big boys

[jbuck]

11 offensive linemen the Bengals should target in free agency to help Joe Burrow

The Bengals need to spend big again -- this time to help Joe Burrow stay upright.

www.yahoo.com

a few choices to consider

 

[Janus]

11 offensive linemen the Bengals should target in free agency to help Joe Burrow

The Bengals need to spend big again -- this time to help Joe Burrow stay upright.

www.yahoo.com

a few choices to consider

How about teaching Burrow to run faster, saves a pick or 2

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Armstead is going to be too expensive ($20 million a year) and plays on the line where our only decent player plays, Williams. I can't see him at his price tag and position. However, there are several really good options there that would probably even be under $10 million a season each.

G James Daniel (24) - Maybe $12.5 million a year
C Ryan Jensen (31) - Maybe $10 million
G Austin Corbett (26) - Maybe $9 million

Draft RT #31 to compete with Carmen.

They are estimating Bates contract will be worth 4 years / $70 million. Yikes.

I would like to see us resign Ogunjobi also. Really like what he did this year.

Release Waynes ($13 mill), Hopkins ($7.5 mill) , let Reiff ($10 mill) walk. The frees up $30 million and almost a wash for those 3 offensive lineman. Then you just have to deal with Bates contract and Ogunjobi.

We are also getting ready to start coming up on Logan Wilson, Jonah Williams, Tee Higgins, Germaine Pratt.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Armstead is going to be too expensive ($20 million a year) and plays on the line where our only decent player plays, Williams. I can't see him at his price tag and position. However, there are several really good options there that would probably even be under $10 million a season each.

G James Daniel (24) - Maybe $12.5 million a year
C Ryan Jensen (31) - Maybe $10 million
G Austin Corbett (26) - Maybe $9 million

Draft RT #31 to compete with Carmen.

They are estimating Bates contract will be worth 4 years / $70 million. Yikes.

I would like to see us resign Ogunjobi also. Really like what he did this year.

Release Waynes ($13 mill), Hopkins ($7.5 mill) , let Reiff ($10 mill) walk. The frees up $30 million and almost a wash for those 3 offensive lineman. Then you just have to deal with Bates contract and Ogunjobi.

We are also getting ready to start coming up on Logan Wilson, Jonah Williams, Tee Higgins, Germaine Pratt.

Also need to replace Apple - which I'm good with. I think he had a bit of a career year, and wouldn't like to see him re-signed. Maybe they draft a DB #2, it's a pretty deep class. Could probably land a good guy in the back-half of round 2.

Agreed/Ogunjobi or Hill have to be re-signed. Likely can't get both - but also could use another run-stopping DT for early downs/short yardage. I know Shelvin was drafted last year, but despite his size, he got pushed around a bit - and it would be good to ensure there is some depth there.

 

[jbuck]

we seem to strike out on early CBs in the draft...heh, I guess in FA also

 

[jbuck]

How about teaching Burrow to run faster, saves a pick or 2

nice PO run bubba

 

[cincygrad]

If you decide to go in a different direction from Spain (a UFA) and Hopkins (might be past his good years and has a big cap hit), you would need to sign three guys on the interior.... And you would still need to be drafting or signing lower end guys for depth. And you would still need to worry about RT.

The situation is going to demand some creativity. I think they should look to get two OL slots locked up with multi-year deals given to proven vets - Maybe not the biggest ticket guys but guys that far outpace what we have here and are still improving (some of the guys on this list). Then they need to look to get two guys on one-year, prove it type deals or "I'm at the year-to-year" part of my career (the type signed by Oganjobi and Riley Rief last season).

You probably need to draft at least two guys in the first 5 rounds and then you need to start assessing whether Carman or Smith can be the long term solution at one of your positions after 2022 or can offer depth immediately.

The good news is that the Bengals have money. And there are options on the market. The bad news is that this isn't a one or two player fix. That line was decimated at the end of the year and needs an overhaul.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If you decide to go in a different direction from Spain (a UFA) and Hopkins (might be past his good years and has a big cap hit), you would need to sign three guys on the interior.... And you would still need to be drafting or signing lower end guys for depth. And you would still need to worry about RT.

The situation is going to demand some creativity. I think they should look to get two OL slots locked up with multi-year deals given to proven vets - Maybe not the biggest ticket guys but guys that far outpace what we have here and are still improving (some of the guys on this list). Then they need to look to get two guys on one-year, prove it type deals or "I'm at the year-to-year" part of my career (the type signed by Oganjobi and Riley Rief last season).

You probably need to draft at least two guys in the first 5 rounds and then you need to start assessing whether Carman or Smith can be the long term solution at one of your positions after 2022 or can offer depth immediately.

The good news is that the Bengals have money. And there are options on the market. The bad news is that this isn't a one or two player fix. That line was decimated at the end of the year and needs an overhaul.

And to your point, they may not be willing to do t he whole thing in one year, especially through FA. It will be a building process over the next couple years potentially. 1 or two guys this year, maybe another 1 to 2 next year. We have a lot of good players coming up in the next couple years that I am sure this organization will want to keep.

 

[cincygrad]

And to your point, they may not be willing to do t he whole thing in one year, especially through FA. It will be a building process over the next couple years potentially. 1 or two guys this year, maybe another 1 to 2 next year. We have a lot of good players coming up in the next couple years that I am sure this organization will want to keep.

Meh.... Want to do it or not, I think they have to try. At this point, this is what you have for offensive linemen under contract:

Williams - Good to go. Solid LT. Not a top 10 guy but improving.
Hopkins - Probably should be cut and the money spent in another place.
Carmen - Is he a tackle or a guard? Seems to have conditioning issues, injury issues, and effort issues. Anyone really counting on this guy as a 16 game starter?
Smith - Developmental project. Could be a starter. Where?
Trey Hill - Not ready to be the starting center.
Prince - Better as the third tackle. Okay for depth
Adeniji - I think you have to move on from the Adeniji at guard experiment.

So, really you have one starter going into next year. I'll assume you can have 1 out of 5 positions manned by a rookie or developmental project. So, you really need 3 free agents just to give yourself a shot. We'll see.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Meh.... Want to do it or not, I think they have to try. At this point, this is what you have for offensive linemen under contract:

Williams - Good to go. Solid LT. Not a top 10 guy but improving.
Hopkins - Probably should be cut and the money spent in another place.
Carmen - Is he a tackle or a guard? Seems to have conditioning issues, injury issues, and effort issues. Anyone really counting on this guy as a 16 game starter?
Smith - Developmental project. Could be a starter. Where?
Trey Hill - Not ready to be the starting center.
Prince - Better as the third tackle. Okay for depth
Adeniji - I think you have to move on from the Adeniji at guard experiment.

So, really you have one starter going into next year. I'll assume you can have 1 out of 5 positions manned by a rookie or developmental project. So, you really need 3 free agents just to give yourself a shot. We'll see.

I know what you are saying. However, they may be only willing to invest in 2 FA's at that position group in a single season and draft a couple more guys to hope they get something. If none of the young guys are developing over this year, then they may be willing to go get another 1 or 2 guys in FA the following year. I am sure they are hoping to not build the entire offensive line through FA, and hoping they can do a better job drafting/developing to keep the cost of that group down a bit.

All I am saying is two may be the limit this year in FA.

From Taylor. You tell me if this sounds like 3 to 4 new guys in FA on the oline.....

_ On Burrow getting sacked 70 times between the regular season and postseason: "We just have to be better as a unit … I think that we'll just look to improve the team any way that we can and not specific to one necessary group. The offensive line helped us get to the Super Bowl. They gave us opportunities to go win the Super Bowl. Everything always falls on them statistically, but that's not always the case. There are play calls that could be better to help put them in a better position. There is a lot that plays into all that. They were an offensive line that helped us get to the Super Bowl and gave us opportunities to win and I think they should be commended for that."

 

[cincygrad]

I know what you are saying. However, they may be only willing to invest in 2 FA's at that position group in a single season and draft a couple more guys to hope they get something. If none of the young guys are developing over this year, then they may be willing to go get another 1 or 2 guys in FA the following year. I am sure they are hoping to not build the entire offensive line through FA, and hoping they can do a better job drafting/developing to keep the cost of that group down a bit.

All I am saying is two may be the limit this year in FA.

From Taylor. You tell me if this sounds like 3 to 4 new guys in FA on the oline.....

_ On Burrow getting sacked 70 times between the regular season and postseason: "We just have to be better as a unit … I think that we'll just look to improve the team any way that we can and not specific to one necessary group. The offensive line helped us get to the Super Bowl. They gave us opportunities to go win the Super Bowl. Everything always falls on them statistically, but that's not always the case. There are play calls that could be better to help put them in a better position. There is a lot that plays into all that. They were an offensive line that helped us get to the Super Bowl and gave us opportunities to win and I think they should be commended for that."

I'm not worried about what Taylor says here.... He's not going to throw guys under the bus three days after losing a super bowl. It's not the type of guy he is. I think if microphones weren't on and he was being honest he would express frustration at the state of that unit. He's not just the coach - he's the playcaller.... He, more than anyone knows what he would have if he had better protection.

 

[Cincyfan78]

And the whole thing of not building it all in 1 year is exactly why I am so frustrated. Year 1 - sign a good OL. Year 2 sign a good OL. Year 3 is this F/A class. Because they've kicked the can down the road each year...this is where they are.

This offense is ready to win NOW. The defense is ready to win NOW. They've passed up their chance to build the OL over a few more seasons...they need an OL that helps them win NOW.

Like it or not, this is exactly the corner that this franchise has painted themselves into. They need no less than 2 upper tier OL. LG or RG, and Center. Figure out what they need to do with Carmen, and Smith, and you can still sign 1 or 2 middle tier guys as backups to help ensure there is some competition and depth. You can also still draft an OT in round 1 and/or in any other rounds with this to add even more depth and assurance that the OL is getting fixed this year.

The build over time thing went out the window when they refused to address that approach the past 2 seasons when knowing they had a (potential at the time) Franchise QB being drafted #1 overall.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

And the whole thing of not building it all in 1 year is exactly why I am so frustrated. Year 1 - sign a good OL. Year 2 sign a good OL. Year 3 is this F/A class. Because they've kicked the can down the road each year...this is where they are.

This offense is ready to win NOW. The defense is ready to win NOW. They've passed up their chance to build the OL over a few more seasons...they need an OL that helps them win NOW.

Like it or not, this is exactly the corner that this franchise has painted themselves into. They need no less than 2 upper tier OL. LG or RG, and Center. Figure out what they need to do with Carmen, and Smith, and you can still sign 1 or 2 middle tier guys as backups to help ensure there is some competition and depth. You can also still draft an OT in round 1 and/or in any other rounds with this to add even more depth and assurance that the OL is getting fixed this year.

The build over time thing went out the window when they refused to address that approach the past 2 seasons when knowing they had a (potential at the time) Franchise QB being drafted #1 overall.

4 years ago: C Billy Price 1st round pick
3 years ago: LT Jonah Williams 1st round pick
2 years ago: FA Quinton Spain / FA Sua-Filo
This year: FA Riley Reiff, 2nd round Jackson Carmen

It isn't like they were not trying to a degree. I say to a degree because they have done a poor job evaluating overall offensive talent.

They have also drafted 6 offensive lineman in the last 3 years, 8 over the last 4. They are averaging drafting two offensive lineman a year over the last 4 years.

I mean, there is work being done there, but they are failing with their selections too often. That needs corrected, and to start hitting on that unit like they are others.

 

[cincygrad]

4 years ago: C Billy Price 1st round pick
3 years ago: LT Jonah Williams 1st round pick
2 years ago: FA Quinton Spain / FA Sua-Filo
This year: FA Riley Reiff, 2nd round Jackson Carmen

It isn't like they were not trying to a degree. I say to a degree because they have done a poor job evaluating overall offensive talent.

They have also drafted 6 offensive lineman in the last 3 years, 8 over the last 4. They are averaging drafting two offensive lineman a year over the last 4 years.

I mean, there is work being done there, but they are failing with their selections too often. That needs corrected, and to start hitting on that unit like they are others.

You forgot to mention the Bobby Hart signing.... And the Bobby Hart re-signing. Some good effort there.

Spain was an in-season pick up necessitated by injury. He was cut from Buffalo after being badly outplayed by cheaper talent. Sua-Filo was seen by many outsiders as a depth-type of pick up.

The only FA they have signed along the line that was a quality starter was Riley Rieff.

 

[Cincyfan78]

4 years ago: C Billy Price 1st round pick
3 years ago: LT Jonah Williams 1st round pick
2 years ago: FA Quinton Spain / FA Sua-Filo
This year: FA Riley Reiff, 2nd round Jackson Carmen

It isn't like they were not trying to a degree. I say to a degree because they have done a poor job evaluating overall offensive talent.

They have also drafted 6 offensive lineman in the last 3 years, 8 over the last 4. They are averaging drafting two offensive lineman a year over the last 4 years.

I mean, there is work being done there, but they are failing with their selections too often. That needs corrected, and to start hitting on that unit like they are others.

Look, I'm not saying they haven't tried in the draft. Busts happen, and unfortunately, they've happened a lot at the OL position for the Bengals.

Where I get frustrated is that instead of accepting these guys are bad, and getting good OL in replacement in F/A - they try the band-aid route with basement bargain guys. Spain, via trade, was a bargain basement guy. His numbers were not good in Buff other than 1 year, and he wasn't great here when he arrived. He wasn't good this year. Su'a wasn't great at his last stop. Hopkins was coming off an ACL - and no one thought to have a viable replacement ready in case he struggled, or that the 1 year was an fluke. They drafted a guy they intended to move positions and never though he might struggle...

The took the band-aid approach to the OL knowing they had a Franchise QB they needed to protect. Instead, he got his knee ripped. After that, they made 1 signing on a player who had a good career in Reiff. That was it. The rest of the line pretty much stayed intact - and Burrow came back only to get sacked 70 times in the season/playoffs.

Larger point - if you draft a guy and expect him to be an above average starter (especially early round guys) and they don't turn out to be what you though, you can't replace them with bargain basement signings and then be shocked when they don't perform well. You can't miss on the high draft picks that would be above average if they pan out, whiff on those picks, and replace them with below average talent and expect good results. When you whiff on a high draft pick, to replace that guy comes with a cost - a cost the Bengals refuse to pay, or maybe to this point, haven't acknowledge they need to pay in order to make up for their miss. Whiffing on draft picks come with a price that is more than just not hitting on that guy, but having to actually pay someone to replace that guy.

 

[cincygrad]

One thing I will say on the organization's behalf..... I don't think they dreamed they would play 3 playoff games and a superbowl this season. That was 4 weeks against really good teams that could expose your weaknesses. I think they focused on the D last offseason and hoped that Pollack would rebuild a servicable line.

But the standard has changed. Like KC last year, they were a bad offensive line away from winning a championship. What did the Chiefs do when they found themselves in that situation? They fixed the line. You can argue that it didn't work because they didn't make it back, but that wasn't because they didn't have a line to do it.... That same line was rushing at 7 yards a clip and giving Mahomes all day to throw in the AFC-C...... Some combination of weapons and coaching did them in that day.

 

[alf8478]

I know what you are saying. However, they may be only willing to invest in 2 FA's at that position group in a single season and draft a couple more guys to hope they get something. If none of the young guys are developing over this year, then they may be willing to go get another 1 or 2 guys in FA the following year. I am sure they are hoping to not build the entire offensive line through FA, and hoping they can do a better job drafting/developing to keep the cost of that group down a bit.

All I am saying is two may be the limit this year in FA.

From Taylor. You tell me if this sounds like 3 to 4 new guys in FA on the oline.....

_ On Burrow getting sacked 70 times between the regular season and postseason: "We just have to be better as a unit … I think that we'll just look to improve the team any way that we can and not specific to one necessary group. The offensive line helped us get to the Super Bowl. They gave us opportunities to go win the Super Bowl. Everything always falls on them statistically, but that's not always the case. There are play calls that could be better to help put them in a better position. There is a lot that plays into all that. They were an offensive line that helped us get to the Super Bowl and gave us opportunities to win and I think they should be commended for that."

Hopefully the first thing they do at minicamp, OTAs and training camp is learn how to block when the other team runs a stunt against them.

 

[cincygrad]

Hopefully the first thing they do at minicamp, OTAs and training camp is learn how to block when the other team runs a stunt against them.

That was sort of the most concerning aspect of the offensive line coaching..... Here we have a guy known as a good line coach with a couple of good offensive coaches and a smart QB..... But damn these guys were easy to run stunts on.

 

[Janus]

That was sort of the most concerning aspect of the offensive line coaching..... Here we have a guy known as a good line coach with a couple of good offensive coaches and a smart QB..... But damn these guys were easy to run stunts on.

QB needs to be able to recognize defenses too. I love Burrow as a QB but he's young and recognizing defenses and a time to tuck it and a time to run will come, his first big game. I wouldn't blame it all on the o line

 

[jbuck]

wow a racist has sullied our board. How's stump doing you ignorant fuck?