Ben Simmons formally demands trade

[tlance]

I’m on board with shared blame. I think most are. The debate comes in laying out what percentage parties have for the blame. Is it mostly Simmons? Is it mostly the Sixers? Is it split down the middle? We’ve both coached before. I teach. Where I am on this stuff is two fold. You can lead the horse to water but you can’t make it drink. At the same time, the measure of greatness in a coach or teacher is the ability to get as many horses to drink the water as you can. The GOATs in that realm can attain exceptional buy in.

Exactly.

And here is the thing.

Good leaders assume blame to take pressure off of their supporting cast even in situations that aren’t really their fault.

Simmons is clearly not a leader. Yet Embiid, Doc, and Philly brass to a certain extent have failed to properly lead by allowing Ben to be thrown under the bus publicly.

Ultimately, Ben’s play and his lack of improvement is on nobody but him.

BUT…. better leadership would have assumed the blame, at least attempted to shield the mentally fragile Simmons from extra public scrutiny and ultimately salvaged the relationship with the player.

And a better relationship would have allowed them to trade Simmons at full value for a legit difference maker.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Sixer fans: Simmons is a broken loser. The team will never win with him.

Also sixer fans: Morey should only trade Simmons for Lillard, maybe kawhi….

Lol

Best post of the thread

 

[raptorlife4]

 

[fightinfunbags]

Exactly.

And here is the thing.

Good leaders assume blame to take pressure off of their supporting cast even in situations that aren’t really their fault.

Simmons is clearly not a leader. Yet Embiid, Doc, and Philly brass to a certain extent have failed to properly lead by allowing Ben to be thrown under the bus publicly.

Ultimately, Ben’s play and his lack of improvement is on nobody but him.

BUT…. better leadership would have assumed the blame, at least attempted to shield the mentally fragile Simmons from extra public scrutiny and ultimately salvaged the relationship with the player.

And a better relationship would have allowed them to trade Simmons at full value for a legit difference maker.

I agree with you that’s what leaders do. They need to do it all the time and that’s where Embiid screwed up. He has done it for years and he messed up after a Game 7 loss as a 1 seed.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Tbh he probably does have mental issues. He can't fathom the fact he could be a great player if he attempts to shoot the ball past 9 feet. I mean I cannot come to any other reasoning.

Is there a treatment for delusion megalomania?

 

[tlance]

I agree with you that’s what leaders do. They need to do it all the time and that’s where Embiid screwed up. He has done it for years and he messed up after a Game 7 loss as a 1 seed.

And had Doc, or really anybody in management gone the other way and gotten Embiid to apologize, all would have been okay.

That still hasn’t really happened. And it took Simmons to make the first move.

Where is the leadership in Philly?

 

[fightinfunbags]

And had Doc, or really anybody in management gone the other way and gotten Embiid to apologize, all would have been okay.

That still hasn’t really happened. And it took Simmons to make the first move.

Where is the leadership in Philly?

Still wouldn’t change the fact that the Sixers need to move on from Simmons. It may repair or have alleviated this ancillary bull shit but it would have no impact on the bigger picture situation. Ben Simmons would be more likely to be in the fold and there would still be daily trade rumors. He would still be hearing it from his home crowd Simmons has exhausted all chances and good will with.

 

[tlance]

Still wouldn’t change the fact that the Sixers need to move on from Simmons. It may repair or have alleviated this ancillary bull shit but it would have no impact on the bigger picture situation. Ben Simmons would be more likely to be in the fold and there would still be daily trade rumors. He would still be hearing it from his home crowd Simmons has exhausted all chances and good will with.

Yes and no.

They still need to move on.

Without the drama playing out in public however, Simmons’ trade value would be way more than it is today.

And that is 100% on the 6ers, not Simmons.

Which is why I say that while Simmons is clearly far from blameless, the situation that the 6ers are in currently is caused by their own doing and has been years in the making with poor culture.

And I do think while it feels good to point the finger at Ben, it is counterproductive. It is in Philly’s best interest for everyone, including the fans, to realize that.

 

[The Q]

Yes and no.

They still need to move on.

Without the drama playing out in public however, Simmons’ trade value would be way more than it is today.

And that is 100% on the 6ers, not Simmons.

Which is why I say that while Simmons is clearly far from blameless, the situation that the 6ers are in currently is caused by their own doing and has been years in the making with poor culture.

And I do think while it feels good to point the finger at Ben, it is counterproductive. It is in Philly’s best interest for everyone, including the fans, to realize that.

Yup. That’s what I’ve been saying….in a much more prickly way lol

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yes and no.

They still need to move on.

Without the drama playing out in public however, Simmons’ trade value would be way more than it is today.

And that is 100% on the 6ers, not Simmons.

Which is why I say that while Simmons is clearly far from blameless, the situation that the 6ers are in currently is caused by their own doing and has been years in the making with poor culture.

And I do think while it feels good to point the finger at Ben, it is counterproductive. It is in Philly’s best interest for everyone, including the fans, to realize that.

If there is reason for Simmons value to diminish it comes from the histrionics he has put on display. These things make projecting Simmons realizing his potential a larger question mark. The Sixers really aren’t in control of that. The dip you’re focused on is leverage which is an important component in assessing value in any potential deal. If the league knows the Sixers want to move on from Ben, an untenable situation where he has to go, that reduces leverage. But that gets mitigated when you have 9-11 teams this summer inquiring. The number of teams interested creates leverage. With Simmons antics he is similar to a draft eligible player with an injury red flag. Teams just take that player off their board. That’s the biggest loss in leverage here and all of that is in Simmons hands. Another aspect of Sixers leverage lies in the years remaining on the contract coupled with Morley’s reputation for outside the box thinking as a GM. Just because conventional wisdom says to cut the cancer out, it’s not a given that Morey won’t sit on the asset until a star becomes available in the next few years. I personally think a GM blinks when a team with some level of expectations open the season playing below those expectations. Morey in the end may settle for a deal of picks or young players he can turn or some mix of that or a haul of role players to fit around Embiid and Harris. But he gets there by showing a willingness to wait it out making the team that’s serious throw in that last piece he wants to pull the trigger. Take the Kings for interest. Maybe they are holding back Halliburton or some other piece the Sixers want in the deal. Maybe that changes when you see more games.

 

[The Q]

If there is reason for Simmons value to diminish it comes from the histrionics he has put on display. These things make projecting Simmons realizing his potential a larger question mark. The Sixers really aren’t in control of that. The dip you’re focused on is leverage which is an important component in assessing value in any potential deal. If the league knows the Sixers want to move on from Ben, an untenable situation where he has to go, that reduces leverage. But that gets mitigated when you have 9-11 teams this summer inquiring. The number of teams interested creates leverage. With Simmons antics he is similar to a draft eligible player with an injury red flag. Teams just take that player off their board. That’s the biggest loss in leverage here and all of that is in Simmons hands. Another aspect of Sixers leverage lies in the years remaining on the contract coupled with Morley’s reputation for outside the box thinking as a GM. Just because conventional wisdom says to cut the cancer out, it’s not a given that Morey won’t sit on the asset until a star becomes available in the next few years. I personally think a GM blinks when a team with some level of expectations open the season playing below those expectations. Morey in the end may settle for a deal of picks or young players he can turn or some mix of that or a haul of role players to fit around Embiid and Harris. But he gets there by showing a willingness to wait it out making the team that’s serious throw in that last piece he wants to pull the trigger. Take the Kings for interest. Maybe they are holding back Halliburton or some other piece the Sixers want in the deal. Maybe that changes when you see more games.

Barnes
Hield
Mitchell

Everyone shut up and close it. Lol

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Barnes
Hield
Mitchell

Everyone shut up and close it. Lol

To get that return at this point the Sixers should be doing summersaults. And it still leaves the Kings with a nice core.

But I'd bet anything Morey would be asking for picks and blow it up

 

[The Q]

To get that return at this point the Sixers should be doing summersaults. And it still leaves the Kings with a nice core.

But I'd bet anything Morey would be asking for picks and blow it up

Salary wise hield or Barnes has to be in the deal

And if it’s barnes mitchell I think 100% would need To be there and he’s a young flippable prospect

I think I’d prefer my timberwolves stuff. But I could see Philly being more here too

 

[flyerhawk]

Salary wise hield or Barnes has to be in the deal

And if it’s barnes mitchell I think 100% would need To be there and he’s a young flippable prospect

I think I’d prefer my timberwolves stuff. But I could see Philly being more here too

Barnes and/or Hield must be in any deal with the Kings unless they decide to move on from Fox which I think is unlikely.

The Kings are not well constructed and have their own problems. They have young big man they won't play and they have 3 guards that will want to start.


But the Kings are a weird team. Vivek falls in love with players and prevents the front office from making moves that it should make so I doubt they are willing to make any move.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Barnes
Hield
Mitchell

Everyone shut up and close it. Lol

I don’t think salary matches up. If Sixers can ship Danny Green they can make the salary work. Not sure what the rule is because he was just resigned.

 

[Iggloo]

I would do that deal. Davion Mitchell is key for me. I think he is going to be very good.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I would do that deal. Davion Mitchell is key for me. I think he is going to be very good.

He's basically a first round pick as well. One that has already showed out in the summer league also

 

[Iggloo]

 

[The Q]

I don’t think salary matches up. If Sixers can ship Danny Green they can make the salary work. Not sure what the rule is because he was just resigned.

Yeah the salary is the tough part. It might work if you swap curry for hield

 

[Shanemansj13]

I think the deal would have been already if SAC was willing to give up Hield and Davion. I think they love all their guards too much, other than Hield. They are guard crazed