Blue Line...Options and Opinions

[wbon22]

It is very possible that the Flyers could open camp a very different looking blue line than closed the playoffs. Gustafsson is already gone having signed in the KHL. Hal Gill is most likely retiring. Timonen is still an unknown. And then there is the Grossmann, Coburn, Schenn debate. Basically, the only givens are that Streit and MacDonald will be back.

Personally I think that Schenn is pretty safe. He is the kind of player that Hextall and Berube seem to favor. He keeps his mouth shut, he shows up and works. He is young and still learning his craft and has shown that his upside is pretty good. Oh, and he is a right handed shot.

That leaves Grossmann and Coburn. It is, IMHO, likely that one of these two will be gone. This is not that I want this to happen. It is that the fiscal reality and the overall team make up one of them will be gone. Coburn would command the greater return in a trade. Grossmann, while a great soldier and a quietly tough as nails player, has been exposed more and more this past season and playoffs. His slow feet really work against him. If the team is trying to improve overall team speed....there is your most likely first step.

Now...who are the likely candidates to fill the void. If you take what Hextall has said on face value the replacements are more likely to come from within. That means Laurissden, Alt, or Morin or Hagg. Laurissden has quicker feet than Grossmann but is still a live grenade at times handling the puck. He is such a physical presence that he gets away with it at times. Alt is a polished skater who is nearly as big as Coburn and also brings a right handed shot. Both have the advantage of a complete season under Terry Murray and his fanatical perfectionist methods. I would shy away from promoting Morin or Hagg to start the season because both need some time to just grow into the Pro game.

Just my thoughts .... all of this can change if Timonen officially retires. Or...officially resigns.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I never thought of Mark Alt as a potential guy for them until you mentioned him now - if he's anywhere close to what Braydon Coburn brings I'd give him a shot

 

[awaz]

i expect coburn, grossmann, schenn, macdonald, and streit to all return, and im kinda leaning that way on timonen too. i think he wants a shot at a cup and will sign with the flyers on the cheap to try to make the run happen.

 

[lasgop8]

i expect coburn, grossmann, schenn, macdonald, and streit to all return, and im kinda leaning that way on timonen too. i think he wants a shot at a cup and will sign with the flyers on the cheap to try to make the run happen.

Is Timmo a first pair dman anymore. If he signs on the cheap what will his role be?

 

[awaz]

Is Timmo a first pair dman anymore. If he signs on the cheap what will his role be?

i mean, if hes still better than 4 guys on the roster, then yes, he is a first pair guy (like he was this past season.

hes certainly not your ideal #1 guy, but the flyers are/will be, much better with him on the roster. it slides everyone down a peg.

1. timonen (a little below average for that spot)
2. coburn (average)
3. streit (average)
4. macdonald (good)
5. schenn (good-great)
6. grossmann (good)

instead of

1. coburn (well below average)
2. streit (below average)
3. macdonald (average)
4. schenn (average)
5. grossmann (average)
6. morin/hagg/gostisbehere/alt/lauridsen (likely not NHL ready)

 

[lasgop8]

i mean, if hes still better than 4 guys on the roster, then yes, he is a first pair guy (like he was this past season.

hes certainly not your ideal #1 guy, but the flyers are/will be, much better with him on the roster. it slides everyone down a peg.

1. timonen (a little below average for that spot)
2. coburn (average)
3. streit (average)
4. macdonald (good)
5. schenn (good-great)
6. grossmann (good)

instead of

1. coburn (well below average)
2. streit (below average)
3. macdonald (average)
4. schenn (average)
5. grossmann (average)
6. morin/hagg/gostisbehere/alt/lauridsen (likely not NHL ready)

Do we let Timmo walk and use his money to try to get a real number one?

 

[awaz]

Do we let Timmo walk and use his money to try to get a real number one?

well im thinking kimmo signs for like 2-3 mil. and im thinking the only "number 1" that's available through free agency is niskanen. who is actually a #3. and he's gunna get paid like 7 mil for 7 years.

and i just dont see an available #1 that would be worth it to try to trade for. theyre either not available, or they gut the team. it's stop gap d until you can draft a #1 IMO. if youre going with a stop-gap d, you gotta be deep, which is expensive cap-hit wise.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

Totally agree Awaz if Timonen stays for cheap the Flyers will be better for it. It still wouldn't shock me if one of the young guys makes the team in the 6 role and progresses as the season moves along. If Trouba can do this in Winnipeg this can happen in Philadelphia. I'm actually hoping for this as it would mean that one of those rookies has progressed to that point but I only want to see it if that player is actually ready like Couts was and not rushed in.

 

[awaz]

Totally agree Awaz if Timonen stays for cheap the Flyers will be better for it. It still wouldn't shock me if one of the young guys makes the team in the 6 role and progresses as the season moves along. If Trouba can do this in Winnipeg this can happen in Philadelphia. I'm actually hoping for this as it would mean that one of those rookies has progressed to that point but I only want to see it if that player is actually ready like Couts was and not rushed in.

oh absolutely, it can happen. trouba was the 9th overall pick though, and while morin was only a couple spots behind that, everything we hear about him is that hes a bit of a project and will need time. and that he was a bit of a reach at 11.

and i would love for one of the youngsters to prove they belong coming out of camp in the fall. i would like nothing more. but i dont think its realistic to plan on that. it will be a pleasant surprise if someone makes the cut, it shouldnt be a planned occurrence.

 

[JBM73]

Assuming either Timonen re-signs or the Flyers sign a pricey replacement, and thus no young puck-moving d-man makes the team, I can see them moving Grossmann and giving Lauridsen a shot at the job if they need to free up $$$. I can't see more than 1 young d-man cracking the top 6 to start next year, though.

 

[lasgop8]

well im thinking kimmo signs for like 2-3 mil. and im thinking the only "number 1" that's available through free agency is niskanen. who is actually a #3. and he's gunna get paid like 7 mil for 7 years.

and i just dont see an available #1 that would be worth it to try to trade for. theyre either not available, or they gut the team. it's stop gap d until you can draft a #1 IMO. if youre going with a stop-gap d, you gotta be deep, which is expensive cap-hit wise.

What do you think would happen if Kimmo retires ?

 

[awaz]

What do you think would happen if Kimmo retires ?

i bet the sign someone like mesz to a 2-3 year, 2-3 mil deal to play on the 3rd pairing. that's what i would do anyway. it's not perfect because your top pair is still less than ideal, but you account for that by having a better than average 3rd pair that can actually carry the load. IMO you either want:

1. a top pair that can play 28-30 minutes/night in big game situations, which is expensive and results in a bad 3rd pair that you have to try to hide from the other team's top 2 lines.

or

2. a balanced D where all 3 pairs are passable. you won't shut down the high flying lines of the league, but you won't have a pair that gets decimated playing against the top 2 lines of the other team.

team's that have both of those, have drafted extremely well the past few years. end of story.





plus then you have a cheaper salary that doesn't kill you as the 7th dman in case one of the younger guys is ready to go at some point next year.

 

[flyersfan4706]

I am a big fan of all three of Morin, Hagg, and Ghost, but none of them are on Trouba's level yet. He is a total beast and is going to be Winnipeg's #1 for a long time.

I don't want Kimmo back but I think he will be. If he is back the most I hope we do is sign a #6-7 defenseman who can be scratched if needed, like a Mike Kostka. If Kimmo is gone I'd be fine with signing Boyle or even Markov but that would have to be a one, maybe two, year deal. I can't see either of them settling for one year though.

I am ready to let the kids play. Alt and Ghost are likely the most NHL ready. If they are not on the big club next year then so be it, just please don't sign stop gaps long term that will prevent them from playing two years from now.

 

[Cobiemonster]

i bet the sign someone like mesz to a 2-3 year, 2-3 mil deal to play on the 3rd pairing. that's what i would do anyway. it's not perfect because your top pair is still less than ideal, but you account for that by having a better than average 3rd pair that can actually carry the load. IMO you either want:

1. a top pair that can play 28-30 minutes/night in big game situations, which is expensive and results in a bad 3rd pair that you have to try to hide from the other team's top 2 lines.

or

2. a balanced D where all 3 pairs are passable. you won't shut down the high flying lines of the league, but you won't have a pair that gets decimated playing against the top 2 lines of the other team.

team's that have both of those, have drafted extremely well the past few years. end of story.





plus then you have a cheaper salary that doesn't kill you as the 7th dman in case one of the younger guys is ready to go at some point next year.

Mesz isn't coming back, end of story

 

[wbon22]

The Sadomasochist in me would like to see Kimmo resign and the Berube dress 7 defense per game.
I still think that Grossman is getting slower and more vulnerable and one injury away from done.
Not a knock on him...just he takes so many knocks and has had so many leg/knee injuries.

Who make up the 7...???

 

[Cobiemonster]

The Sadomasochist in me would like to see Kimmo resign and the Berube dress 7 defense per game.
I still think that Grossman is getting slower and more vulnerable and one injury away from done.
Not a knock on him...just he takes so many knocks and has had so many leg/knee injuries.

Who make up the 7...???

I wanted 7 in the playoffs so that Gus could be in every night but I don't think it would happen now - although I would like to see that once in a while

 

[awaz]

Mesz isn't coming back, end of story

i bet the sign someone like mesz to a 2-3 year, 2-3 mil deal to play on the 3rd pairing. that's what i would do anyway. it's not perfect because your top pair is still less than ideal, but you account for that by having a better than average 3rd pair that can actually carry the load. IMO you either want:

1. a top pair that can play 28-30 minutes/night in big game situations, which is expensive and results in a bad 3rd pair that you have to try to hide from the other team's top 2 lines.

or

2. a balanced D where all 3 pairs are passable. you won't shut down the high flying lines of the league, but you won't have a pair that gets decimated playing against the top 2 lines of the other team.

team's that have both of those, have drafted extremely well the past few years. end of story.





plus then you have a cheaper salary that doesn't kill you as the 7th dman in case one of the younger guys is ready to go at some point next year.

"someone like mesz":

pitkanen (4.5 last contract, should come down significantly)
zidlicky (4 last contract, but he's 37, should come down significantly and could be a 1 year deal)
robidas (3.3 last contract, aging, could come down)
morris (2.75 last contract)
fayne (1.5 last contract)
klesla (2.95 last contract)
diaz (1.75 last contract)
stoner (1 mil last contract, might look for a longer deal)
mesz (4 mil last contract, value has gone way down, should come down significantly)

guys in the 2-3 mil range who won't be looking for a long term deal. someone who can be reliable in a 3rd pairing role. not relied on to go up against the best of the best, but relied up on to keep bottom 6 at bay with relative ease and maybe fill in on the top 4 in case of shorter term injury

 

[Progeriakid]

I still think if Kimmo retires Gost is his replacement, a fast puck moving Dman with a rifle shot, somehow someway he makes the roster I believe!

 

[lasgop8]

"someone like mesz":

pitkanen (4.5 last contract, should come down significantly)
zidlicky (4 last contract, but he's 37, should come down significantly and could be a 1 year deal)
robidas (3.3 last contract, aging, could come down)
morris (2.75 last contract)
fayne (1.5 last contract)
klesla (2.95 last contract)
diaz (1.75 last contract)
stoner (1 mil last contract, might look for a longer deal)
mesz (4 mil last contract, value has gone way down, should come down significantly)

guys in the 2-3 mil range who won't be looking for a long term deal. someone who can be reliable in a 3rd pairing role. not relied on to go up against the best of the best, but relied up on to keep bottom 6 at bay with relative ease and maybe fill in on the top 4 in case of shorter term injury

If that's Raphael Diaz I would like to have him he played pretty well in his short time with the Rags.

 

[awaz]

If that's Raphael Diaz I would like to have him he played pretty well in his short time with the Rags.

ya, that's Raphael diaz. I think he'd be a fine 3rd pair guy to add in to the mix