Bartolo Colon

[cezero]

I don't know if you can really blame the Players union unless you want harsher punishments? The players union has agreed to testing for HGH and more advanced testing. No other player unions will even agree to HGH testing yet. People are going to take the risk and try to use probably from now on, but personally I think the % of users since 98 has significantly dropped and will continue to drop

BTW, Braun did get busted, he just got off on a technicality.

You, like most, will just never get it.

You are exactly the fan that the players union and MLB put the dog and pony show on for.

People refuse to see what's in front of them, and then complain about the media trying to manipulate them.

'merica

 

[cezero]

How about investing their resources in better testing procedures or finding more convincing penalties? This definitely isn't the right way though.

We both know that neither the players union nor MLB really want that. It would be the kiss of death for baseball. As evidence, I give you a barely breathing MLB in the 90s that was saved by what? Steroids and HGH.

 

[Jbear]

You stop it by having lifetime bans for the first offense and forfeiture of all pay in the current contact of any offenders above the league minimum. This would include suing and seizure of assets for any amounts paid to offending players above the league minimum.

This will not happen though because MLB benefits from these players who tend to be "stars" because of their inflated statistics and capabilities. The individual baseball clubs are also benefitting from the current system because they have players like Arod, Colon and even Cruz (assuming he is actually guilty) who put butts in the seats and help teams make the playoffs. These teams are not effectively penalized when a player is caught now in relation to the benefit of making the playoffs and potentially winning a WS.

There is not even really a stigma with being caught. Yes the player will be kept out of the Hall of Fame but the disappointment of this quickly subsides when the player scores a huge financial windfall on his next free agent contract.

Cruz may or may not be guilty (I have no real way of knowing) but most Rangers fans are more concerned about getting back to the WS than we are about Cruz being aided with PEDs. Many of us want Cruz to stall until next season so he can help win games down the stretch. Cruz was never probably going to make the Hall of Fame any way so it is easy to see how financially attractive trying to skirt the PED rule may have been to him and many others.

Baseball is not going to eliminate this problem without enacting a lifetime ban on the first offense. The joke of it is that they would much rather stay with something similar to what they have now rather than change it to stop it permanently. The money is simply too appealing to all the major stake holders.

Pete Rose is banned for life from baseball and his actions did zero to effect even one game. MLB needs to look hard in the mirror and recognize their role in perpetuating this PED problem.

 

[Swangin]

You, like most, will just never get it.

You are exactly the fan that the players union and MLB put the dog and pony show on for.

People refuse to see what's in front of them, and then complain about the media trying to manipulate them.

'merica

If you are going to come across as being so enlightened, it would help if you explained yourself other than saying MLB doesn't care. Please break down for me... How would cezero of changed MLB over the last few years to make how you would like?

 

[Swangin]

You, like most, will just never get it.

You are exactly the fan that the players union and MLB put the dog and pony show on for.

People refuse to see what's in front of them, and then complain about the media trying to manipulate them.

'merica

It's not that I don't get it, the problem is I do get it. A large majority of human beings do whatever it takes to get an advantage in their careers, whether that be someone stealing clients, trying to get insider trading information, or taking steroids in a sport, or whatever the advantage people are using at that time. As long as people are making money everyone turns a blind eye. But as soon as someone can make money by busting them, or bringing it out, then it's over with. And in this case, baseball was so infected with steroid use, WITH NO RULES otherwise may I add. It's not something as simple as, if you get caught you are done.

I don't know how I would of tackled it, but I know there is a shit load involved for all parties to agree on, and a lot of legal issues to go through. The testing that is in place is night and day from 10 years ago, the punishment is night and day from 10 years ago. This doesn't go away over night, and I never said baseball was clean, but by human nature and the numbers I see from the players they come from tell me the league is cleaner than it was 10 years ago.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Even if Alex Rodriguez is banned for life, the Rangers still owe him more than $40 million | Texas Rangers Blog

$50mil ... grrrrrrrrr

 

[PDay8810]

It's not that I don't get it, the problem is I do get it. A large majority of human beings do whatever it takes to get an advantage in their careers, whether that be someone stealing clients, trying to get insider trading information, or taking steroids in a sport, or whatever the advantage people are using at that time. As long as people are making money everyone turns a blind eye. But as soon as someone can make money by busting them, or bringing it out, then it's over with. And in this case, baseball was so infected with steroid use, WITH NO RULES otherwise may I add. It's not something as simple as, if you get caught you are done.

I don't know how I would of tackled it, but I know there is a shit load involved for all parties to agree on, and a lot of legal issues to go through. The testing that is in place is night and day from 10 years ago, the punishment is night and day from 10 years ago. This doesn't go away over night, and I never said baseball was clean, but by human nature and the numbers I see from the players they come from tell me the league is cleaner than it was 10 years ago.

Very nicely said

 

[shtexas]

You stop it by having lifetime bans for the first offense and forfeiture of all pay in the current contact of any offenders above the league minimum. This would include suing and seizure of assets for any amounts paid to offending players above the league minimum.

This will not happen though because MLB benefits from these players who tend to be "stars" because of their inflated statistics and capabilities. The individual baseball clubs are also benefitting from the current system because they have players like Arod, Colon and even Cruz (assuming he is actually guilty) who put butts in the seats and help teams make the playoffs. These teams are not effectively penalized when a player is caught now in relation to the benefit of making the playoffs and potentially winning a WS.

There is not even really a stigma with being caught. Yes the player will be kept out of the Hall of Fame but the disappointment of this quickly subsides when the player scores a huge financial windfall on his next free agent contract.

Cruz may or may not be guilty (I have no real way of knowing) but most Rangers fans are more concerned about getting back to the WS than we are about Cruz being aided with PEDs. Many of us want Cruz to stall until next season so he can help win games down the stretch. Cruz was never probably going to make the Hall of Fame any way so it is easy to see how financially attractive trying to skirt the PED rule may have been to him and many others.

Baseball is not going to eliminate this problem without enacting a lifetime ban on the first offense. The joke of it is that they would much rather stay with something similar to what they have now rather than change it to stop it permanently. The money is simply too appealing to all the major stake holders.

Pete Rose is banned for life from baseball and his actions did zero to effect even one game. MLB needs to look hard in the mirror and recognize their role in perpetuating this PED problem.

Thanks for bringing up the bolded issue. Everyone seems to be ignoring this. If he is guilty, then he should serve his time. If it hurts the Rangers, well we benefited from his cheating in the past, so we have nothing to complain about. I'd just assume get him off the field to serve his suspension, if he is guilty. If he's not, and only he knows this, then he should fight. I also believe in second chances, and would welcome him back after his suspension if the powers that be for the Rangers want to bring him back.

 

[shtexas]

But, I am concerned that a first time offender such as Cruz or Peralta is getting 50 games and Braun, with all that has gone on with him, is getting, what, only 65. Seems too close for actions that are not of equal culpability...at least in my eyes.

 

[Swangin]

But, I am concerned that a first time offender such as Cruz or Peralta is getting 50 games and Braun, with all that has gone on with him, is getting, what, only 65. Seems too close for actions that are not of equal culpability...at least in my eyes.

Braun could of possibly appealed it and had a good chance of only getting the 50 games. But what is another 15 games to go through all that trouble and possibly face 100 games? He basically did a plea deal. I'm not saying what I think is wrong or right, but only legally. It happens every day in the world.

 

[RevSader]

I've made it totally clear that I have no issues with people who use PEDs. I have issues when they are caught red handed with a failed piss test and then make excuses about it and lie. If you are willing to risk giving up 50 games, for an advantage that is totally up to you.

Now when it comes to the arbitrary self righteousness of the MLB, I am at a loss. I don't know how you can ban something in 1991, but then not enforce the ban for 12 years. That shows a remarkable lack of ability to lead. Selig turned a blind eye to steroid use pre 2003. He knows deep down how much baseball gained from the home run era. I find it morally abhorrent for him now to go on a witch hunt in an attempt to "clean up the game." He's not being consistent in his pursuit of flawed justice. Every player should receive the same treatment under this investigation, and it's quite clear that is not the case. Every player should also have the right to defend themselves in the court of public opinion. Any opposition to the investigation is being met with harsher penalties. I don't know how the player's union is accepting this lunacy. Selig is on a rampage and it's making baseball look bad.

 

[RevSader]

Braun skated. He loses 3% of his salary, gets a 3 month extended vacation, and will be back to earning his full pay next year. This is why I cannot take the MLB seriously. They proved they are only out to get you for making them look bad, when it was their lack of action that lead to this.

 

[Swangin]

Braun skated. He loses 3% of his salary, gets a 3 month extended vacation, and will be back to earning his full pay next year. This is why I cannot take the MLB seriously. They proved they are only out to get you for making them look bad, when it was their lack of action that lead to this.

What did you want them to do? The rule is, if you get busted you are suspended for 50 games. If you want them to change the punishment that is fine, but in this particular case, with these particular rules in place, how did you want it to be different? Not what was put in place before, or what you want going forward, with the rules and laws as they are today, what could have been different?

 

[RevSader]

I wanted them to stick to the 100 games for a second offense if that's what they were calling it. Instead they gave him a deal. That's garbage. Why wouldn't any other person with strikes against them not reach out for a deal now? You give Braun less than the full punishment, but are going full steam after A-Rod? Where is the logic in that? Be consistent.

 

[Swangin]

I wanted them to stick to the 100 games for a second offense if that's what they were calling it. Instead they gave him a deal. That's garbage. Why wouldn't any other person with strikes against them not reach out for a deal now? You give Braun less than the full punishment, but are going full steam after A-Rod? Where is the logic in that? Be consistent.

That's the problem tho. He got off the first time, whether you think it's fair or like it or not. He has never been suspended for using anything. This was technically his first time. If he really wanted to fight legally with the rules as they are, he probably could of only received the 50 games. The guy that had the final decision got fired, and they have been on a hunt for Braun since he got off.

I'm not saying what is fair or not, but legally I don't see what they could have done differently unless they took it further and Braun took the chance of getting 100 games, and MLB takes a chance of it only being 50 games, which would be even more egg in the face. Neither party were willing to take that risk.

 

[RevSader]

That's the problem tho. He got off the first time, whether you think it's fair or like it or not. He has never been suspended for using anything. This was technically his first time. If he really wanted to fight legally with the rules as they are, he probably could of only received the 50 games. The guy that had the final decision got fired, and they have been on a hunt for Braun since he got off.

I'm not saying what is fair or not, but legally I don't see what they could have done differently unless they took it further and Braun took the chance of getting 100 games, and MLB takes a chance of it only being 50 games, which would be even more egg in the face. Neither party were willing to take that risk.

Braun approached them for a a reduced punishment. It wasn't the other way around. He saw the evidence they had against him, and he knew he was screwed. Them taking a plea deal doesn't make me think the are as serious as they swear. It's easy to go after a dude who is 38 and not healthy for a life time ban. Threaten a dude in his 20s with a lifetime ban and I will take you seriously.

Now they are going after guys with no record of failing drug tests based on the evidence of a guy who was being sued for helping players obtain and use banned substances. The whole thing reeks.

 

[Swangin]

Braun approached them for a a reduced punishment. It wasn't the other way around. He saw the evidence they had against him, and he knew he was screwed. Them taking a plea deal doesn't make me think the are as serious as they swear. It's easy to go after a dude who is 38 and not healthy for a life time ban. Threaten a dude in his 20s with a lifetime ban and I will take you seriously.

Now they are going after guys with no record of failing drug tests based on the evidence of a guy who was being sued for helping players obtain and use banned substances. The whole thing reeks.

There was evidence on him, he knew he was getting suspended that is true. But if MLB goes for a 100 games they risk the chance of him fighting it, and he could of easily had it reduced to 50 games, MLB was not going to take that chance. I don't see how in the hell they could have suspended him for 100 games legally, they knew that too. He probably did ask for a plea, he said if you give me 100 games, I'm fighting this and we both know how that will turn out.

 

[RevSader]

There was evidence on him, he knew he was getting suspended that is true. But if MLB goes for a 100 games they risk the chance of him fighting it, and he could of easily had it reduced to 50 games, MLB was not going to take that chance. I don't see how in the hell they could have suspended him for 100 games legally, they knew that too. He probably did ask for a plea, he said if you give me 100 games, I'm fighting this and we both know how that will turn out.

Once again, he approached them for a deal. You have it backwards. He knew they had more than enough evidence to put him away from 100 games. He didn't want the information getting out ruining his character, so instead he copped a deal and issued a bullshit statement about "making mistakes" and accepts the suspension. If you heard his adamant denial of ever using PEDS in 2012, then you know the MLB had loads of evidence against him. You don't accept a 60+ game ban if you are innocent. Braun got off easy. The MLB took the deal, because they got their ceremonial slap on the wrist.

 

[Swangin]

Once again, he approached them for a deal. You have it backwards. He knew they had more than enough evidence to put him away from 100 games. He didn't want the information getting out ruining his character, so instead he copped a deal and issued a bullshit statement about "making mistakes" and accepts the suspension. If you heard his adamant denial of ever using PEDS in 2012, then you know the MLB had loads of evidence against him. You don't accept a 60+ game ban if you are innocent. Braun got off easy. The MLB took the deal, because they got their ceremonial slap on the wrist.

So you think they had evidence of Braun himself being a dealer? What kind of evidence besides buying and using could they have had? If they had evidence of him doing something wrong other than buying and using, then they have set themselves up to be in a mess later on if they don't go to the proper authorities or something comes out later. I highly doubt they would put themselves in that situation.

 

[RevSader]

So you think they had evidence of Braun himself being a dealer? What kind of evidence besides buying and using could they have had? If they had evidence of him doing something wrong other than buying and using, then they have set themselves up to be in a mess later on if they don't go to the proper authorities or something comes out later. I highly doubt they would put themselves in that situation.

No, I think they more than one failed test that wasn't compromised, but told him about it before going forward. Armed with that knowledge he went for a plea deal. Baseball got their suspension of Braun finally, and he got his slate wiped clean.