Buyer or Seller?

[calsnowskier]

Didnt the Padres give up like 4 of their top 5 prospects? No way we could beat that. On the radio they said if FZ had been really creative he could have dealt Rodon and Joc for 2-3 big prospects then add in Luciano and someone and maybe get it done.

I suspect what happened was everyone lowballed us on Rodon and FZ thought better to not just take whatever because then he has the rep of being the guy who will sell cheap

Hassell, prospect-wise, is approximately equal to Harrison (per MLB’s rankings, for whatever they are worth). Luciano is better than both (again, based on MLB, and you are totally allowed to poopoo their rankings). But equating one team’s top 5 to another team’s top 5 is akin to saying Belt is good because “he is the team’s best hitter”.

Now maybe they liked getting Gore (an approximation of Webb, maybe), and we didn’t have an approximation of Abrams, but I am not sure we have been asking for BOTH Soto AND Bell.

I suspect that if FZ were willing to part with BOTH Luciano AND Harrison, that would have put us more in the mix.

It is absolutely possible that it wouldn’t have. Sure. But I think those two together would have been enough of a prize that the rest would have been worked out.

I am not advocating that FZ should have done this. I don’t think it would have been the right move for the Giants. I am just saying that I think it could have been done.

 

[pachyderm]

So, catcher is the new middle infielder (or in Proctor's case, catcher and middle infielder is the new middle infielder)?

I wish a decent starting pitcher was the "new middle infielder".

 

[Mays-Fan]

Well, Soto had no choice in the matter, he could express a preference but he's not an FA until after 2024. But yeah, the thought might have been that no way he'd re-sign here for that reason and why strip the farm for 2+ years when they are more than one bat away from contending.

Agreed. And I was incomplete in my thinking. Maybe WE didn't want him for that reason.

 

[msgkings322]

Agreed. And I was incomplete in my thinking. Maybe WE didn't want him for that reason.

A little of both surely. I didn't think we could do a package that would win anyway, and it would not have made sense for us to do that. Overpaying an FA is another story, that's just money, no players lost.

Here's the Athletic talking about how FZ can salvage this thing if they are willing to spend big for next year:

Kawakami: How Farhan Zaidi can get the Giants out of this

The Giants are out of other options. There's one left: Go big after Aaron Judge, Trea Turner and two or three other free agents this winter.

theathletic.com

Not sure that's the way to go, I think we can be more patient, but it's one way to do it

 

[tzill]

A little of both surely. I didn't think we could do a package that would win anyway, and it would not have made sense for us to do that. Overpaying an FA is another story, that's just money, no players lost.

Here's the Athletic talking about how FZ can salvage this thing if they are willing to spend big for next year:

Kawakami: How Farhan Zaidi can get the Giants out of this

The Giants are out of other options. There's one left: Go big after Aaron Judge, Trea Turner and two or three other free agents this winter.

theathletic.com

Not sure that's the way to go, I think we can be more patient, but it's one way to do it

It is A way...but I think it mostly fails. You can't really buy yourself from mediocrity into contention. It's gotta be more home grown I think.

 

[msgkings322]

It is A way...but I think it mostly fails. You can't really buy yourself from mediocrity into contention. It's gotta be more home grown I think.

I agree, the best way takes patience. You tear it down, wait 3 years for the prospects to be ready, then add 2-3 free agents and contend for a few years. That's how the Cubs, Astros, Padres and others did it. White Sox too but of course they haven't done a whole lot yet.

 

[tzill]

I agree, the best way takes patience. You tear it down, wait 3 years for the prospects to be ready, then add 2-3 free agents and contend for a few years. That's how the Cubs, Astros, Padres and others did it. White Sox too but of course they haven't done a whole lot yet.

agreed, alt. Although "tear it down" is never really an option for us. If it were, Rodon/Pedo/Brebbia/TRog/Wood/Cobb/Belt/Flores would mostly be gone.

 

[tzill]

Add LWJ/Yaz/Slater to the above.

 

[tzill]

We can't really tear it down...the crowds would dwindle to nothing and the ownership wouldn't stand for that. But we can 'retool'

 

[calsnowskier]

agreed, alt. Although "tear it down" is never really an option for us. If it were, Rodon/Pedo/Brebbia/TRog/Wood/Cobb/Belt/Flores would mostly be gone.

The last star that has been traded AWAY from the Giants was Williams. And that was an off-season trade. This team just doesn’t know how to “sell”.

 

[tzill]

The last star that has been traded AWAY from the Giants was Williams. And that was an off-season trade. This team just doesn’t know how to “sell”.

Fanbase is too fickle...they can't be perceived as throwing in the towel.

 

[msgkings322]

Fanbase is too fickle...they can't be perceived as throwing in the towel.

Then we're gonna be stuck for a long time.

 

[SF11704]

I agree with most of everything everyone has said but I also feel that the financial lanfscape of baseball is changing and not for the better.

No matter what approach we use or how many top level prodpects we have there will come a point that you have to purchase pieces on the FA market. Some of the current prices could cripple a franchise forever. Soto turned down 445M for 15 years.. Judge will go for 350-400M for 10 years. Not overwhelming if it works but what if it fails and your centerpiece starts losing productiity quickly. I'm not sure what you have left is even tradable at what you need to break even.

Maybe the answer is to stay away from the first tier players and fillout the team with 2nd and 3rd tier players. That's pretty much what our 107 win season looked like. No real centerpiece.

Also difficult when you have two rivals in your division that have a lot of talent and the funds to buy what they need when they need it. Closing a few holes is much easier than something that resembles a rebuild. Just my 2 cents ...

 

[calsnowskier]

Then we're gonna be stuck for a long time.

Do what the doggies did 10 years ago. Make trades for young talent while eating horrible contracts. Similar to the Wilson trade.

Buy your divisional contention until you can develop it. The churn should be used to supplement the roster, not build it.

 

[LHG]

I agree with most of everything everyone has said but I also feel that the financial lanfscape of baseball is changing and not for the better.

No matter what approach we use or how many top level prodpects we have there will come a point that you have to purchase pieces on the FA market. Some of the current prices could cripple a franchise forever. Soto turned down 445M for 15 years.. Judge will go for 350-400M for 10 years. Not overwhelming if it works but what if it fails and your centerpiece starts losing productiity quickly. I'm not sure what you have left is even tradable at what you need to break even.

Maybe the answer is to stay away from the first tier players and fillout the team with 2nd and 3rd tier players. That's pretty much what our 107 win season looked like. No real centerpiece.

Also difficult when you have two rivals in your division that have a lot of talent and the funds to buy what they need when they need it. Closing a few holes is much easier than something that resembles a rebuild. Just my 2 cents ...

For recent example of how buying a contender goes badly, see Angels, Los Angeles.

 

[calsnowskier]

I agree with most of everything everyone has said but I also feel that the financial lanfscape of baseball is changing and not for the better.

No matter what approach we use or how many top level prodpects we have there will come a point that you have to purchase pieces on the FA market. Some of the current prices could cripple a franchise forever. Soto turned down 445M for 15 years.. Judge will go for 350-400M for 10 years. Not overwhelming if it works but what if it fails and your centerpiece starts losing productiity quickly. I'm not sure what you have left is even tradable at what you need to break even.

Maybe the answer is to stay away from the first tier players and fillout the team with 2nd and 3rd tier players. That's pretty much what our 107 win season looked like. No real centerpiece.

Also difficult when you have two rivals in your division that have a lot of talent and the funds to buy what they need when they need it. Closing a few holes is much easier than something that resembles a rebuild. Just my 2 cents ...

The Pads don’t have a farm anymore. They blew their load. They are in absolute win now mode.

 

[LHG]

The Pads don’t have a farm anymore. They blew their load. They are in absolute win now mode.

Last time they did that, they were scrambling to restock their farm in the next season.

 

[calsnowskier]

Last time they did that, they were scrambling to restock their farm in the next season.

This seems like a better build than that last one. But you are 100% correct.

 

[pachyderm]

This seems like a better build than that last one. But you are 100% correct.

Just realized that Tatis Jr. hasn't even been playing this season.

According to ESPN he starts his AAA rehab this weekend.

They're going to get a little better again in a week or so...

 

[LHG]

Just realized that Tatis Jr. hasn't even been playing this season.

According to ESPN he starts his AAA rehab this weekend.

They're going to get a little better again in a week or so...

If he can stay healthy. He's becoming the Brandon Belt of the Padres.