Carter and Richards hard partying ways led to trades?

[jstewismybastardson]

SUUUUURPPPPPPPRISE!!!

Dan Gross: Partying prompted parting? | Philadelphia Daily News | 07/25/2011


The two unnamed players said that the Flyers front office was disappointed in Carter and Richards' longstanding party lifestyle and that teammates were concerned about the pair's drinking


Shortly after his arrival in December 2009, coach Peter Laviolette instituted what players came to call the "Dry Island." Laviolette asked team members to commit to not drinking for a month, and each player was asked to write his number on a locker room board as a pledge. No. 17 (Carter) and No. 18 (Richards) were absent from the board on the first Dry Island, as well as the estimated five more times the policy was instituted.

 

[flyersfan4706]

Just got on to post about this. It really shows how they were not commited, and it pisses me off.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

DGB:

Jeremy Roenick: Cry Island. Kyle Wellwood: Fry Island. Alexei Kovalev: Don't Bother To Try Island.

 

[elocomotive]

Just got on to post about this.

Me too. I'm not sure if it shows they weren't committed, but it certainly sheds more light on the off-ice stuff that contributed to the trades.

Not sure if it's fair of a coach to ask his players to do that. If I don't have a drinking problem, why should I be asked to "give up" having a beer or a cocktail with dinner once in awhile. Seems like this is an individual conversation the coach/management should have had with certain players if they perceived a problem.

So, while I think it is a little sucky they didn't participate in a team thing, it's also sucky this was asked of them in the first place.

I also wonder what players did not participate - was it just the two of them? Or were they two of a handful of players?

 

[dash]

Ricky Williams: High Island

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Not sure if it's fair of a coach to ask his players to do that. If I don't have a drinking problem, why should I be asked to "give up" having a beer or a cocktail with dinner once in awhile. Seems like this is an individual conversation the coach/management should have had with certain players if they perceived a problem.

when Tom Renney first coached with the Canucks in the later 90's, he banned alcohol from flights. That went over like a lead balloon. He tried to coach as if he was still coaching juniors.

At some point you have to treat the guys like they are men.

In this situation though, this whole dry island thing shows how concerned flyer management must have been with the 2 players that they would have to bring this concept into the dressing room

 

[puckhead]

I also wonder what players did not participate - was it just the two of them? Or were they two of a handful of players?

this says there was more:
Unnamed Flyers blame ‘Dry Island’, partying for Carter/Richards deals - Puck Daddy - NHLBlog - Yahoo! Sports

In a phone interview Thursday, Flyers General Manager Paul Holmgren confirmed that Richards and Carter hadn't put their numbers on the board, but said there had been others who declined. "We carry 23 players and there wasn't 23 numbers up there."

 

[elocomotive]

Pavel Datsyuk - Good Guy Island
Phil Kessel - Why Island
Jeff Skinner - Senior High Island
Alex Ovechkin - Spy Island

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Derek Boogaard:



/too soon

 

[elocomotive]

At some point you have to treat the guys like they are men.

In this situation though, this whole dry island thing shows how concerned flyer management must have been with the 2 players that they would have to bring this concept into the dressing room

So I guess there were others, but I was saying I don't know if these two were the REASON for the policy or if they were just dissenters against Laviolette's policy.

It's also a little funny for that policy in the Flyers' organization in particular since their Cup-winning years were filled with stories of late drunken nights at the bars. Though it was a different era in terms of "conditioning."

 

[pixburgher66]

I have no issue with a coach challenging players in that way. It's a good idea. Alcohol has a very prominent place in hockey, it's part of the culture of the game, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, as a professional athlete you have to take extra good care of your body, and drinking and partying nights before games is never a good idea. Outside of hangovers and how those affect you, alcohol will most certainly dehydrate you. Players SHOULD be able to handle the responsibility of drinking responsibly and not hurt their performance on the ice...but if a coach wants to try to spark and motivate his players to do it, why not? Getting hammered in the season is just not a good idea, whether it's the day before a game, a practice, or even an off day (your body needs to recover from the beating it takes from hockey, not alcohol and hockey). That's not to say you can't drink though...just in moderation.

 

[elocomotive]

That's not to say you can't drink though...just in moderation.

Yeah, but it doesn't sound like moderation was tolerated on "dry island."

Pix, you're right about the effects of alcohol on performance, but shouldn't it be the performance that is the concern? If a guy's play is suffering, the team should deal with that on an individual basis, no?

I understand maybe a no drinking/curfew the night before a game, but these are adults, they should be able to have a beer or whatever with their friends or teammates from time-to-time. I'd certainly have an issue if my workplace imposed something like this on the staff.

 

[awaz]

So I guess there were others, but I was saying I don't know if these two were the REASON for the policy or if they were just dissenters against Laviolette's policy.

It's also a little funny for that policy in the Flyers' organization in particular since their Cup-winning years were filled with stories of late drunken nights at the bars. Though it was a different era in terms of "conditioning."

by all accounts they were.. it was the two of them, lupul, hartnell, and upshall.. they partied like college kids and it got all of them, save hartnell, traded

i dont think it was the only reason.. but they definitely partied and partied hard

i think it says a lot when a team has to invoke a policy like this, and even more that these two wouldn't sign it.. it was well publicized before that richards and lava didn't get along.. and carter+richards were inseperable, so i'm sure carter didn't get along with lava either

the trades were simply the flyers FO taking the coach over the players, a very rare decision

 

[awaz]

Yeah, but it doesn't sound like moderation was tolerated on "dry island."

Pix, you're right about the effects of alcohol on performance, but shouldn't it be the performance that is the concern? If a guy's play is suffering, the team should deal with that on an individual basis, no?

I understand maybe a no drinking/curfew the night before a game, but these are adults, they should be able to have a beer or whatever with their friends or teammates from time-to-time. I'd certainly have an issue if my workplace imposed something like this on the staff.

if drinking was affecting your work, your workplace would invoke it too..

i think its sad that it had to be done.. but i dont think the flyers had a choice

 

[elocomotive]

i think it says a lot when a team has to invoke a policy like this, and even more that these two wouldn't sign it.. it was well publicized before that richards and lava didn't get along.. and carter+richards were inseperable, so i'm sure carter didn't get along with lava either

the trades were simply the flyers FO taking the coach over the players, a very rare decision

Yeah, fair enough. And thanks for the extra detail, Awaz.

Maybe they are both just idiots and it wouldn't have mattered, but it seems like the team/management could have dealt with it differently than a team-wide ban. Then again, maybe they did and this was just a last straw kind of measure. Hard to know... and too bad we won't get to see it on 24/7!

 

[elocomotive]

if drinking was affecting your work, your workplace would invoke it too..

That's my point though. If my office had 3 people who were drinking too much and it was impacting their work, the solution wouldn't be nobody in the office can drink for a month! They'd call me in and say "get help or fix the problem or you're fired."

I guess though they didn't MAKE anyone not drink. They made it voluntary to I guess hope the pressure from the other players would push these guys into doing it. Probably only made things worse. But like I said, maybe they took other steps before that.

 

[pixburgher66]

In my eyes this was a perfect opportunity to be a leader. I think the move that sealed the fate of Richards in Philly was making him captain. Captains don't make those choices. And eloco, you're right, they should treat them like adults, but when they start acting like kids, treat them as such. And I agree that it'd be odd if your place of work did that to you, but it's just different. These teams have so much money invested they're allowed to have certain rules. Dry Island was completely alcohol free, but I think that was just a challenge for them. Can you do this? Can you commit to a month of it to see if it helps your play?

 

[dare2be]

Derek Boogaard:



/too soon

Um, Princess Di?



/no, wait, bad example

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Um, Princess Di?



/no, wait, bad example

was gonna use a certain Norwegian Island but Im waiting for Comeds to play the role of Gilbert Gottfried

 

[awaz]

Yeah, fair enough. And thanks for the extra detail, Awaz.

Maybe they are both just idiots and it wouldn't have mattered, but it seems like the team/management could have dealt with it differently than a team-wide ban. Then again, maybe they did and this was just a last straw kind of measure. Hard to know... and too bad we won't get to see it on 24/7!

for sure.. seeing that would've been very interesting

That's my point though. If my office had 3 people who were drinking too much and it was impacting their work, the solution wouldn't be nobody in the office can drink for a month! They'd call me in and say "get help or fix the problem or you're fired."

I guess though they didn't MAKE anyone not drink. They made it voluntary to I guess hope the pressure from the other players would push these guys into doing it. Probably only made things worse. But like I said, maybe they took other steps before that.

i think it was a last straw kind of deal.. maybe call them out in front of the team after calling them out repeatedly in private?

and as far as you getting fired if drinking affected your work.. its a little different because you cant just flat out fire a hockey player, but in the end isn't that what basically happened? the flyers fired richards and carter?

i'm guessing carter was so shocked because the flyers FO had hinted at it, and threatened to do it if their attitudes didn't change.. and the media+fans said they were 'untouchable' so the dynamic duo tested homer, and he backed up his words with action, something 17+18 didn't expect

i dont think drinking was the primary reason they got traded.. but i do think the flyers had a problem with their attitude.. which was very me first and having a good time was more important than winning to them.. i think the partying was just a piece of the attitude problem