POLL C. C Sabathia and the HOF

[tducey]

Yeah, he's a Hall of Famer in my book.

 

[PolarVortex]

234 wins
146 losses

3.74 ERA

6 times AS

1 CY
4 top 5 finishes

led the AL in wins twice, starts twice, IP once, CG once, and shutouts once (all different seasons)

from 2007-2013 he averaged a whopping 230 IP a season

career WAR is 66.2

I say if he reaches 250 wins hes a lock for the HOF. You?

Mussina has to go in before CC and Moose has been eligible for the last four years. CC's best two years were better than anything Moose ever did. But, Moose's overall body of work is better than CC's. He was in the top 10 in the CY vote 9 times and CC only 5 times. He won 6 gold gloves and CC - well - CC never saw a ground ball he wanted to lean over for.

ERA/ERA+
Moose 3.68/123
CC 3.71/117

IP/WAR
Moose 3562.2/87
CC 3299.1/60

CC tends to be over-Jetered because he is was a power pitcher and most fans foolishly tend to value power over finesse.

 

[Rock Strongo]

CC Sabathia can see 300 anytime he wants ... just step on the scale

Seriously, Jack Morris v. CC Sabathia, I think Morris wins out ... Morris won more games than any other pitcher in the 1980's and has 3 World Series Rings from 3 different teams.

No one else should be able to enter the Hall of Fame until they take care of the obvious Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker (19 year Keystone combination) and Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire (all of who had to bat against pitchers on PEDs) and Roger Clemens (who had to pitch against batters on PEDs).

morris's ERA was always considered too high, but thats by old standards me thinks. he was a man on the mound. he never had the accolades tho. TON of CG's but thats about it. i also, all that aside, think morris should be in.

is he still the last 20 game winner with an ERA over 4.00?

 

[soxfan1468927]

Mussina has to go in before CC and Moose has been eligible for the last four years. CC's best two years were better than anything Moose ever did. But, Moose's overall body of work is better than CC's. He was in the top 10 in the CY vote 9 times and CC only 5 times. He won 6 gold gloves and CC - well - CC never saw a ground ball he wanted to lean over for.

ERA/ERA+
Moose 3.68/123
CC 3.71/117

IP/WAR
Moose 3562.2/87
CC 3299.1/60

CC tends to be over-Jetered because he is was a power pitcher and most fans foolishly tend to value power over finesse.

I agree that Mussina was better and should be in. I think he will too. His support has gone up considerably from his 1st ballot to the most recent.

 

[soxfan1468927]

morris's ERA was always considered too high, but thats by old standards me thinks. he was a man on the mound. he never had the accolades tho. TON of CG's but thats about it. i also, all that aside, think morris should be in.

is he still the last 20 game winner with an ERA over 4.00?

Not even by "old standards". He has 2 seasons in the top 5 of the AL in ERA.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Mussina has to go in before CC and Moose has been eligible for the last four years. CC's best two years were better than anything Moose ever did. But, Moose's overall body of work is better than CC's. He was in the top 10 in the CY vote 9 times and CC only 5 times. He won 6 gold gloves and CC - well - CC never saw a ground ball he wanted to lean over for.

ERA/ERA+
Moose 3.68/123
CC 3.71/117

IP/WAR
Moose 3562.2/87
CC 3299.1/60

CC tends to be over-Jetered because he is was a power pitcher and most fans foolishly tend to value power over finesse.

moose should also be in. he won 120+ games for 2 franchises and was a COG on a world series dynasty.

 

[soxfan1468927]

morris's ERA was always considered too high, but thats by old standards me thinks. he was a man on the mound. he never had the accolades tho. TON of CG's but thats about it. i also, all that aside, think morris should be in.

is he still the last 20 game winner with an ERA over 4.00?

And to the last point, Pettitte won 21 in 2003, David Wells and Tim Hudson won 20 in 2000 with ERAs over 4.00. Rick Helling won 20 with a 4.41 ERA in 1998.

 

[Rock Strongo]

And to the last point, Pettitte won 21 in 2003, David Wells and Tim Hudson won 20 in 2000 with ERAs over 4.00. Rick Helling won 20 with a 4.41 ERA in 1998.

i remember at the time he was the first to do it in the modern era

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

Is he going for the buffet?

He can sit beside Pete Rose. That guy has really got fat

 

[soxfan1468927]

i remember at the time he was the first to do it in the modern era

Jim Merritt did it in 1970.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Mercenary with no ring. And fat as fuck.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I agree that Mussina was better and should be in. I think he will too. His support has gone up considerably from his 1st ballot to the most recent.

Mussina first and only 20 win season was his last

Dont think it should matter, but wonder if it does to voters

Not to mention he was an intellectual that had no use for the media in Balt and than in the biggest market in the world, so that never wins ya points

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Mercenary with no ring. And fat as fuck.

2009 says hi

 

[soxfan1468927]

Mercenary with no ring. And fat as fuck.

He was dominant in that 2009 World Series run. I assume you just blocked that out.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

2009 says hi

They won in 09? Holy sheet

 

[Sgt Brutus]

I always just think of the Dbacks killing their feel good story in 02

 

[soxfan1468927]

Mussina first and only 20 win season was his last

Dont think it should matter, but wonder if it does to voters

Not to mention he was an intellectual that had no use for the media in Balt and than in the biggest market in the world, so that never wins ya points

It might, but he's already over 50% on just his 4th ballot. So I assume he'll get in. The Hall has been pretty selective on pitchers lately for some reason. There were 9 pitchers inducted who finished their careers in the six years between 1983 and 1988. There have been 9 since then.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I always just think of the Dbacks killing their feel good story in 02

yeah, if not for that Hung Ko Chop Suey closer on Arizona, the Yankees had no right being in that series

 

[navamind]

Mercenary with no ring. And fat as fuck.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Jim Merritt did it in 1970.

ok, then it was since 1970 asshole