want!"... no. Rather, I'm talking play a game of poker with an eye towards winning the big hand.

This is the offer I've settled on as the one for Boston to angle towards: C's get AD. The Pel's get:

• Jayson Tatum
• Marcus Smart
• Robert Williams
• rights to the #14 pick this year
• the future Memphis pick

That's about right, in my estimation.

Where does that leave Boston in the aftermath?

• Kyrie gets resigned to a 5 year, super big contract. Fair enough, that's the deal.
• Horford also likely renegotiates and resigns. Let's call it 4 years and $70 or $80 million.
• Marcus Morris would be a priority resign as well. 2 or 3 years, $10-$12 million-ish per, and a chance to play for a title.
• Rozier is gone. See ya, cry baby.
• The C's probably couldn't keep Theis, either.
• What do the broad strokes of the roster look like then?:

1. Bigs - AD, Horford, Baynes, Yabusele
2. Wings - Hayward, Morris, Brown, Ojeleye
3. Guards - Kyrie, {gulp}, Wanamaker?, {gulp}, ??

The obvious weak point would be at guard. And the C's would have a super high pay roll. So here would have to be some "low cost veteran looking for a ring" type signings. Not ideal, but workable.

Then: it's title or bust. Plan to do so well that we get not only an NBA title but positive energy to resign AD next year when the time comes.

That's the plan.

-------

Of course, all of this depends on Kyrie and where he's at mentally. If Kyrie is willing to stay to both 1.) play with AD and 2.) get paid... this outcome is very much within the realm of possibility. If Kyrie is out the door no matter what... then this whole thing crumbles.

If Kyrie is in, though... this roster is a monster.

Does that trade work cap wise?

Very possible it requires Tatum and Brown cap wise to make it work.

And frankly, Brown and Kyrie probably can't be on the same roster next year.

 

[Shanemansj13]

First problem: Randle has a player option that he will definitely decline.

Second problem: By all indications, Davis still wants out after yesterday's meeting.

Third problem: Even if AD decided to stay, the Pelicans don't have many options to build around him. They have $14.7M in applicable cap space, which could expand to approx $23.8M when Randle declines his option. It will likely take all or most of that to retain Randle (which doesn't make ANY sense if AD stays and they draft Zion). If they cut loose ALL of their FAs and their non-guaranteed contracts (leaving only 4 players on the roster), they would have approx $26.3M in cap space after you account for the cap holds for 8 empty roster spots). Those 4 players would be AD, Jrue, Solomon Hill (negative trade value), and E'Twaun Moore (negligible trade value), plus their draft picks. Nothing left to dangle for trades (unless you move Jrue), and not enough cap to attract a max type FA.

 

[buckalis]

First problem: Randle has a player option that he will definitely decline.

No problem there, he will sign an extention and stay next to Zion where he has a (secure) future

Second problem: By all indications, Davis still wants out after yesterday's meeting.

Usually "indications" mean nothing... The reporters always want to create "subjects" they can sell to the public, the important thing is that the (all new) F.O. of the Pelicans is clear... They are not trading him!

If they insist that they won't trade AD, why you insist that they will? If they see no problem if they loose Davis in free agency, why do you insist they have a problem?

Third problem: Even if AD decided to stay, the Pelicans don't have many options to build around him. They have $14.7M in applicable cap space, which could expand to approx $23.8M when Randle declines his option. It will likely take all or most of that to retain Randle (which doesn't make ANY sense if AD stays and they draft Zion). If they cut loose ALL of their FAs and their non-guaranteed contracts (leaving only 4 players on the roster), they would have approx $26.3M in cap space after you account for the cap holds for 8 empty roster spots). Those 4 players would be AD, Jrue, Solomon Hill (negative trade value), and E'Twaun Moore (negligible trade value), plus their draft picks. Nothing left to dangle for trades (unless you move Jrue), and not enough cap to attract a max type FA.

No problem there either... the only contracts under cap space they have are Hill's and Moore's who are both expiring and they have bought a ton of picks to sweeten them up and move them... They'll get extra exceptions out of extending Randle, they get an amount under MLE for any important addition they may do out of free agency and they have a trade exception after they moved Mirotic...

Best thing IMO, is if they go after CP3 for the PG they need to add next to Holiday, Zion, Randle and Davis and dump the (expiring) contracts of Hill and Moore to Houston... They'll get the exceptions that come with CP3 and will have tons of cap space to make a super max offer to AD without ever paying a penny in lux tax...

 

[Gman]

Does that trade work cap wise?

I believe so.

It is not a novel creation of mine... I have seen the same or almost the same floated.

And frankly, Brown and Kyrie probably can't be on the same roster next year.

Why not?

I haven't heard of any huge personal issue.

Rozier being totally fed up with Kyrie I knew about... but not anything to that degree between Brown and Kyrie.

 

[dtgold88]

I believe so.

It is not a novel creation of mine... I have seen the same or almost the same floated.

Why not?

I haven't heard of any huge personal issue.

Rozier being totally fed up with Kyrie I knew about... but not anything to that degree between Brown and Kyrie.

Might be right, but something tells me Brown, Tatum, Rozier and Stevens would all volunteer to drive Kyrie to the airport if it gets him to go.

 

[Gman]

Might be right, but something tells me Brown, Tatum, Rozier and Stevens would all volunteer to drive Kyrie to the airport if it gets him to go.

We're talking professionals here... they don't all have to eat holiday meals at the same table, but they should be able to work together.

IMO, Rozier has been unprofessional in this scenario... and to the extent that anyone else thinks or acts like Rozier... (I haven't seen any evidence of that, btw)... they would be just as much to blame as Kyrie.

 

[dtgold88]

We're talking professionals here... they don't all have to eat holiday meals at the same table, but they should be able to work together.

IMO, Rozier has been unprofessional in this scenario... and to the extent that anyone else thinks or acts like Rozier... (I haven't seen any evidence of that, btw)... they would be just as much to blame as Kyrie.

Doesn't has anything to do with how they get along off the court, it's more about how Kyrie plays on the court. Ball dominant player and the ball moves freely when he is out.

 

[The Q]

I believe so.

It is not a novel creation of mine... I have seen the same or almost the same floated.

Why not?

I haven't heard of any huge personal issue.

Rozier being totally fed up with Kyrie I knew about... but not anything to that degree between Brown and Kyrie.

I read kyrie has clashed with all 3. Including blasting them all at different times.

I don't blame Rozier for being upset. But it happens. He also has better numbers as a starter.

Danny also should've traded him for that first from Phoenix at the trade deadline.

 

[Gman]

Doesn't has anything to do with how they get along off the court, it's more about how Kyrie plays on the court. Ball dominant player and the ball moves freely when he is out.

Well... for one thing, I was responding to @The Q's suggestion that there was indeed some personal issue between Brown and Kyrie... for another thing, I don't think we can turn a blind eye towards the off-the-court nonsense that Kyrie has been party to. IOW: I wouldn't be surprised if these guys and Kyrie all weren't best buds off-the-court.

 

[Gman]

I don't blame Rozier for being upset.

Me either. I blame him for:

1.) Running his mouth to a bunch of different media sources with whiny complaints and thinly veiled shots at not only Kyrie but other teammates and coaches.

2.) Playing like garbage last year. At least Kyrie can F'n play... that's why he did and absolutely should have taken your role, Scary Terry.