browns week.

[Cincyfan78]

I know Goodberry said it wouldn't happen - and it's certainly not the Bengals MO...and the cap hit makes it necessary to re-work a deal, and actually pay him...

But I would explore a trade for Max Crosby. That would immediately vault this defense into another tier. Suddenly, I think the DL goes from ho-hum to - Very good because now with 2 pass-rushers, you suddenly can allow the DT's to do what they need to do - and unleash Trey and Max together. Also helps the backend defense.

He's 27. I think he has 2-3 more years on his current deal, but would likely want a new deal, and it would be needed to get the cap down for this year (if that's even possible with a restructure).

Not the Bengals MO - again - but it is something I would look into....heavily.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If you get up early - you force the game into Watson's hands, and help the defense by making their offense very one-dimensional in an area that has been very poor to date.

This is going to show us a bit more about the defense. Sunday Night was a step in the right direction, but bigger to me is this week and a game like the Raiders - where the defense should be able to dominate the majority of the game against a very poor offense. If those offenses move the ball and put up points - there are bigger issues at hand. Everyone is healthy. Everyone is back (except Hill who is out for the year). No more excuses. Lou needs to figure out a way to get it done.

On the bright side - McKinley and Jenkins have both looked to be very good. As the season progresses - I do expect them to be better and help that DL. Rankins, obviously helps...but they still need more pass-rush outside of Trey. Got to find a way to make it happen. Once again, Hendrickson had 2 sacks - no one else had a single sack, or shared sack. This is a major issue.

Need more time for Murphy to get his feet under him. I like Hubbard and think he has a place on this team, but on critical rush downs we need to get Murphy out there and do more stunts and CB, or safety blitz off the edge. Lou needs to design more exotic blitz packages to confuse the offense.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Need more time for Murphy to get his feet under him. I like Hubbard and think he has a place on this team, but on critical rush downs we need to get Murphy out there and do more stunts and CB, or safety blitz off the edge. Lou needs to design more exotic blitz packages to confuse the offense.

I agree.

Lou isn't much of a blitz guy - but I think with this personnel he needs to re-consider. He doesn't need to get crazy, but they do need to come up with some looks and packages that can help free up the DL and get more pressure. You can line up 7 on the line and back 1 or 2 guys out, you can send 6 and another time send 4....

But far more often than not - even on critical downs - you see just 4 guys rushing, and the LB's in read/react mode...which works if those 4 get pressure...without it - they get eaten alive - and that's what has been happening.

It's even hard to tell just how good/bad the DB's are at times because QB's have 3-4-5 seconds to throw. Eventually, someone is getting open.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I know Goodberry said it wouldn't happen - and it's certainly not the Bengals MO...and the cap hit makes it necessary to re-work a deal, and actually pay him...

But I would explore a trade for Max Crosby. That would immediately vault this defense into another tier. Suddenly, I think the DL goes from ho-hum to - Very good because now with 2 pass-rushers, you suddenly can allow the DT's to do what they need to do - and unleash Trey and Max together. Also helps the backend defense.

He's 27. I think he has 2-3 more years on his current deal, but would likely want a new deal, and it would be needed to get the cap down for this year (if that's even possible with a restructure).

Not the Bengals MO - again - but it is something I would look into....heavily.

Why would we rework the contract? The Raiders are stuck for the guarantee pretty much. Offer the Raiders a 2nd and 5th round pick, and trade someone costing us $10 million plus. Next year Higgins comes off the bill and I am sure a couple others. We could afford him the next two years. Makes it much more affordable if we don't rework the contract.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Why would we rework the contract? The Raiders are stuck for the guarantee pretty much. Offer the Raiders a 2nd and 5th round pick, and trade someone costing us $10 million plus. Next year Higgins comes off the bill and I am sure a couple others. We could afford him the next two years. Makes it much more affordable if we don't rework the contract.

New team takes on 16M, per Goodberry. That would put the Bengals over the slot.

So, a new contract would have to be had in order to reduce the amount owed this year - a new contract and turning this year into a bonus payment would allow them to pay out the $16M but spread that over the life of the contract....so, they could take a $6M hit this year, and then spread the final $12M over the next 3 years...

I believe this was the issue - but if you read differently - let me know.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Why would we rework the contract? The Raiders are stuck for the guarantee pretty much. Offer the Raiders a 2nd and 5th round pick, and trade someone costing us $10 million plus. Next year Higgins comes off the bill and I am sure a couple others. We could afford him the next two years. Makes it much more affordable if we don't rework the contract.

x.com

x.com

 

[Cincyfan78]

So - I disagree with Joe - it can be done - I don't think it takes mountains to get done.

The Bengals are set to have $66M in cap space next year - Chase will take a chunk, but that leaves a TON of room.

You can either sweeten the pot to the Raiders to eat more of the salary (higher picks to trade) or simply make the changes needed.

Issue, likely, comes down to just how much do the Bengals want to spend on a DE - I'd say, that's a premium position in a passing league. Trey is here for 1 more year, and then what? He'll be 30-31ish. Dealing for Max gives you a sure DE to help replace him, and over the next 2 years - team up with him to form a hell of a tandem at DE

 

[DanBengalfan]

after thinking about this a bit, if the player is available, like Crosby. the bengals would simply just get outbid by another team that is more confident in their chances to contend.

the deal seems out of charachter for the Bengals, but players like this are hard to come by and we SHOULD do it now, rather than trying to find a deal in free agency next season or get lucky and draft a player. probably won't though.

 

[Cincyfan78]

after thinking about this a bit, if the player is available, like Crosby. the bengals would simply just get outbid by another team that is more confident in their chances to contend.

the deal seems out of charachter for the Bengals, but players like this are hard to come by and we SHOULD do it now, rather than trying to find a deal in free agency next season or get lucky and draft a player. probably won't though.

A - you are right. Way out of character for the Bengals.

1B - The Cap is an issue. Again, Crosby is due about $16M for the rest of the year, guaranteed. Bengals only have $9M in cap. Could it be done? Yes. But, it would cost a new contract, which would then obviously escalate as Crosby will be due a pretty damn hefty contract.

B - Crosby could end up elsewhere, but because he's contracted - and would likely require a new contract since most teams are going to need cap space - he would have to agree to go where he's going, and likely there would have to be a pre-agreement on a restructured contract before agreeing to the trade. If not, you end up with a Reddick situation - and seeing how that has played out, teams are going to want to be sure there is a contract agreement in place prior to agreeing to the trade.

C - It won't happen. Bengals are way out on this MO - it's just what I would look at - and at some point the Bengals will HAVE to spend on defense - and you could do a lot worse than getting a top tier DE - and having nearly 2 years to pair him with another guy like Hendrickson....

 

[cincygrad]

A - you are right. Way out of character for the Bengals.

1B - The Cap is an issue. Again, Crosby is due about $16M for the rest of the year, guaranteed. Bengals only have $9M in cap. Could it be done? Yes. But, it would cost a new contract, which would then obviously escalate as Crosby will be due a pretty damn hefty contract.

B - Crosby could end up elsewhere, but because he's contracted - and would likely require a new contract since most teams are going to need cap space - he would have to agree to go where he's going, and likely there would have to be a pre-agreement on a restructured contract before agreeing to the trade. If not, you end up with a Reddick situation - and seeing how that has played out, teams are going to want to be sure there is a contract agreement in place prior to agreeing to the trade.

C - It won't happen. Bengals are way out on this MO - it's just what I would look at - and at some point the Bengals will HAVE to spend on defense - and you could do a lot worse than getting a top tier DE - and having nearly 2 years to pair him with another guy like Hendrickson....

Even if the Bengals were a team that would do this sort of thing, I think the market is going to drive up the price. Crosby is a much more valuable addition than Davante Adams. Edge is a more premium position, simply because there are fewer edges that can rush the passer at a high level. Receivers are a premium position, but there are lots of good ones. Plus, the age factor is a big issue. Adams is a 31 year old receiver and big receivers like him are hit and miss after 30. Crosby is in the prime of his career. Crosby could be the missing piece for several contenders including Detroit, San Francisco, and Baltimore - All teams that might make this sort of deal. But, given this market, I think it's going to cost a fair amount of draft capital to make it happen. Davis shouldn't move Crosby just to move him - He could easily move him this offseason when teams have more cash and cap room to play with and he would get a big deal for him. Ultimately, I think the market conditions keep any deal from happening this year.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Even if the Bengals were a team that would do this sort of thing, I think the market is going to drive up the price. Crosby is a much more valuable addition than Davante Adams. Edge is a more premium position, simply because there are fewer edges that can rush the passer at a high level. Receivers are a premium position, but there are lots of good ones. Plus, the age factor is a big issue. Adams is a 31 year old receiver and big receivers like him are hit and miss after 30. Crosby is in the prime of his career. Crosby could be the missing piece for several contenders including Detroit, San Francisco, and Baltimore - All teams that might make this sort of deal. But, given this market, I think it's going to cost a fair amount of draft capital to make it happen. Davis shouldn't move Crosby just to move him - He could easily move him this offseason when teams have more cash and cap room to play with and he would get a big deal for him. Ultimately, I think the market conditions keep any deal from happening this year.

All valid points.

It would come down to asking price (as I've said) and what the Bengals would realistically give up.

Is it likely to happen? Again, no - but you'd be silly not to pick up the phone and at least have that conversation.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Chubb is back just for the Bengals.

 

[jbuck]

Charley Jones....

 

[DanBengalfan]

Charley Jones....

who needs an offense, when you have a good kick returner. we're gonna run the dumbest plays on offense and punt a lot.

 

[DanBengalfan]

and the Browns just became half way decent.

chubb in
watson out

 

[DanBengalfan]

with all the fire power we have on offense...

something needs to be done, the camels back is broken, and the horse is dead.

 

[Cincyfan78]

At half-time there were 5 drives. 5 punts. 3 runs for RB's.

Make it make sense.

1st drive of second half had 3 runs alone...and the offense looked much better.

No quibbles with running the ball late - but can Taylor swap out 2 of his 4 Tecmo Bowl plays for something that gives them more space? For example - backed up on their goal-line, they spread out the defense going wide, and Brown shot through the middle as the defense was spread out.

Then he goes right back to jumbo-formation and neither RB has room...but, in the end - they won.

However, Money Mac needs to start earning his money. Making way too much to have been as inconsistent as he's been this year to start, IMO....

 

[Cincyfan78]

One final thought - Brown with 58% of the snaps at RB - slowly, but surely, they are moving towards RB1 for him.

Currently, he's at 5.0 YPC on 66 carries. He did struggle yesterday, but I'll attribute at least a small portion of that to getting some runs at the end of the game where both the offense/defense were geared up for the run.

Moss also struggled yesterday (very badly) and for the season is at 3.3 YPC on 69 carries.

I honestly don't know how good/bad Brown is at pass blocking - I don't really notice him...but I can say the same for Moss. However, Brown is just more explosive and decisive when running. My eyes tell me that he just looks better...and the stats seem to back this up. I'm rolling with him as RB1 on 1st and 2nd downs, and maybe 3rd and shorts. Moss can be the 3rd Down back on 3rd and 4+, and spell Brown when needed...but I long for the day where the offense gets to the point where they are balanced for the majority of the game.

They did finish with 21 runs for the RB's and 25 passes...so the second half leaned heavily on the run - and the offense moved the ball well - other than killing clock mode - and even then they got into FG range.

More running, more diversity in the offense, is a good thing for Burrow. I firmly believe that he, and the OL, will greatly benefit if they lean a bit more into the run and keep defenses honest.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

One final thought - Brown with 58% of the snaps at RB - slowly, but surely, they are moving towards RB1 for him.

Currently, he's at 5.0 YPC on 66 carries. He did struggle yesterday, but I'll attribute at least a small portion of that to getting some runs at the end of the game where both the offense/defense were geared up for the run.

Moss also struggled yesterday (very badly) and for the season is at 3.3 YPC on 69 carries.

I honestly don't know how good/bad Brown is at pass blocking - I don't really notice him...but I can say the same for Moss. However, Brown is just more explosive and decisive when running. My eyes tell me that he just looks better...and the stats seem to back this up. I'm rolling with him as RB1 on 1st and 2nd downs, and maybe 3rd and shorts. Moss can be the 3rd Down back on 3rd and 4+, and spell Brown when needed...but I long for the day where the offense gets to the point where they are balanced for the majority of the game.

They did finish with 21 runs for the RB's and 25 passes...so the second half leaned heavily on the run - and the offense moved the ball well - other than killing clock mode - and even then they got into FG range.

More running, more diversity in the offense, is a good thing for Burrow. I firmly believe that he, and the OL, will greatly benefit if they lean a bit more into the run and keep defenses honest.

I would like to see the offense go more no huddle, fast attack on defenses like a 2 minute drill. That doesn't mean 100% passing plays, just more up tempo, knock the defense off their guard a bit and keep them guessing, and players on the field longer in the trenches. Those defensive lineman get tired trying to rush the QB, so let's keep them on the field longer, let Burrow call a few more plays at the line and keep the tempo up from time to time.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I would like to see the offense go more no huddle, fast attack on defenses like a 2 minute drill. That doesn't mean 100% passing plays, just more up tempo, knock the defense off their guard a bit and keep them guessing, and players on the field longer in the trenches. Those defensive lineman get tired trying to rush the QB, so let's keep them on the field longer, let Burrow call a few more plays at the line and keep the tempo up from time to time.

I'm down with that. Maybe not a full on no-huddle, but just more up-tempo. I like it.

Again - spread them out and make the defense decide what they are going to defend. If the Bengals are going 3-4 wide, Chase, Higgins, All/Gesicki and Brown in the backfield...either someone is open, or there is enough room up front for Brown to get you 5 yards. It'll also freeze the LB's and Safeties knowing that they *could* run the ball....