Bobby Wagner

Sharkonabicycle · Jun 17, 2015

Yah I think that's pretty fair. I REALLY underestimated Wagner prior to his injury. That defense was completely opposite without him. I know we played some better offenses when he was out, but still...

Wilson is the only thing holding some of this back. I really love Wilson, but not entirely sure if he's worth (at this point since Cam's signing) close to $25M/season.

I'd like to get one more year out of Wilson with Jimmy Graham, Lockett, and another year on Lynch with no RB acquisitions via FA/DRAFT (likely throw more, let's see what Wilson does with some receiving talent) before we go for the mega deal.

cdumler7 · Jun 17, 2015

Great player who is an unsung hero on a very loaded defense. Definitely has earned that type of contract. Would love to have him on my team for sure.

HaroldSeattle · Jun 17, 2015

We appreciate him. A must do, right after RW.

Southieinnc · Jun 18, 2015

The problem with the "must does" When you reach the top, all have helped you get there. You must make tough decisions.....

Wolvie · Jun 18, 2015

I dont see how we pay 10per for Wagner and 23+per for Wilson without cutting some fat. This may be the last year with Lynch

gowazzu02 · Jun 18, 2015

Wolverine830872 said:
I dont see how we pay 10per for Wagner and 23+per for Wilson without cutting some fat. This may be the last year with Lynch

Okungs coming off the books next year, the caps going up. John Schneider is smarter then all of us and most people in the nfl. We'll be fine.

"theres no way we can sign Sherman Kam AND ET" ---Schneidered
"Theres no way we can keep Bennett AND Avril"-----Schneidered
"Ok linebackers, KJ's can't possibly be signed"----Schneidered

boogiewithstu2007 · Jun 18, 2015

Southieinnc said:
The problem with the "must does" When you reach the top, all have helped you get there. You must make tough decisions.....

Tell me about it ... But hey, I still love the salary cap... makes the league fun ... Makes the draft so much more important every year....

boogiewithstu2007 · Jun 18, 2015

gowazzu02 said:
Okungs coming off the books next year, the caps going up. John Schneider is smarter then all of us and most people in the nfl. We'll be fine.

"theres no way we can sign Sherman Kam AND ET" ---Schneidered
"Theres no way we can keep Bennett AND Avril"-----Schneidered
"Ok linebackers, KJ's can't possibly be signed"----Schneidered

lol

Anointed One · Jun 20, 2015

Southieinnc said:
The problem with the "must does" When you reach the top, all have helped you get there. You must make tough decisions.....

Yep, which is why Maxwell is gone, Bruce Irvin will be gone ofter this season...

NWPATSFAN · Jun 22, 2015

gowazzu02 said:
Okungs coming off the books next year, the caps going up. John Schneider is smarter then all of us and most people in the nfl. We'll be fine.

"theres no way we can sign Sherman Kam AND ET" ---Schneidered
"Theres no way we can keep Bennett AND Avril"-----Schneidered
"Ok linebackers, KJ's can't possibly be signed"----Schneidered

Seattle has quite a few contracts that come up or fall off the books in 2016. Not all are going to break the bank but it's difficult to replace some of those SB caliber players at the same price; Mebane, Irvin, Ryan, McDaniel, Wag, Wilson, Turbin, Kearse, Lane, JeanPierre, Lockette.

Wolvie · Jun 22, 2015

NWPATSFAN said:
Seattle has quite a few contracts that come up or fall off the books in 2016. Not all are going to break the bank but it's difficult to replace some of those SB caliber players at the same price; Mebane, Irvin, Ryan, McDaniel, Wag, Wilson, Turbin, Kearse, Lane, JeanPierre, Lockette.

Either Turbin or Lynch will not be resigned when time comes. Kearse, Lockette, and Lane will all be gone as well. I wouldn't call those very tough decisions though.

Obviously Wagner and Wilson are the guys you need to move things around for, and I don't think it'll be too hard to sign them. Then the question becomes who do you keep between Mebane/Irvin/McDaniel/JeanPierre

gowazzu02 · Jun 23, 2015

Wolverine830872 said:
Either Turbin or Lynch will not be resigned when time comes. Kearse, Lockette, and Lane will all be gone as well. I wouldn't call those very tough decisions though.

Obviously Wagner and Wilson are the guys you need to move things around for, and I don't think it'll be too hard to sign them. Then the question becomes who do you keep between Mebane/Irvin/McDaniel/JeanPierre

Agreed, Wagner and wilson will be kept.

Then most likely one of Mebane or McDaniel at a pretty low number. Irvins gone, And Jean Pierre was hurt most of last year, so he needs to prove he can stay healthy to be considered for extending.

NWPATSFAN · Jun 23, 2015

Without a doubt Wag and Wilson are the priorities. But eventually it comes time to cash that check. Teams can't pay everyone top dollar. Both are well deserving so it will be interesting to see if either (more likely Wag IMO) makes it to FA. Once players like Wag and RW hit the FA wire it gets awfully spendy. Then even keep some of those mid level players becomes more difficult. That's why it's so important to lock up those mid level quality players at decent salaries. Seattle will stay competative regardless. I think once Lynch is gone it could get interesting. He's a huge weapon. I liken him to the effect Gronk has on teams. When he's out the Offense struggles.

JMR · Jun 25, 2015

NWPATSFAN said:
Without a doubt Wag and Wilson are the priorities. But eventually it comes time to cash that check. Teams can't pay everyone top dollar.

And the hasn't paid everyone. They have made some tough decisions. Tate not re-signed. Harvin traded away. Thurmond not re-signed. Unger traded away. Browner not re-signed. Irvin 5th year option not picked up. Z Miller cut. Malcolm Smith not re-signed. Clinton McDonald and Kevin Williams not re-signed. Carpenter 5th year option not picked up and then not re-signed. Giacomini not re-signed. Probably missing a guy or two but that's a lot of starters we've moved on from, and all from just the past couple off-seasons. The team has laid down some considerable coin for the core players, but I also don't think we're trying to pay homage to the early 00s Redskins here either.

I think once Lynch is gone it could get interesting. He's a huge weapon. I liken him to the effect Gronk has on teams. When he's out the Offense struggles.

Do you have data that says this or just an intuitive speculation? I love Lynch and all, but I actually think his value to the offense is overrated at times. He averaged about 25 more rush yards per game than RW last year. They help each other be more effective, but I think a bigger reason why the offense struggles is lack of a bona fide big target in the passing game. And RB is probably the easiest piece on the entire offense to replace; adding Graham will help more than not having Lynch will hurt -- just my prediction.

NWPATSFAN · Jun 25, 2015

JMR said:
And the hasn't paid everyone. They have made some tough decisions. Tate not re-signed. Harvin traded away. Thurmond not re-signed. Unger traded away. Browner not re-signed. Irvin 5th year option not picked up. Z Miller cut. Malcolm Smith not re-signed. Clinton McDonald and Kevin Williams not re-signed. Carpenter 5th year option not picked up and then not re-signed. Giacomini not re-signed. Probably missing a guy or two but that's a lot of starters we've moved on from, and all from just the past couple off-seasons. The team has laid down some considerable coin for the core players, but I also don't think we're trying to pay homage to the early 00s Redskins here either.

Do you have data that says this or just an intuitive speculation? I love Lynch and all, but I actually think his value to the offense is overrated at times. He averaged about 25 more rush yards per game than RW last year. They help each other be more effective, but I think a bigger reason why the offense struggles is lack of a bona fide big target in the passing game. And RB is probably the easiest piece on the entire offense to replace; adding Graham will help more than not having Lynch will hurt -- just my prediction.

No I have no data. Just speculation. When a key player like Lynch/Gronk is missing D's can game plan differently. I would add that much of RW yards come when he's scrambling. When the D is downfeild covering receivers and RBs. Making gaining yards easier. Naturally having his speed aids in that. RW running ability is certainley an asset. But I think using total yards gained isn't a just stat for the reason I mentioned. RBs can be replaced but there are only a few RBs that can do what he does.

JMR · Jun 25, 2015

NWPATSFAN said:
No I have no data. Just speculation. When a key player like Lynch/Gronk is missing D's can game plan differently. I would add that much of RW yards come when he's scrambling. When the D is downfeild covering receivers and RBs. Making gaining yards easier. Naturally having his speed aids in that. RW running ability is certainley an asset. But I think using total yards gained isn't a just stat for the reason I mentioned. RBs can be replaced but there are only a few RBs that can do what he does.

Hmmm.... not sure about that. Agree on the other stuff though. Lynch himself will not be as easy to replace as your average starting RB, but by the time we have to do that, RW will have developed as a passer, and it's possible the weapons around him in the passing game are better (they already are with Graham).

NWPATSFAN · Jun 25, 2015

JMR said:
Hmmm.... not sure about that. Agree on the other stuff though. Lynch himself will not be as easy to replace as your average starting RB, but by the time we have to do that, RW will have developed as a passer, and it's possible the weapons around him in the passing game are better (they already are with Graham).

Well you could certainley prove me wrong by pulling stats that dispute it? I'm personally too lazy to pull them up. I stand by his huge yards come on broken not designed plays which skew the totals when compared to a RB.

JMR · Jun 25, 2015

NWPATSFAN said:
Well you could certainley prove me wrong by pulling stats that dispute it? I'm personally too lazy to pull them up. I stand by his huge yards come on broken not designed plays which skew the totals when compared to a RB.

Just for the sake of argument (and mutual laziness), let's say it's 50/50. Is that not still something RW brings to the running game that cannot be discounted? Whether it's designed or a run after scramble while playing back yard football, is that not part of RW's game? Should he not be back in Seattle after 2015, he's not leaving that behind for whoever would be taking his place.

NWPATSFAN · Jun 27, 2015

JMR said:
Just for the sake of argument (and mutual laziness), let's say it's 50/50. Is that not still something RW brings to the running game that cannot be discounted? Whether it's designed or a run after scramble while playing back yard football, is that not part of RW's game? Should he not be back in Seattle after 2015, he's not leaving that behind for whoever would be taking his place.

I don`t consider broken plays/scrambles part of the "running game". We're arguing semantics. RWs ability to run on designed or broken plays is a huge asset. I just don't agree with comparing a QBs total run yards to a RB. I would many RBs feel slighted as they are breaking tackles/many players miss on designed runs to earn their yards.
IMHO it's comparing apples and oranges is all I'm trying to say.

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