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[jarntt]

Our D line needs some serious umph. I think we go there first, I do like Watt but his old injuries scare me off a bit, he has had a few biggies. The other 2 picks secondary. I would be happy with many outcomes come draft though. We seem to have the holes and the drafts seems to have the plugs.

LOL...I like that

You never know until a guy gets on an NFL field, but it does seem to be a pretty good match between this drafts strengths and our holes

 

[jarntt]

Dallas has been swinging and missing in the second round for a while now, I'm done with the half measures at DE. Dallas needs to pony up the 1st rounder and get one of the premier prospects, if there is one left.

Not since Demarcus Ware and Marcus Spears has Dallas made a real concerted effort to "fix" the Dline/pass rush.

I guess you could say drafting Demarcus Lawrence and Randy Gregory in back to back years was an attempt, but both of those guys had their warts coming out, and Lawrence was never considered a premier prospect. In fact I'll say Lawrence was a reach and Dallas panicked when they traded up to grab him. And we all knew the deal with Gregory even before he was drafted.

If Dallas had the #28 pick in 2014 they would have grabbed Lawrence. So you can question the scouting report, but not the effort to fix teh problem when they paid a price to get him. I think it was a good move and will pay off. Last year was an injury problem and he never got going IMO. The end of the year before he looked ready to step up. I think this year he is going to. Time will tell

 

[Godstree]

LOL...I like that

You never know until a guy gets on an NFL field, but it does seem to be a pretty good match between this drafts strengths and our holes

But now I have a long past vision of going out on a family boat outing on lake Pontchartrain and dad forgetting to put in the plug. Good times.......good times.

 

[Godstree]

Dallas has been swinging and missing in the second round for a while now, and I'm tired of the half measures at DE. Dallas needs to pony up the 1st rounder and get one of the premier prospects, if there is one left.

Not since Demarcus Ware and Marcus Spears has Dallas made a real concerted effort to "fix" the Dline/pass rush. Greg Hardy does not count - should have never signed him in the first place.

I guess you could say drafting Demarcus Lawrence and Randy Gregory in back to back years was an attempt, but both of those guys had their warts coming out, and Lawrence was never considered a premier prospect. In fact I'll say Lawrence was a reach and Dallas panicked when they traded up to grab him. And we all knew the deal with Gregory even before he was drafted.

That is where I am at and thinking that position gives us the most for the team. Helps out the dbacks significantly.

 

[es4m11]

If Dallas had the #28 pick in 2014 they would have grabbed Lawrence. So you can question the scouting report, but not the effort to fix teh problem when they paid a price to get him. I think it was a good move and will pay off. Last year was an injury problem IMO. The end of the year before he looked ready to step up. I think this year he is going to. Time will tell

Possibly. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I didn't agree with drafting Lawrence at the time either.

I bought into Lawrence in year 2, and he showed pretty well coming down the stretch in year 2. A couple concerns I had about Lawrence coming out of college was he had some drug concerns -- which ended up biting us -- and he had back troubles in college -- which ended up biting us. I have since soured on Lawrence a bit.

I said all this at the time he was drafted - I'm certain there is a record of it on this board somewhere.

 

[es4m11]

That is where I am at and thinking that position gives us the most for the team. Helps out the dbacks significantly.

Definitely. Over the last several seasons, the vast majority of time when the defense breaks down it's because QBs are getting 4-5+ seconds to throw the ball. That happens to this defense all the time. It has to stop.

The sack numbers were improved last year, but we still have trouble bringing CONSISTENT pressure. And the lack of consistent pressure is part of the reason our interception totals are so low every year.

 

[jarntt]

Possibly. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I didn't agree with drafting Lawrence at the time either.

I bought into Lawrence in year 2, and he showed pretty well coming down the stretch in year 2. A couple concerns I had about Lawrence coming out of college was he had some drug concerns -- which ended up biting us -- and he had back troubles in college -- which ended up biting us. I have since soured on Lawrence a bit.

I said all this at the time he was drafted - I'm certain there is a record of it on this board somewhere.

This is a big year for him. He can't be just another guy any more. He needs to step up.

 

[es4m11]

This is a big year for him. He can't be just another guy any more. He needs to step up.

I hope he does. Would love to see it. I think he has it in him, but is wildly inconsistent.

I don't know the true nature of his back injury, but seldom do those things ever improve under the rigors of a pro football schedule, so hopefully that isn't a limiting factor going forward. But usually, once your back is fucked, it is very hard to unfuck it.

 

[jarntt]

I think we have to write off Gregory pretty much for good at this point. Anyone disagree?

Focusing on the pass rush, I think Lawrence will be good at one DE spot and I think Collins could develop into a guy to get some push from DT and make some big plays, ideally the one tech. He just looks like a player to me. If we can add a stud 3 tech and another DE our pass rush could be dominant. Irving looks like he could grow into one of those spots (talk about inconsistent) or at least from time to time and we have a bunch of guys that can rotate and cause some problems. We are really one stud DL from a good pass rush and two from being as good as almost any in the league. Now of course I say that like grabbing a stud pass rusher is easy, but it doesn't have to be a Von Miller type, just a double digit sack guy...

 

[es4m11]

I think we have to write off Gregory pretty much for good at this point. Anyone disagree?

Focusing on the pass rush, I think Lawrence will be good at one DE spot and I think Collins could develop into a guy to get some push from DT and make some big plays, ideally the one tech. He just looks like a player to me. If we can add a stud 3 tech and another DE our pass rush could be dominant. Irving looks like he could grow into one of those spots (talk about inconsistent) or at least from time to time and we have a bunch of guys that can rotate and cause some problems. We are really one stud DL from a good pass rush and two from being as good as almost any in the league. Now of course I say that like grabbing a stud pass rusher is easy, but it doesn't have to be a Von Miller type, just a double digit sack guy...

It is very difficult to find that guy. That's why when I see a guy like Derek Barnett -- who I think is pretty close to a sure thing, who also just might be within striking distance -- I'd be happy to see Jerry make a splash. I hope to heaven that Jerry, Stephen, McClay and Garrett are feeling the same way.

I would love a Dline rotation of....
RDE:........Barnett, Mayowa, Moore
1-Tech:....Collins, Thornton, Paea
3-Tech:....Crawford, Irving
LDE:........Lawrence, Moore, Tapper

That's pretty deep, and definitely 1 or 2 of those guys wouldn't make the final 53. Moore and Tapper most likely...

 

[PDay8810]

Across the board? or just in Dallas's case? I agree in Dallas case but we really haven't gotten big named college talent there in first it seems.

pretty much across the board. Very few rookies come in and record 9/10 sacks that first year. I just think a more impactful player will be a DB in the first year. We have several rotation guys, which Rob seems comfortable with. We should be able to add a dline guy in round 2 or 3 with upside. We'll see.

 

[PDay8810]

Derek Barnett

I think you can forget about this guy being in Dallas. IMO, the cost is to high to move up to where I expect him to go off the board. I think this team likes Lawrence, Irving and Tapper at DE and will add another in the middle round

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Tapper is the wildcard here, only our staff really knows what they're getting out of him.

 

[PDay8810]

Tapper is the wildcard here, only our staff really knows what they're getting out of him.

Very true. The team really likes his first step explosion.

More often than not the dline guys are like QB's. They grow into the position after a year or two.

 

[es4m11]

I think you can forget about this guy being in Dallas. IMO, the cost is to high to move up to where I expect him to go off the board. I think this team likes Lawrence, Irving and Tapper at DE and will add another in the middle round

Probably so. I realize it's a long shot, but stranger things have happened. Realistically, Barnett is probably going in the 10-15 range. If he were to fall into the 20's, it becomes feasible to me. If teams decide they can wait on defense because of the depth and make a run in the 1st round on what little offensive talent there is available, I don't think it's completely out of the question that Barnett could fall 5-7 spots, or what have you.

 

[jarntt]

Probably so. I realize it's a long shot, but stranger things have happened. Realistically, Barnett is probably going in the 10-15 range. If he were to fall into the 20's, it becomes feasible to me. If teams decide they can wait on defense because of the depth and make a run in the 1st round on what little offensive talent there is available, I don't think it's completely out of the question that Barnett could fall 5-7 spots, or what have you.

One thing I know and that is that no one knows what will happen with the draft. In the next couple of weeks we will have guys slotted in a particular place for no reason other than one draft "expert" has him there and then 4 or 5 others followed and then it became a fact. I don't even look at Mocks any more. I'd rather just read Mayocks or others guys top 5 by position. IMO if NFL teams see a guy as a possible big time pass rusher he will go early. But as we all know guys rise and drop every single year and more importantly it only takes one NFL team to think a guy is worth a draft spot to make it true and conversely it always takes one to pull the trigger or the guy keeps falling.

For me, I don't really have a favorite player or two this year. There is too much that can happen before we pick. I have some positions I like and even at that each has a bunch of players. I guess around pick #25 I'll start really wanting a guy. I also feel I may like our second rounder as much as our first. There are just so many guys in that bottom of the first/top of the second category to me this year and most of them seem to be at a position we need!!!

 

[PDay8810]

Probably so. I realize it's a long shot, but stranger things have happened. Realistically, Barnett is probably going in the 10-15 range. If he were to fall into the 20's, it becomes feasible to me. If teams decide they can wait on defense because of the depth and make a run in the 1st round on what little offensive talent there is available, I don't think it's completely out of the question that Barnett could fall 5-7 spots, or what have you.

It should go without saying that anything is possible. I just think the first 20 or so selections each year are pretty solid in the evaluations by teams, but unknown character issues can drop a guy in a heart beat come draft day. Barnett seems a premier 4-3 DE... it just seems unlikely to me he's not drafted in the first half of round one. I think with this teams multiple needs, the move up for one guy is just to costly. I'd love the Barnett selection but at what cost? As I said...I think this team expects growth from some DE's already on the roster, and needs multiple year one contributors on the defensive side of the ball from this draft. That screams trade down if the draft is as deep as most are saying.

 

[es4m11]

It should go without saying that anything is possible. I just think the first 20 or so selections each year are pretty solid in the evaluations by teams, but unknown character issues can drop a guy in a heart beat come draft day. Barnett seems a premier 4-3 DE... it just seems unlikely to me he's not drafted in the first half of round one. I think with this teams multiple needs, the move up for one guy is just to costly. I'd love the Barnett selection but at what cost? As I said...I think this team expects growth from some DE's already on the roster, and needs multiple year one contributors on the defensive side of the ball from this draft. That screams trade down if the draft is as deep as most are saying.

I think the need is so great at DE that the ends would justify the cost. And again, I am not advocating trading the 2nd rounder - I fully expect Dallas to use that to grab a starter for the secondary. But a third rounder is a small price to pay for a guy who might be a future Pro-Bowler.

Of course this is all just "what if's and buts", that said, a guy can dream can't he?

I am not opposed to trading down, unless Barnett is available in a trade up and/or Takk or Watt are available at #28.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

I'm good with just about any move. Totally content with staying put, moving up for the right price works as does trading down and stockpiling. We're in a good spot.

 

[jarntt]

"I'd love the Barnett selection but at what cost?"

That would be the key question. If you give up a lot you need to hit on the pick and even still it could hurt if it costs us another player that may also contribute.

I think the need is so great at DE that the ends would justify the cost. And again, I am not advocating trading the 2nd rounder - I fully expect Dallas to use that to grab a starter for the secondary. But a third rounder is a small price to pay for a guy who might be a future Pro-Bowler.

Of course this is all just "what if's and buts", that said, a guy can dream can't he?

I am not opposed to trading down, unless Barnett is available in a trade up and/or Takk or Watt are available at #28.

We all know draft day charts are old and no more than a guide, but just as an FYI our 3rd would move us up around 6 spots. Probably less if we are the ones doing the calling and maybe more if a team is calling us. My gut says he is gone before a 3rd would get us in position to take him, but who knows how things will fall when hte real teams get on the clock. Really It all boils down to how much we love the player in question. I think we can get a player to contribute with that 3rd round pick, so I would prefer we don't give it up, but if we absolutely love the guy then I'll support it and be happy. 4th or lower I'm all for using to move around if the team feels they must. the first 3 picks are the ones that I like to hold onto.

But, I agree with your point about the draft and dreaming. We can all come up with our ideal situation. Who knows, maybe it comes true. Heck, Brown was a total afterthought to me about the draft last year and now I love the kid.