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Ben Simmons formally demands trade

fightinfunbags

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In terms of valuing him as a trade asset?

Yes.

At the time of the Simmons trade he was a Bad contract.
I disagree. Even a reduced Harden was good enough for 22/10. The Sixers lacked a true PG. Without Harden, in the playoffs when the game becomes a half court game, the Sixers would be lost. They often struggled to do simple things in the half court like moving the ball to get a clean entry pass to Embiid. Harden is not a bad contract at all.
 

fightinfunbags

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Truthfully if Kyrie could put away his bullshit for a year he's just about the best player in the league to be paired with Ben. He used to playing off the ball with all those years with Lebron.

But then that also requires Ben to pull shit together.

Pure talent...Brooklyn is clearly the best team.
On paper, I agree. But then you realize you’re having to project good things from two of the biggest mental cases in the NBA.
 

tlance

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I disagree. Even a reduced Harden was good enough for 22/10. The Sixers lacked a true PG. Without Harden, in the playoffs when the game becomes a half court game, the Sixers would be lost. They often struggled to do simple things in the half court like moving the ball to get a clean entry pass to Embiid. Harden is not a bad contract at all.

22-10 with bad defense is not worth $47 million a year for 2 seasons or whatever he is making.

No doubt Harden is a good player who makes the 6ers better.

But he is not an asset in contact of the contract he is playing on.

There are lots of players that could be said for.
 

fightinfunbags

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22-10 with bad defense is not worth $47 million a year for 2 seasons or whatever he is making.

No doubt Harden is a good player who makes the 6ers better.

But he is not an asset in contact of the contract he is playing on.

There are lots of players that could be said for.
The Sixers are a luxury tax team. You’re thinking like a small market squad thinks. The Sixers have the luxury of overpaying for what Harden brings. It’s not a contract that will handcuff them unless Morey loses his mind and re-ups him from here. Harden’s 22/10 at 45 mil (average) over two years is much more valuable than Simmons 30 million for 4 more years at DNP.
 

fightinfunbags

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22-10 with bad defense is not worth $47 million a year for 2 seasons or whatever he is making.

No doubt Harden is a good player who makes the 6ers better.

But he is not an asset in contact of the contract he is playing on.

There are lots of players that could be said for.
Additionally, if you’ve been watching, Harden’s defense hasn’t been that bad. He’s never going to be elite in that regard. But everything we heard when he came is that he isn’t even a willing defender. That hasn’t been the case. He has played his role in the context of the team D.
 

tlance

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The Sixers are a luxury tax team. You’re thinking like a small market squad thinks. The Sixers have the luxury of overpaying for what Harden brings. It’s not a contract that will handcuff them unless Morey loses his mind and re-ups him from here. Harden’s 22/10 at 45 mil (average) over two years is much more valuable than Simmons 30 million for 4 more years at DNP.

No, I am not.

We are talking about trade value. You can’t ignore a players contract when thinking about his trade value. Only legit superstars are positive trade assets on a full max deal. Harden isn’t that anymore.

Draymond Green is a bad contract. Players like him don’t have positive trade value because they make a lot of money and he might not fit another team like he fits GS.

BUT…

As I have said on here a million times, these players are highly valuable to their teams. And of course their teams would be stupid to dump their contracts so they wouldn’t do it.

You are the one promoting the Harden trade in hopes of propping Simmons trade value. Simmons would not have had to be tied to 2 productive role players to return a star with negative trade value before this mess.
 

fightinfunbags

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No, I am not.

We are talking about trade value. You can’t ignore a players contract when thinking about his trade value. Only legit superstars are positive trade assets on a full max deal. Harden isn’t that anymore.

Draymond Green is a bad contract. Players like him don’t have positive trade value because they make a lot of money and he might not fit another team like he fits GS.

BUT…

As I have said on here a million times, these players are highly valuable to their teams. And of course their teams would be stupid to dump their contracts so they wouldn’t do it.

You are the one promoting the Harden trade in hopes of propping Simmons trade value. Simmons would not have had to be tied to 2 productive role players to return a star with negative trade value before this mess.
Sure he would. The contracts don’t match by about 15 million dollars.
 

tlance

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Sure he would. The contracts don’t match by about 15 million dollars.

LOL.

It wouldn’t have been Curry and Drummond, I promise you that.

It would have been whoever the Sixers deemed expendable.
 

thunderc

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That is patently false.

You may have supported him for a long time…

But you most definitely did not support him after the playoff loss to the Hawks.

Go back and read the comments on the 6er/ATL thread from last year for a glimpse of how Philly fans “supported him”.

They way that the organization and the fans chose not to support him directly led to him quitting.

And yes, absolutely created a toxic work environment that would be brutal for someone dealing with any type of mental health issue.
He’s so fn mistreated, what an absolute joke
 

trojanfan12

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May no one in your family ever have mental health issues.

If he has a mental health issue, genius, that emanates from his brain chemistry and the way in which he interacts with the world. Is every employer in the world responsible for the millions of Americans suffering from mental health issues? Take your bleeding heart and shove it directly up your rectum. The Sixers and Sixers fans did nothing but support the dude until he quit.

lol

Too late.
 

trojanfan12

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Imo, it was probably time for Simmons and Philly to part ways before that game happened. Sixers fans supported him through the process and despite him never really appearing to work on his game. What happened at the end of that game was just the final straw.

Having said that, the Sixers are looking at completely blowing Embiids championship window because they and their fans can't get over him.
 

fightinfunbags

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Having said that, the Sixers are looking at completely blowing Embiids championship window because they and their fans can't get over him.
You have to take me through this reasoning. I do suffer from delusions of grandeur and feel overly self important but even I am struggling with how I play a part in the decision making of the Philly front office or Embiid’s health, or whether Harden adds some old man to his game, or if Maxey takes his game to another level, or if the front office can flip Harris into other pieces, etc… how are we blowing the window? And once we do that…should I congratulate you for crafting Hollywood and LeBron’s desire to dabble in that sphere? Should I blame you for making the trade for RW? I need some guidance here but I’m very excited to find out that apparently I play a big role in determining things. It was gonna be a lazy Sunday but I feel like I need to get to work on some thing right now. Gonna scour YouTube to see what value lies in the second round of the draft this year.
 

Darrell Green Fan

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That is patently false.

You may have supported him for a long time…

But you most definitely did not support him after the playoff loss to the Hawks.

Go back and read the comments on the 6er/ATL thread from last year for a glimpse of how Philly fans “supported him”.

They way that the organization and the fans chose not to support him directly led to him quitting.

And yes, absolutely created a toxic work environment that would be brutal for someone dealing with any type of mental health issue.

You think it was wrong for fans to push back when a player passes up a wide open dunk in the playoffs because he was afraid that he may actually have to shoot free throws? Really? All this mental health issue stuff is speculation. You don't know he has mental health issues. We saw in the draft analysis posted earlier he has always been a prima donna little bitch who cries when he does not get his way.

How anyone can blame anyone but the player for taking millions of dollars for doing nothing but cry is amazing to me.
 

tlance

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You think it was wrong for fans to push back when a player passes up a wide open dunk in the playoffs because he was afraid that he may actually have to shoot free throws? Really? All this mental health issue stuff is speculation. You don't know he has mental health issues. We saw in the draft analysis posted earlier he has always been a prima donna little bitch who cries when he does not get his way.

How anyone can blame anyone but the player for taking millions of dollars for doing nothing but cry is amazing to me.

Because all parties take blame in how the situation went down. Of course Simmons deserves plenty of blame.

And yet, time and again, the public wants to point the finger at the player only and pretend like everyone else is blameless.

That isn’t reality
 

MHSL82

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I'm exceptionally perplexed at why people make so many excuses for this dude. I actually happen to agree Philly equally contributed to his wanting out....where I part ways is with a guy who insisted it was a mental thing...then when it could have came down to him not getting paid the old back injury flares up...and then he is ready to play, but oh no me back hurts so im out for the rest of the year.

But yea...still have mental issues and oh...did you guys actually expect me to work out or stay in shape while I was out?
If he was the qb of your favorite football team I doubt any of you would be so sympathetic. But because for some ungodly reason a former number one with all star talent is not seen as a leader in any way shape or form despite a 100 million dollar plus price tag.

Had he stuck with the mental narrative all year I could maybe see it. But the dude pussyfooted all year long wirh coming back.

I will first say that I am biased because I don’t like him because he couldn’t even list Donovan Mitchell (or anyone else) at second place in the rookie of the year contest. His fragility was so insecure and he couldn’t even say that some of the second place. So that just rubbed me the wrong way. I know that mental health isn’t all about confidence, but if you were confident in yourself, you could still say that someone else in second place. Michael Jordan knows he is first place, but he wouldn’t hesitate to list anyone else as second person whether that be LeBron, Kobe, Wilt, Magic, etc.

But having said that, I am OK with all his mental health issue if after he comes back he doesn’t dismiss it like he’s some tough guy. Use his experience for helping others, raise awareness, charity, don’t shy away from it. Use it for good in some way. But if he comes back and acts arrogant like there’s no issue, that either means that his mental health has not been addressed or it was fake or that he didn’t learn anything in the process, has no sympathy for others, growth, or concern.

Again, he can be confident as hell and he can even be arrogant, but if you use it as an excuse to not play, I think that even after the fact you shouldn’t this message, especially if he wants to be paid.

I don’t mean it has to share everything with the media. There are some private things, especially when they could be used comparatively against him in the future. I’m just talking about not acting like it was nothing.
 

MHSL82

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It should be noted as multiple people say the Sixers tanked the value of the Simmons asset that James Harden is exactly the type of player Sixers fans were told all summer that they would never land for Ben Simmons. People on this site were saying the Sixers should settle for players like Malcolm Brogdan and picks.

They landed James Harden because he wanted out (teams cave in to this more now) and Philly gave more than just Ben Simmons. This wasn’t a Ben Simmons for James Harden trade. I also think that most of the “you won’t get much for Simmons” talk was the summer and early season, prior to the end of the trade deadline.
 

Stakesarehigh

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I will first say that I am biased because I don’t like him because he couldn’t even list Donovan Mitchell (or anyone else) at second place in the rookie of the year contest. His fragility was so insecure and he couldn’t even say that some of the second place. So that just rubbed me the wrong way. I know that mental health isn’t all about confidence, but if you were confident in yourself, you could still say that someone else in second place. Michael Jordan knows he is first place, but he wouldn’t hesitate to list anyone else as second person whether that be LeBron, Kobe, Wilt, Magic, etc.

But having said that, I am OK with all his mental health issue if after he comes back he doesn’t dismiss it like he’s some tough guy. Use his experience for helping others, raise awareness, charity, don’t shy away from it. Use it for good in some way. But if he comes back and acts arrogant like there’s no issue, that either means that his mental health has not been addressed or it was fake or that he didn’t learn anything in the process, has no sympathy for others, growth, or concern.

Again, he can be confident as hell and he can even be arrogant, but if you use it as an excuse to not play, I think that even after the fact you shouldn’t this message, especially if he wants to be paid.

I don’t mean it has to share everything with the media. There are some private things, especially when they could be used comparatively against him in the future. I’m just talking about not acting like it was nothing.

Totally agree. If you're asking for leeway in the public eye because of mental health issues then you should be the first one out there beating the drum for others. But as you said that isn't his approach (at least at this time). He is an exceptionally me-centric guy (even down to Philly fans accusing him of having his best months right before the all star voting)

Perhaps he can turn a corner to use all this as good. But I'm highly doubtful of it. Whereas a guy like Tiger can make every mistake possible personally and get roasted for it people still respect his fire and determination and competitiveness.

Ben has to find something to be about. Other than just himself...in a team focused sport.

Some may say it's unfair to put him on this pedestal. But when you make superstar dollars you are held to a much higher standard.
 

Darrell Green Fan

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Because all parties take blame in how the situation went down. Of course Simmons deserves plenty of blame.

And yet, time and again, the public wants to point the finger at the player only and pretend like everyone else is blameless.

That isn’t reality

Sorry if I missed it but can you elaborate on how the players and organization failed to support him? As I said earlier I can certainly see why the fans turned on him, and if you were honest with yourself if that was your team in the playoffs and one of your guys did what he did you would be pissed too. So what was the organization supposed to do with a guy who quit on them? Give him support? Why?
 

tlance

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Sorry if I missed it but can you elaborate on how the players and organization failed to support him? As I said earlier I can certainly see why the fans turned on him, and if you were honest with yourself if that was your team in the playoffs and one of your guys did what he did you would be pissed too. So what was the organization supposed to do with a guy who quit on them? Give him support? Why?

Easy.

That is the code all athletes, coaches and organizations have to follow.

Show unconditional support to your guy in public. Have the hard, real conversations in private.

And if he doesn’t do his part, you trade him.

But you never throw him under the bus in public. And when/if the coach and best player do that (no matter how fair the criticism) the organization must follow with a strong show of public support.

Then trade his ass later.

You just can’t have a key player on your roster stewing and feeling unwanted all off-season. Bad business.
 
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