big boys

[cincygrad]

While the national dialogue is that the Bengals are cheap and that's why they aren't paying Bates, I think it is clear that this has more to do with Bates and his agents.... The Bengals have already committed to the franchise tag with Bates, which means they are slotting in 13.5 million with no wiggle room. If Bates and his representation were only looking for 15 million, he would be signed by now - That sort of deal would allow more flexibility with spreading the signing bonus over the length of the deal. I'm guessing you guys are right and his reps are looking for 18 million per..... This is too high a price for a guy that doesn't get many interceptions and isn't a very good tackler.

The other trick for Bates and his reps is that they could be searching for the cap. Once a player is "capped" it counts.... Meaning, the next time a team wants to use the cap on them, they would have to pay a ridiculous fee. If you know the Bengals are using the cap, you could force their hand to use it, renegotiate the deal before the deadline and then have your player under no-threat of a cap in the future. If Bates is only looking for a 4 year deal, he still could be in his prime the next time he moves toward FA.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

While the national dialogue is that the Bengals are cheap and that's why they aren't paying Bates, I think it is clear that this has more to do with Bates and his agents.... The Bengals have already committed to the franchise tag with Bates, which means they are slotting in 13.5 million with no wiggle room. If Bates and his representation were only looking for 15 million, he would be signed by now - That sort of deal would allow more flexibility with spreading the signing bonus over the length of the deal. I'm guessing you guys are right and his reps are looking for 18 million per..... This is too high a price for a guy that doesn't get many interceptions and isn't a very good tackler.

The other trick for Bates and his reps is that they could be searching for the cap. Once a player is "capped" it counts.... Meaning, the next time a team wants to use the cap on them, they would have to pay a ridiculous fee. If you know the Bengals are using the cap, you could force their hand to use it, renegotiate the deal before the deadline and then have your player under no-threat of a cap in the future. If Bates is only looking for a 4 year deal, he still could be in his prime the next time he moves toward FA.

Only thing I disagree with here that you mentioned is that Bates is not a very good tackler. Prior to last season, Bates was an automatic tackle. Guys never broke his tackles, once he got his hands on you that was it. He struggled a little last year, but maybe trying to play strong while not getting hurt so he would lay up on some hits to avoid injury. I don't know why his overall production in tackling efficiency dropped off last year, verus the previous 3, but he was a tackling machine in those three years. Only guy the team could count on to consistently make the tackle when in position.

 

[cincygrad]

Bates is tagged..... Ultimately this was a bad move for him and his representation if the Bengals were offering anything resembling a fair deal last summer. Let's imagine the Bengals were offering 12 million per year last summer on a four year deal. He played last year for 2.4 million - So, he left almost 10 million on the table. He'll play for 13 million next season which would be lower his net loss to 9 million. Even if he were to sign for 18 per year after 2022, he'd only gain 2 million over the same span than he would have if he would have signed last summer.... And he would have basically insured himself against injury and set himself up for another FA signing in 2025.

I'm making the assumption that the Bengals were offering at least 12 million per year last summer. But that seems like a reasonable deal given the circumstances and I would be surprised if they weren't offering that at the very least.

 

[cincygrad]

Only thing I disagree with here that you mentioned is that Bates is not a very good tackler. Prior to last season, Bates was an automatic tackle. Guys never broke his tackles, once he got his hands on you that was it. He struggled a little last year, but maybe trying to play strong while not getting hurt so he would lay up on some hits to avoid injury. I don't know why his overall production in tackling efficiency dropped off last year, verus the previous 3, but he was a tackling machine in those three years. Only guy the team could count on to consistently make the tackle when in position.

That may be true.... Those defenses were terrible though and I can't really recall much standing out. I do think he missed some bad tackles this past season. And I think he was schooled on an important third down in the super bowl. Now, it was Cooper Kupp, and he schools everyone, but Bates wants top safety in the league money.... He needs to be that guy.

He did make a hell of a play in KC in overtime. That alone makes me want him to stay. But his season was really mixed and I'd be interested to know if anyone would really step up to pay him north of 16 million.