Bengals super duper mega free agency signing thread

[cincygrad]

Why is playoff success a different argument?

Isn't the whole point to create/build/draft a team with a goal of winning the super bowl?

My argument would be that in the hands of a different head coach, this team would have won a playoff game or more already. I don't think there is anything wrong with our personnel per se.... But we've always had the personality of choking with the lights on. For that, I blame the coach.

 

[Kingspoint]

It takes a special kind of a Coach to go 0-7 with the kind of talent he's been given, not to mention his December chokes where he was in position to make the playoffs and missed them.

That said, he's a lot better than he used to be and the continuity has made the team pretty tight as a unit. That will go a long way for a Super Bowl run, if they can just get that first win.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Why is playoff success a different argument?

Isn't the whole point to create/build/draft a team with a goal of winning the super bowl?

Because you are making the error in connecting A to B when they are independent of one another.

Just because you build a good team does not mean that you are going to win, win in the playoffs, and win the S.B. Yes, it should, but there are many other factors that also play a part in that besides just roster. Coaching, Injuries, opponents, scheduling, coaching (Yes, it's listed twice here for very good reason). There are a lot of really good rosters that fall flat and not only fail to make a S.B. run, but don't even make the playoffs. Happens every year.

Conversely, just because you have a bad team doesn't mean you can't win, win in the playoffs, or even make it to the S.B. Some really bad teams have won playoff games, and made runs that they should not have, with players that shouldn't have even been playing.

By building a good roster you increase your chances of winning, and you increase your chances of having longer staying power while being competitive, but it's never a guarantee. This is why they are independent of one another.

 

[alf8478]

Obviously things are going to go wrong at times and obviously only 1 teams wins the super bowl. When I meant goal is to win the super bowl, i meant that they should use all of their resources in such a way that they put the best team on the field that they believe can compete for an win a super bowl.

My point is, at some point, the people who run this team need to realize that while they have had a lot of regular season success, its all irrelevant when you're 0-7 in the playoffs. And maybe, just maybe, a change in offseason philosophy might actually help to get over the hump.

They kept (in my opinion), the 2 guys they needed to.

I'm not advocating for spending stupidly. They have anywhere from $15-30 million in cap room every year (depending on who you believe), I'm saying find one player at one position who will be an immediate upgrade at a position of weakness, and go out, and get him. Or target a player in the draft and move up and get him. Take a chance for once.

Then use the rest of the draft for the rest of the positions. And don't give the fans this bullshit about compensatory picks in the following year's draft. This team is built to win now.

Stop pretending that the Brandon Tate and Russell Bodine and Peko's of the world are the answer because they know the system. If your system is so good, other players can learn it. This idea of keeping continuity on the roster is such a load of crap. You've had the same (for the most part) roster for 5 years and still haven't won a playoff game, that alone should tell them something.

Well, this unexpectedly turned into a rant.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Obviously things are going to go wrong at times and obviously only 1 teams wins the super bowl. When I meant goal is to win the super bowl, i meant that they should use all of their resources in such a way that they put the best team on the field that they believe can compete for an win a super bowl.

My point is, at some point, the people who run this team need to realize that while they have had a lot of regular season success, its all irrelevant when you're 0-7 in the playoffs. And maybe, just maybe, a change in offseason philosophy might actually help to get over the hump.

They kept (in my opinion), the 2 guys they needed to.

I'm not advocating for spending stupidly. They have anywhere from $15-30 million in cap room every year (depending on who you believe), I'm saying find one player at one position who will be an immediate upgrade at a position of weakness, and go out, and get him. Or target a player in the draft and move up and get him. Take a chance for once.

Then use the rest of the draft for the rest of the positions. And don't give the fans this bullshit about compensatory picks in the following year's draft. This team is built to win now.

Stop pretending that the Brandon Tate and Russell Bodine and Peko's of the world are the answer because they know the system. If your system is so good, other players can learn it. This idea of keeping continuity on the roster is such a load of crap. You've had the same (for the most part) roster for 5 years and still haven't won a playoff game, that alone should tell them something.

Well, this unexpectedly turned into a rant.

You make good points. Points I do agree with. I'd love to have seen an uprade at MLB and DT over Ray and Peko (though Peko did have a good season last year). I do think they could allow themselves to stretch a little more, and if you believe reports they were willing to do that this year to keep Marvin Jones. Had he taken the 8MM offer, the Bengals would have blown by the 20MM mark in F/A. Much more than what people were saying they would probably spend, which was around the 15MM mark. They were willing to cut it tighter on injury money and maybe not look to re-sign someone who's contract is coming due, and wait til next year. Hard to know now.

And really, when it does come down to it, the thing that is going to get this team over the hump most likely is not a player. The coaching staff has got to take better advantage, and better control, of the roster. If they didn't allow Jones and Burfict to lose their minds all the time, or keep them more accountable, the Pitt game is a win, and that is with a backup QB mind you. Yes it falls on the players, but the coaching staff has had a horrible history of accountability of big time players on this team from CJ/OCHO to now Burfict and in between with Thurman, and Henry. Talk is cheap. They need to actually hold those players accountable.

 

[Kingspoint]

Because you are making the error in connecting A to B when they are independent of one another.

Just because you build a good team does not mean that you are going to win, win in the playoffs, and win the S.B. Yes, it should, but there are many other factors that also play a part in that besides just roster. Coaching, Injuries, opponents, scheduling, coaching (Yes, it's listed twice here for very good reason). There are a lot of really good rosters that fall flat and not only fail to make a S.B. run, but don't even make the playoffs. Happens every year.

Conversely, just because you have a bad team doesn't mean you can't win, win in the playoffs, or even make it to the S.B. Some really bad teams have won playoff games, and made runs that they should not have, with players that shouldn't have even been playing.

By building a good roster you increase your chances of winning, and you increase your chances of having longer staying power while being competitive, but it's never a guarantee. This is why they are independent of one another.

You forgot the Steeler bias is also a factor (allowing them to cheat, helping them to cheat, cheating for them...all by the NFL with no repercussions).

 

[Kingspoint]

Wonder if Mike Brown is waiting for both Hall and Nelson to possibly get humbled (because of age) by their market before making an offer to either. He's done this before and is a tricky game, as you risk alienating a quality player. Shawn Williams or no Shawn Williams, I'd rather have Nelson, who continues to play extremely well. And, I'd love to have Hall.

 

[cincygrad]

I've always been a big Leon Hall fan, but I think it's time to move on. Sure, I'd keep him if he took bottom dollar, but otherwise I think it's time to let him go.

Nelson is interesting.... He could have signed elsewhere last time he was up, but he eventually came back to us. I think the Bengals probably have a deal on the table that isn't overwhelming, but Nelson might not be getting a lot of love due to his age.

 

[DanBengalfan]

the only way to keep your sanity during the offseason, remember what team you root for. By not overspending for players the Bengals have managed to at least get to the playoffs several seasons in a row. eventually we'll make it to the second round, if not by any other means then by dumb luck. Andy Dalton isn't the sexiest QB in the league, but he's not getting less experienced by a long shot. eventually even a blind squirrel can find his nuts and scratch them.

 

[Kingspoint]

Bengals didn't sign him, but Brandon Thompson is making his first known visit,...to the Seahawks. Thompson isn't expected to be healthy enough to matter until halfway through the season, so any signing by any team is more of a "let's see how you recover from your injury and we'll go from there" signing. Can't see him getting more than $500K bonus and $1.5M in salary for 2016.

 

[Kingspoint]

Hall is still one of the Top-10 Slot Coverage players and is also a Top-10 Slot Corner in support of the run. He'd be worth more than whatever he signs for this year. We gave Jones, 2-3 years older, $8M for this year and Dre, one of the bottom-5 Starters in the NFL, $7M for this year. Certainly, Hall would be worth at least $4M. Look at how much Peko, Hawk and Maualuga are getting this year? Compared to all of these players, $4M to Hall would be a better investment, though to get Hall this early in Free Agency, it would take 2 years (of which any team can always cut him, anyway).

 

[cincygrad]

Hall is still one of the Top-10 Slot Coverage players and is also a Top-10 Slot Corner in support of the run. He'd be worth more than whatever he signs for this year. We gave Jones, 2-3 years older, $8M for this year and Dre, one of the bottom-5 Starters in the NFL, $7M for this year. Certainly, Hall would be worth at least $4M. Look at how much Peko, Hawk and Maualuga are getting this year? Compared to all of these players, $4M to Hall would be a better investment, though to get Hall this early in Free Agency, it would take 2 years (of which any team can always cut him, anyway).

I don't think teams think Leon has anything more left in the tank physically..... Yes, he's younger that Pacman, but age effects people differently.

BTW -- I have to say that I am very disappointed that we've made it this far into the offseason without a single mention of Leon Hall playing safety. Whatever happened to the old days when we always believed our aging corners would just move to safety?

 

[Kingspoint]

I have a gut feeling that Sims get signed tomorrow so everyone can enjoy the opening weekend of Spring Break.

Anyone want to bet that Manziel gets arrested over Spring Break?

 

[Be Weary of Query]

 

[Kingspoint]

LaFell is visiting the Bengals today. He'll have to pass the physical. He was a shell of his 2014 version last year coming back from injury.

 

[cincygrad]

LaFell is visiting the Bengals today. He'll have to pass the physical. He was a shell of his 2014 version last year coming back from injury.

We're kicking some tires baby!

 

[Kingspoint]

I think we're done until May.

 

[Kingspoint]

Defensive lineman Willie Henry (Michigan) stood on his Combine numbers and did only position drills. The Cincinnati Bengals, New York Jets and New England Patriots sent defensive line coaches to the workout for Henry.

Read more at 2016 NFL Pro Day Results: WalterFootball.com

 

[Kingspoint]

Ferris State
The much-anticipated pro day for small-school defensive lineman Justin Zimmer of Ferris State, who worked out in Michigan today, is complete.

Some of the times are all over the place, but thus far I've been given the following: Zimmer measured 6024, 302 pounds, completed 44 reps on the bench, posted a vertical jump of 32 inches and a broad jump of 9-9. His 40 times ranged from the high 4.8s to the low 4.9s, while his 3-cone times were as fast as 7.10.

Zimmer did defensive line drills and no offensive line drills. I'm told most of the teams in attendance at Michigan pro day have approached Zimmer for one-on-one interviews. (the Bengals had a D-Line Coach there)

Read more at 2016 NFL Pro Day Results: WalterFootball.com

 

[Kingspoint]

San Jose State
The Spartans' workout took place on Wednesday, but almost 50 scouts were on hand to watch the three prime prospects.

Tyler Ervin sat on most of his Combine numbers, but was put through a position workout that lasted 45 minutes. Ervin was put through running back drills, ran receiver routes and also participated in punt/kick return drills. Multiple sources told me Ervin looked good and could sneak into the third round. The Seattle Seahawks, Detroit Lions and Oakland Raiders all sent their offensive coordinators. The Cincinnati Bengals already worked out Ervin privately.

Read more at 2016 NFL Pro Day Results: WalterFootball.com