Best thing about the win Monday Night, and the worst thing.

[Broncosballer32]

The best thing that we should all take away is the fact they were so balanced. 37 pass attempts and 35 rush attempts.

That, believe it or not, is going to be rather crucial.

People can say it is a passing league (and it is) but the best BALANCED teams are usually the ones that win it all.

I mentioned the stat a few weeks ago about QBs that pass for 4000 yards and 30 TDs in the same season, rarely win it all. This actually dates back to air Coryell and Marino days. There has been 3 times when a QB had those stats that won it all. 1999 with Warner (ironically they had to win a defensive battle in the NFCC game), but they certainly had balance with Marshall Faulk.

The next year was 2006 with Manning. They also had to win a defensive battle in the play offs against the Ravens where they won 15-6. Did not hurt that they faced Rex Grossman in the SB either. Lets face it.

The last season a QB passed for 4000yds and 30TDs was 2009 with the Saints. Of course when you look at that SB, the Colts had the 32nd ranked rushing offense. The Saints were ranked 6th that year. You think there was a reason why the Saints ran that 3-3-5 defense? If you are decent at math, that is 6 men in the box. A team with any sort of running game what so ever, would steam roll that alignment. Eventually, that defense jumped a route and a the rest is history.

I do not think this is lost on Manning either. I like the platoon system. Ball (except for the fumbling) looked like he was running hard the other night. That was the worst thing btw. The fumbling by Ball.

Anyway, it is fun to watch this type of offense. It certainly entertains. Eventually, they will face a defense that will either confuse the passing game or Manning will not be completing EVERYTHING. That is what happens. It happens every time. So, it will be imperative that the Broncos establish a strong balance.


*BTW, Brady never passed for 4000 yards or 30 TDs in any of the seasons they actually won it all. The last time they did win it all, they had a 1600 yard rusher.*

 

[grim rpr]

Hey bro good stats and thanks for the info... This year MUST be different because Manning will go for both Yards and TD's this season, we will have our main defense back soon and play a pretty relaxed schedule... Manning is intense and I believe that he will NOT allow 2012 to turn into 2013 playoffs again. The team is so much more intense and our new safety and DRC and the renewed running attack as well as one of the leagues top 5 TE's is all a new story this year so be prepared for greatness this season

I thing MANNING has already secured MVP as long as we continue winning and he does good, not even great the rest of the year, but in my heart he will continue to do GREAT and probably break some Brady records... the only thing going against him is that we have such a lead going into the 4th that we run the ball a ton and leave a ton of passing yards and probably TD's out there. ESPN last night said that he could easily have 300 more yards this season and 2 more TD's or so except in garbage time he shuts the engine down and run run run... What do you all feel !!

 

[Morpheus]

The best thing that we should all take away is the fact they were so balanced. 37 pass attempts and 35 rush attempts.

That, believe it or not, is going to be rather crucial.

People can say it is a passing league (and it is) but the best BALANCED teams are usually the ones that win it all.

I mentioned the stat a few weeks ago about QBs that pass for 4000 yards and 30 TDs in the same season, rarely win it all. This actually dates back to air Coryell and Marino days. There has been 3 times when a QB had those stats that won it all. 1999 with Warner (ironically they had to win a defensive battle in the NFCC game), but they certainly had balance with Marshall Faulk.

The next year was 2006 with Manning. They also had to win a defensive battle in the play offs against the Ravens where they won 15-6. Did not hurt that they faced Rex Grossman in the SB either. Lets face it.

The last season a QB passed for 4000yds and 30TDs was 2009 with the Saints. Of course when you look at that SB, the Colts had the 32nd ranked rushing offense. The Saints were ranked 6th that year. You think there was a reason why the Saints ran that 3-3-5 defense? If you are decent at math, that is 6 men in the box. A team with any sort of running game what so ever, would steam roll that alignment. Eventually, that defense jumped a route and a the rest is history.

I do not think this is lost on Manning either. I like the platoon system. Ball (except for the fumbling) looked like he was running hard the other night. That was the worst thing btw. The fumbling by Ball.

Anyway, it is fun to watch this type of offense. It certainly entertains. Eventually, they will face a defense that will either confuse the passing game or Manning will not be completing EVERYTHING. That is what happens. It happens every time. So, it will be imperative that the Broncos establish a strong balance.


*BTW, Brady never passed for 4000 yards or 30 TDs in any of the seasons they actually won it all. The last time they did win it all, they had a 1600 yard rusher.*

With a team that has this many offensive weapons and this good of a defense, you have to look at the details a little closer.

Manning never had a defense as good as the Broncos were last year or are shaping up to be this year in Indy. They had to outscore opponents and establishing the running game served to help set up play action, control TOP and kill the clock in games where they led.

To an extent, the Broncos are able to accomplish the same thing with the short passing game. Convert on 3rd down and keep the defense guessing in whether you will run or pass in short yardage situations.

Sure you have to have the threat of a good running game and having 3 guys in the backfield who can get it done one way or another (running or receiving) helps keep your RB's from wearing down and getting injured or exhausted.

I don't think you have to look at the number of passing plays vs running plays and look for a balanced number as much as you have to run or pass in the right situation and do it successfully when you need to.

Look at the Ravens game? Friggin blowout and we passed more than ran.

We need to run the ball successfully when the situation dictates it, not run more just to keep it balanced.

You have to look at the reasons for the stats, not just stats.

Example: Tyrell Pryor had a great passing day if you look at the stats. So did Eli Manning week 2. But they were forced to air it out when they got behind and had to abandon the run. Hence the inflated passing numbers.

If you can successfully throw the ball to move the chains and score in the redzone, why would you intentionally run it if you did not have to or if your opponent was good against the run or expecting you to?

This team has more options in the redzone in the passing game than they do in the running game. Look at Deckers TD against he Raiders. That was a called run play and Manning audibles to Decker and BOOM. 6 points!

So to sum up, run when the situation calls for it, but the ball moves faster through the air than on the ground.

Unless Trindon Holliday is running it.

That dude has some wheels!

 

[cdumler7]

BroncosBaller I definitely understand your point about balance. It seems like the Broncos after the first game of the season have tried to get a little more balanced than they were against Baltimore. Ball looks like every game he is getting better at being able to keep up with the pace of the NFL and finally start seeing some of those cut back lanes that he was missing in Preseason and game 1 of the season. This right here will be huge come later in the season when teams go all out to try and stop the pass and leave the run lanes wide open and dare the Broncos to beat them with the run game. If Ball can learn to hold onto the ball he could actually have a decent year as we keep going.

I do however think the short passing game the Broncos have going should be thought of almost like an extended run play. They have had a few really short passes in every game this year turn into huge plays because of all the weapons they have and their ability with the ball after the catch. One pass that sticks out is the Julius Thomas TD on Monday night where they tried to cover him with a Linebacker who had to try and run all the way to the sideline from the middle of the field and in all honesty it was just unfair in that situation. Manning saw it and knew from the second the ball was snapped where he was going with the football. It was maybe a 2-3 yard pass down the field but ended in a touchdown. There are not many teams in the league that have as many weapons as the Broncos do to be able to do these kind of things.

 

[Broncos6482]

I do however think the short passing game the Broncos have going should be thought of almost like an extended run play. They have had a few really short passes in every game this year turn into huge plays because of all the weapons they have and their ability with the ball after the catch.

Exactly. I don't care if the Broncos pass it 50 times a game and run it only 10 as long as the offense is effective. Basically all I want from the running game is for it to be good enough for play action to be effective, and to pick up the occasional 3rd and 1 type of short yardage play. That's it. Anything more than that is just gravy in my opinion.

I was very impressed with Ball on Monday, he looked great and he had a couple of really nice runs, one on a 3rd and short where it looked like he was going to be stopped short but he kept churning his legs and picked up the first down. Now make that guy carry a football around Dove Valley all week because if he can get the fumbling issue fixed I think Denver has found their short yardage back.

 

[Broncos6482]

By the way, I know Flacco didn't throw for 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns last season, but the reason the Ravens won it all is because during the playoffs he somehow morphed from an average qb to an elite qb that threw for over 1,100 yards, 11 touchdowns and no picks in 4 games. That is pacing to be 4,400 yards and 44 touchdowns. In other words he played like a 4,000 yard, 30 touchdown passer in the playoffs. I'm not sure how he morphed from Average Joe to Elite QB Joe, but he did and that's why the Ravens are the defending champs.

 

[cdumler7]

By the way, I know Flacco didn't throw for 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns last season, but the reason the Ravens won it all is because during the playoffs he somehow morphed from an average qb to an elite qb that threw for over 1,100 yards, 11 touchdowns and no picks in 4 games. That is pacing to be 4,400 yards and 44 touchdowns. In other words he played like a 4,000 yard, 30 touchdown passer in the playoffs. I'm not sure how he morphed from Average Joe to Elite QB Joe, but he did and that's why the Ravens are the defending champs.

I would say the Ravens switching up the OL to provide superior blocking definitely helped. They went against some of the best pass rushers in the NFL and just completely shut them down. Having that much time and that great of a pocket would make any quarterback in the NFL look great. Throw in his receivers made some ridiculous catches like Boldin jumping over the top of Champ for the touchdown. He threw up quite a few 50/50 balls and somehow in those situations they turned into 100/0 balls in his favor. His struggles this year are not surprising to me so far considering two of his main weapons being gone that could win those battles. He just doesn't have the weapons around him to make his style of play successful this year on a consistent basis. Thankfully for him it looks like the defense is better this year which should help keep games at least close and give them a chance to win some games and possibly win the division again. Against better teams though like we saw week one with the Broncos the offense just doesn't have the ability to keep up. Kind of reminds me when the Broncos had Tim Tebow of he was good in those games the defense could keep it close but against the better teams it was almost guaranteed to be a blow out because Tebow just couldn't do enough consistently to keep the games close and actually win it on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[MrDoc420]

I would say the Ravens switching up the OL to provide superior blocking definitely helped. They went against some of the best pass rushers in the NFL and just completely shut them down. Having that much time and that great of a pocket would make any quarterback in the NFL look great. Throw in his receivers made some ridiculous catches like Boldin jumping over the top of Champ for the touchdown. He threw up quite a few 50/50 balls and somehow in those situations they turned into 100/0 balls in his favor. His struggles this year are not surprising to me so far considering two of his main weapons being gone that could win those battles. He just doesn't have the weapons around him to make his style of play successful this year on a consistent basis. Thankfully for him it looks like the defense is better this year which should help keep games at least close and give them a chance to win some games and possibly win the division again. Against better teams though like we saw week one with the Broncos the offense just doesn't have the ability to keep up. Kind of reminds me when the Broncos had Tim Tebow of he was good in those games the defense could keep it close but against the better teams it was almost guaranteed to be a blow out because Tebow just couldn't do enough consistently to keep the games close and actually win it on the offensive side of the ball.

Well said cd.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Exactly. I don't care if the Broncos pass it 50 times a game and run it only 10 as long as the offense is effective. Basically all I want from the running game is for it to be good enough for play action to be effective, and to pick up the occasional 3rd and 1 type of short yardage play. That's it. Anything more than that is just gravy in my opinion.

I was very impressed with Ball on Monday, he looked great and he had a couple of really nice runs, one on a 3rd and short where it looked like he was going to be stopped short but he kept churning his legs and picked up the first down. Now make that guy carry a football around Dove Valley all week because if he can get the fumbling issue fixed I think Denver has found their short yardage back.

More often than not, the more balanced team wins it. It is has been that way all through history. Even the years when a team won it all when the QB passed for 4000 yards and 30 TDs, they were the more balanced team.

The 1999 Rams were more balanced with the Titans. Not by much and they had to really pull out a victory in that game. Remember? Not to mention they had a real defensive battle in the NFCCG. Which means that year a defense did figure it out and they certainly caused problems for the greatest show on turf.

The 2006 Colts team (Another 4000 yard 30 TD year) the Colts had to pull out a real defensive game agaisnt the Ravens. The Colts won the divisional 15-6 where Manning had 3 ints. The Colts greatly out rushed the Bears, and really Rhodes could have been named MVP in that game.

The 2009 Saints (the only other year a 4000 yard 30 TD year) the Saints were ranked 6th that year in rushing. The Colts that year, ranked 32nd. The ONLY reason the Saints planned on a 3-3-5 alignment is because of that fact.

The most prolific passing seasons in history all ended up with losses in the play offs and/or SB.

Here are the best seasons yards wise in history.

NFL Single-Season Passing Yards Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com


Anyway, it is fun to watch. It is really dynamic. However, if they want to truly be a SB winning contender they will need to establish balance imo.

 

[JDM]

Balance on offense is about the ability to do everything, not necessarily actually doing it. If yiu are able to take advantage of everything defenses will give you, it forces the defense to respect it all. If teams give you more pass-friendly looks, you can throw more and still have a balanced offense.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Balance on offense is about the ability to do everything, not necessarily actually doing it. If yiu are able to take advantage of everything defenses will give you, it forces the defense to respect it all. If teams give you more pass-friendly looks, you can throw more and still have a balanced offense.

Well, not really. Take a teams strength away and get that team out of their "comfort zone" and advantage to the team that is shutting it down.

The fact of the matter is the last time the Pats won it (contrary to what an ignorant idiot like Cowherd says) they had a 1600 yard rusher. Brady never passed for 4000 yards nor 30 TDs in any of the seasons they actually won it.

I liken the teams over the years with these pass happy offenses as great college basketball teams that have great 3 point shooting and no game down low. They usually run into a situation when the quality of defenses get better, that are able to take away your strength.

Once that happens, you will need to have another away to go. If you do not, then a loss usually happens.

I challenge you to look at all of those QBs on that list that have had all of those yards in a season. It is fun to watch teams produce like that for our FF teams, and they go up and down on teams of lesser talent. It is real fun to watch.

Often times those teams get a bit cocky. Like when Brady rolled his eyes and laughed at the notion that the Giants would keep them from scoring over 20 points.

Plus, I have not really mentioned quality of defenses. That is another story all together. I say the best defenses are the ones that are able to generate adequate pass rush with FOUR RUSHERS. That, is what these "pass happy teams" will eventually face at some point. Often times in the play offs.

Once a team is able to apply that kind of pressure with only FOUR RUSHERS, the passing tends to suffer. ONE key way a team can generate a consistent pass rush with FOUR RUSHERS is they do not respect play action. If the FOUR RUSHERS do not respect it cause the team they are playing are not running well, and certainly not committed to balance, well they are not being slowed down.

It becomes a systematic problem, and the BEST CHANCE a team has to win, is committed balance. You can only be truly committed to balance if the team is doing BOTH WELL.

There are reasons why QBs like Eli Manning or Roth, or Flacco for that matter have won it all. Personally, I do not see any of them as real great QBs that put up outlandish numbers. Yes, Manning had a 4000 yard season when they won it that year, but they certainly did not put up a bunch of points when they did. In either of them, and they certainly never relied on the blitz to generate pass rush. FOUR RUSHERS were all they truly needed to create problems. Brady's kryptonite. Of course that is far easier to search for that than find that kind of pass rush.

 

[Morpheus]

This team may be setting the mark for a new way to do it.

Before Osweiler came in, we had 23 running plays by Moreno and Hillman, 34 passing plays by Manning.

When Osweiler came in he went 2-3 then handed the ball off to Montee Ball 8 times to kill the clock.

I am telling you the balance is not as important as having success at what you are trying to execute.

The important thing is they are moving the ball, whether it is on the ground or in the air.

Complete and utter domination in the passing game. We were running the ball to set up the passing game, Moreno averaged over 6 YPC, so we ran the ball effectively when we had to, mostly on 1st and 2nd down. The Eagles made the mistake of going to man coverage and trying to put 7 in the box to stop the run and Manning lit them up.

Did you see that deep pass on 1st down to Decker that was just a tad overthrown? Manning saw teh man coverage on the outside and attacked.


I am loving what I am seeing.

 

[iknowftbll]

The Broncos ran a total of 33 rushing plays for a net of 141 rushing yards. That's an average of a little over 4.2 yards per rush. It's not spectacular, but it is hard to be a top rushing and passing team at the same time. I think the takeaway should be the Broncos run game is definitely capable of making this offense a duel threat offense. Moreno has broken a few big runs now, and even Hillman is getting to the edge of the line and turning it upfield for some gains. Ball didn't fumble today, so that's nice. This is not going to be a #1 rushing offense. But they've added a lot of rushing yards in the past two weeks, enough that I am confident this offense can count on them when they need to.

 

[Morpheus]

The Broncos ran a total of 33 rushing plays for a net of 141 rushing yards. That's an average of a little over 4.2 yards per rush. It's not spectacular, but it is hard to be a top rushing and passing team at the same time. I think the takeaway should be the Broncos run game is definitely capable of making this offense a duel threat offense. Moreno has broken a few big runs now, and even Hillman is getting to the edge of the line and turning it upfield for some gains. Ball didn't fumble today, so that's nice. This is not going to be a #1 rushing offense. But they've added a lot of rushing yards in the past two weeks, enough that I am confident this offense can count on them when they need to.

Don't even look at Ball's numbers at the end. Garbage time clock killing run stats.

Moreno averaged over 6 YPC. That is huge. Biting off big chunks of yards on 1st and 2nd down. We may have only been 5-8 on 3rd down, But we had 35 first downs, (5 from penalties) so 5 more on 3rd down, 25 1st downs on 1st or 2nd down.

Moving those chains!

 

[cdumler7]

I would say when it actually comes to the running game instead of yards per game being the determining factor of how good of a running team we are I would say yards per carry is the stat to keep track of. For the Broncos right now they are about middle of the pack in the NFL but seem to actually be getting better as the season progresses. Big part of that my guess is the youth in the backfield just getting used to the speed of the game. To me having that threat of being able to run for 4-5 yards per carry in a game is huge for this team this year. Throw in the fact that the Broncos have 3 RB's that can actually all do that should make this a tough team to defend.

Throw in the Broncos are actually able to punch it in this year when on the goal line by both passing and running. Been a long time since we have had that threat. Both have been on show the last couple of weeks. Really keeps the defense completely guessing what is coming at the goal line.