Back, Bubble, Gone

[wbon22]

So, who is safe looking ahead to the offseason and next season, who is on the bubble and who is gone.

Safe is pretty easy:
Giroux
Voracek
Schenn, B
Schenn, L
Couturier
Timonen
Mason
Grossmann


Bubble (and it is a sliding scale from mostly safe to not so much)
Hartnell
Simmons
Read
Rinaldo
Coburn
Mezaros
Gervais
Talbot
Fedotenko
Gagne
Briere
Bryzgolov

Gone
Knuble
Foster

I am leaving the l callups (Gustafsson, Lauridsen and McGinn) out because I am sure they will be in the organization, but not so sure they will be with the Flyers. Most of the people on the bubble are people who could/can bring a return or are candidates for the amnesty buyout(s). I didn't count Laughton. I think he wil make the team next season, but he was only here for 5 games this season.

Thoughts, questions, odds and ends?

 

[Slayer31]

I don't think we need to make a ton of changes.

I'll risk being labelled "Captain Obvious" with the following suggestions:

* Coach is gone. Too bad, cuz I think he's very good, but it's apparent that the team has lost faith in his system, and just aren't playing for him (or themselves) anymore. I'm a little worried about who they'll bring in next, and what kind of system they'll employ; I hate all-defense trap systems. Terrible to watch.

* Bryz should be bought out for reasons others have covered. Gotta find a new #1 goaltender, and that may not be easy. God I hope the plan is NOT to "hope Mason steps up" next year. Ugh.

* Defense obviously needs help, but we knew that prior to the start of this season. I still like Timonen and Coburn though (don't move either one; you'll only need to replace them) , and have hope Schenn can address his issues. After that, well...

I take it back... maybe we DO need a ton of changes.... but I wouldn't suggest stripping it down and starting over. I don't think things are so bleak that we need to embark on a long term rebuild, like Calgary and Edmonton are doing / have started.

 

[awaz]

So, who is safe looking ahead to the offseason and next season, who is on the bubble and who is gone.

Safe is pretty easy:
Giroux
Voracek
Schenn, B
Schenn, L
Couturier
Timonen
Mason
Grossmann


Bubble (and it is a sliding scale from mostly safe to not so much)
Hartnell
Simmons
Read
Rinaldo
Coburn
Mezaros
Gervais
Talbot
Fedotenko
Gagne
Briere
Bryzgolov

Gone
Knuble
Foster

I am leaving the l callups (Gustafsson, Lauridsen and McGinn) out because I am sure they will be in the organization, but not so sure they will be with the Flyers. Most of the people on the bubble are people who could/can bring a return or are candidates for the amnesty buyout(s). I didn't count Laughton. I think he wil make the team next season, but he was only here for 5 games this season.

Thoughts, questions, odds and ends?

i pretty much agree w/ your list.. i might have gagne a little higher/safer, meszaros a little lower.. and i think read is the most important one to keep of the 'bubble' guys.. he may even be a safe guy for me.. but for the most part, i agree w/ your list. well stated.

 

[awaz]

I don't think we need to make a ton of changes.

I'll risk being labelled "Captain Obvious" with the following suggestions:

* Coach is gone. Too bad, cuz I think he's very good, but it's apparent that the team has lost faith in his system, and just aren't playing for him (or themselves) anymore. I'm a little worried about who they'll bring in next, and what kind of system they'll employ; I hate all-defense trap systems. Terrible to watch.

* Bryz should be bought out for reasons others have covered. Gotta find a new #1 goaltender, and that may not be easy. God I hope the plan is NOT to "hope Mason steps up" next year. Ugh.

* Defense obviously needs help, but we knew that prior to the start of this season. I still like Timonen and Coburn though (don't move either one; you'll only need to replace them) , and have hope Schenn can address his issues. After that, well...

I take it back... maybe we DO need a ton of changes.... but I wouldn't suggest stripping it down and starting over. I don't think things are so bleak that we need to embark on a long term rebuild, like Calgary and Edmonton are doing / have started.

1. i agree, he should be gone see comment #3.

2. agreed. i dont think their plan A will be to 'hope mason turns it around' either.. i dont think snider gives up on his 'fix it. now.' remarks from a couple seasons ago too quickly. i just hope they don't overvalue goalies like they have the past couple times they've gone after goalies (leighton/bryz were both extremely overpaid compared to market value)

3. this is easily the topic that makes me the most nervous. i'm real worried the flyers will go all out to get a #1 dman and trade some big pieces (ie, couturier, read, 1st rounder, coburn, possibly hartnell) when, IMO, they really don't need one that badly this summer. timonen is a more than capable #1 dman.. grossman and schenn are bonafide #2's defensively.. if coburn regains form he's a fine 3/4.. then you still have mesz as a 5 if he can stay healthy, and gervais who has played pretty damn well as a #2 the past couple weeks, as your 6. the problem as i've stated before, is that they dont play to their strengths defensively. when you're 2, 3, and 4 are defensive dmen, the best play is NOT to rush the puck up all the time.

if i were in charge, i would get a defensive minded coach (probably murray) and look for a decent puck moving dman, not a superstar, or a superstar to be. i would look at ian white, mark streit, ryan whitney, joe corvo, and grant clitsome in UFA, if any of them actually make it there. and i would look to 'buy low' on someone like mike green in washington to see if he can regain his previous form.

 

[wbon22]

i pretty much agree w/ your list.. i might have gagne a little higher/safer, meszaros a little lower.. and i think read is the most important one to keep of the 'bubble' guys.. he may even be a safe guy for me.. but for the most part, i agree w/ your list. well stated.

FYI, my bubble list is not in any particular order other than the order that it came too mind.

 

[wbon22]

1. i agree, he should be gone see comment #3.

2. agreed. i dont think their plan A will be to 'hope mason turns it around' either.. i dont think snider gives up on his 'fix it. now.' remarks from a couple seasons ago too quickly. i just hope they don't overvalue goalies like they have the past couple times they've gone after goalies (leighton/bryz were both extremely overpaid compared to market value)

3. this is easily the topic that makes me the most nervous. i'm real worried the flyers will go all out to get a #1 dman and trade some big pieces (ie, couturier, read, 1st rounder, coburn, possibly hartnell) when, IMO, they really don't need one that badly this summer. timonen is a more than capable #1 dman.. grossman and schenn are bonafide #2's defensively.. if coburn regains form he's a fine 3/4.. then you still have mesz as a 5 if he can stay healthy, and gervais who has played pretty damn well as a #2 the past couple weeks, as your 6. the problem as i've stated before, is that they dont play to their strengths defensively. when you're 2, 3, and 4 are defensive dmen, the best play is NOT to rush the puck up all the time.

if i were in charge, i would get a defensive minded coach (probably murray) and look for a decent puck moving dman, not a superstar, or a superstar to be. i would look at ian white, mark streit, ryan whitney, joe corvo, and grant clitsome in UFA, if any of them actually make it there. and i would look to 'buy low' on someone like mike green in washington to see if he can regain his previous form.

So much good stuff.

2. I am less worried about the "lets hope mason can rise to the occasion" than I am in buying out Bryz (or anyone) and then making another over the top move overpaying .

3. The Flyers can really stand to improve on defense. Yes, the corps is not bad when looked at on paper, but they do not match the system that is being run and they are susceptible to the outside and can be forechecked by bigger teams .... That said, a change in system MAY make the blue line look great...or it may make it look worse. I would not be adverse to seeing at least one addition. My caveat being that I would rather it be something along the lines of the Keaton Ellerby/Colton Teubert...high draft pick who hasn't made it move than signing someone for big bucks....

On the coaching front, I don't have a problem with a defensive system coach like Stevens or Murray. It is easier to get more out of a team by playing a tight defensive system. I would rather they go outside of the "family" but that is me.

 

[awaz]

FYI, my bubble list is not in any particular order other than the order that it came too mind.

haha woops, i thought when you talked about the sliding scale it was a vertical scale?

regardless, you listed them pretty close to the order i would be willing to get rid of them in

So much good stuff.

2. I am less worried about the "lets hope mason can rise to the occasion" than I am in buying out Bryz (or anyone) and then making another over the top move overpaying .

3. The Flyers can really stand to improve on defense. Yes, the corps is not bad when looked at on paper, but they do not match the system that is being run and they are susceptible to the outside and can be forechecked by bigger teams .... That said, a change in system MAY make the blue line look great...or it may make it look worse. I would not be adverse to seeing at least one addition. My caveat being that I would rather it be something along the lines of the Keaton Ellerby/Colton Teubert...high draft pick who hasn't made it move than signing someone for big bucks....

On the coaching front, I don't have a problem with a defensive system coach like Stevens or Murray. It is easier to get more out of a team by playing a tight defensive system. I would rather they go outside of the "family" but that is me.

on the coaching/system stuff.. everyone talks about the need for a #1 dman and how bad the defense is.. but nobody really pinpoints any particular player.. gervais has had a couple bad games.. coburn has had an off season.. but outside of that, it's just 'oh the defense sucked' any time anyone says 'bryz was awful'..

when i look at the potential d-corp for next year, there is no glaring weakness to me..

1-Timonen (maybe a low-end #1)
2-Grossmann (solid)
3-Schenn (probably a high-end #3)
4-Coburn (high-end #4)
5-Meszaros (possible the top of the #5 list)
6-Gervais (high-end #6)

there isn't that guy that jumps off the page and says 'wow he sucks, we can't have him play in an NHL game' or 'he's not good enough to play in that slot'..

they just aren't puck movers outside of timonen. so you can't be looking to push the attack all the time. the forwards have to come back deep in the zone and work to skate the puck up.. and the cycle game has to be better.. be disciplined, chip the puck in to the corner, and go get it.. it's not like the flyers lack the wingers to play that type of system.. you could probably argue that simmonds is one of the best forcheckers in the league.. hartnell is more than adequate.. i think bschenn should be playing wing, and he's a good forechecker.. read is fast and gets after it.. talbot.. fedetenko.. gagne.. all these guys can get after it on the forcheck.

giroux, voracek, hartnell, and bschenn in particular try way too often to score a highlight reel goal.. it doesn't work when teams play defense.. chip it in, go get it, get to the front of the net and muck around.

 

[dspice07]

i think simmonds is most likely safe.

 

[lasgop8]

i think simmonds is most likely safe.

Gervais needs to be put on the gone list

 

[raptorlife4]

Simmonds is a keeper as well as gusty

 

[awaz]

Gervais needs to be put on the gone list

IMO gervais is ok as a 6.. he's being asked to play on the top pair right now and he's not a top pair dman.

 

[lasgop8]

IMO gervais is ok as a 6.. he's being asked to play on the top pair right now and he's not a top pair dman.

When guys come back that should be Gusty's spot so there is no need to keep gervais around

 

[FlyerFinFan]

When guys come back that should be Gusty's spot so there is no need to keep gervais around

The way they get injuries they need to keep 6 backups! Can't toss anyone to the curb. I'm glad that some of the young guys are seeing some ice that's the only thing I can take from all of these injuries

 

[awaz]

When guys come back that should be Gusty's spot so there is no need to keep gervais around

gervais is signed for next year too, so i think he'll be around.. we'll just have to see what slot he's in

gusty has never really impressed me personally.. he had a good game against the devils in the playoffs last year and i thought he looked pretty good in a game here recently, but aside from that i really haven't been impressed.. if you're putting 'the best team possible' out there, i'd put gervais out there over him

 

[awaz]

The way they get injuries they need to keep 6 backups! Can't toss anyone to the curb. I'm glad that some of the young guys are seeing some ice that's the only thing I can take from all of these injuries

agreed.. regardless of my post above this one, i'm glad gusty is getting ice time now.. same for lauridsen.. it can only help them

but i think they might need more than 6 backups.. pronger, bourdon, grossmann, coburn, meszaors.. timonen probably has like 4 broken bones.. walker if you wanna stretch it..

 

[lasgop8]

gervais is signed for next year too, so i think he'll be around.. we'll just have to see what slot he's in

gusty has never really impressed me personally.. he had a good game against the devils in the playoffs last year and i thought he looked pretty good in a game here recently, but aside from that i really haven't been impressed.. if you're putting 'the best team possible' out there, i'd put gervais out there over him

I was on board with gervais early but for the last 2 months he's been terrible even when all our defenseman were in tact and he was playing his regular defensive slot.

 

[lasgop8]

Hopefully we get a few guys in a trade or someone we sign that will push our top 4 down to the 5 and 6 slot That would be ideal.

 

[awaz]

Hopefully we get a few guys in a trade or someone we sign that will push our top 4 down to the 5 and 6 slot That would be ideal.

that would be spending far too much money on D.. they already pay a pretty penny as it is, especially with meszaros making 4 mil for a #5.. i wonder if they will look at buying mesz out instead of briere.. doesn't save as much cap space, but at elast briere dresses every now and then.. cant have a 4 mil cap hit for someone to suit up for 10ish games/season.. especially when you already have pronger's 4.9 on the books for an empy locker

 

[lasgop8]

that would be spending far too much money on D.. they already pay a pretty penny as it is, especially with meszaros making 4 mil for a #5.. i wonder if they will look at buying mesz out instead of briere.. doesn't save as much cap space, but at elast briere dresses every now and then.. cant have a 4 mil cap hit for someone to suit up for 10ish games/season.. especially when you already have pronger's 4.9 on the books for an empy locker

This is true plus at least Briere has other teams that may want to trade for him. I dont know of any teams that were inquiring about Mezz to get on their playoff roster. What the hell happened to mezz he was good offensively and was our best hitter on d while he played.

 

[lasgop8]

Bryzgalov bored at the Jets game today. - YouTube