Automatic 1st Down

[Sharkonabicycle]

The league cares about points and high scoring games, they don't give a rats you know what about a defensive game and it's clearly showing with these rules

Keep reading my post. You'll get there.

 

[redseat]

Keep reading my post. You'll get there.

haha, i'm at work so I am really only able to "read" posts really quickly. my bad

 

[ATL96Steeler]

@Sharkonabicycle

Quick trigger.

We've had this debate on the PI before...I understand, but PI should stay as a spot foul imo. but I would change the definition of PI.

1...PI calls off the ball are picked up...if the QB doesn't not throw you the ball, what is the defender impending?

2...When the ball is in the air, if a WR initiates contact to push off, the defender should be able to grab, etc....I don't mind more contact if the OFC player initiates it. We see far too often a WR push off to get separation and if the defender responds, they get flagged...they need to call the OFC PI, or allow the defend to respond.

3...expand the chuck contact zone to 10 yds.

 

[KnuteRoc]

Don't agree. If you take away automatic first downs from Pass Interference and the like you're giving license to defenses to mug all players the entire game. I'd be ok with those calls being 15 yds or, automatic first down from the LOS rather than spot of the foul, and/or both, but the NFL's game is so fast now that QBs can consistently be under duress within 2 seconds of the snap. That's barely enough time to make two reads; how far can a guy even get off the line in 2 seconds from a standstill? Then consider the 5 yard rule. You'd have DBs jamming or completely mugging receivers within the 5 yards all day long. You can't give defenses much more in their favor or there'll be even more QBs on the bench and shitty @ssed backups coming in for more of the same.

These penalties exist for a reason. Perhaps the better argument is to point to the 5 yard rule, or more accurately, the hand-checking that goes on past five yards and the policing of the 5 yard rule and beyond?

 

[Hank Kingsley]

These are all good suggestions.

But I think Little Bill is right, everything should be reviewable. Even penalties. They do it in World Cup Rugby. They even allow play to roll on and go back and review it.

Some of these penalties like the one on Washington against Greg Olsen yesterday are unbelievably harsh.

Olsen dropped his own head and contact was more to the shoulder anyway.

To take away the big hit and the fumble recovery for a TD really killed Washington.

 

[fastforward]

I just wish the Refs would use a shred of common sense and call the penalties that only affect the game. Nothing is more irksome than some flag thrown on the opposite side of the field for a slight jersey tug during a kick return or a long TD pass.

That would give OTs & DEs free range to play dirty when the run was going to the other side. There would be a lot of hands-to-the-face issues.

 

[fastforward]

I'd like to see the pre-pass contact zone for receivers extended from 5 yards to 10 yards.

Illegal contact shouldn't be an automatic 1st down.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

It's maddening ... I hate seeing offenses get bailed out so dam much in the NFL nowadays .... and were not talking safety issues either, just flat out PUZZY issues by the league.. NFL wants offense, just see it for what it is.. NFL thinks it generates more money seeing touchdown after touchdown... #@$%#!@ stupid azzholes in suits and ties are ruing this great game ...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I know man .... Everything benefits the offense...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Automatic first downs on defensive penalties are stupid. The only penalties that should be automatic first downs are personal fouls. Other than that, give them the penalty yardage and replay the down if it doesn't result in a first.

Very good point...

 

[CCF151]

I wouldn't mind seeing the PI's being only 15 yard penalties, but there has to be a way to stop DB's from autohacking when they know they are beat on a pass that is gonna end up as a TD. I'd say something like they do with personal fouls in college you get a warning then booted for the second, or make a 3 strikes and your out kind of thing. As far as illegal contact I agree it shouldn't be an auto first down unless they completely take the player out of the play.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

That would give OTs & DEs free range to play dirty when the run was going to the other side. There would be a lot of hands-to-the-face issues.

Not really. I said they should use common sense. So if it was a slight jersey tug like I said they could let it go, but if it was something more egregious or dirty they could still flag it.

 

[night]

Worst call in the NFL.

3rd and 23, and a guy off the play tugs on a jersey, not effecting the play at all, yet, Automatic 1st down. How about 5 yards (or even 10) and replay 3rd down.

Calls that piss me off,
1) Defensive Holding (as mentioned above), automatic 1st Down.
2) Some redonkulous celebration penalty, reallllly, we as fans love this shit. Taunting is different.
3) The WHOLE offsides, encroachment, illegal procedure etc.
A) if you move first on the OL, it is a penalty.
B) if you cross the LOS from the D without any O movement, it is a penalty, regardless of the O.
C) same as B, if you on D cross the LOS, that's it. Play over. 5 yard penalty. No getting back for free.
D) No fucking free plays. If a penalty has occurred at the LOS, stop the play NOW.
4) A guy in the neutral zone is called "every now and then" kind of like NBA FT violations.....joke.
5) The under thrown 40+ yard pass that is "Uncatchable" yet the O player comes back and hits the defender, and it is a 40+ yard penalty.
6) 12 men on the field, is that an automatic 1st down???? Not sure, but as mentioned before, no automatic 1st downs. I hate that. Is there a difference between actually playing with 12 guys, versus the 12th guy is trying to get off the field, but is .5 second short, even though he didn't participate.
7) The 'football move' rule. c'mon.....make a clear rule on this. And make each rule clear, such as...
A) In the field of play.
B) On the sideline.
C) In the endzone, the CJ play, cmon man, that was a TD.
D) the Dez play, was that one of the above???? (A) not (C)
There CAN be separate rules for each, (Maybe the same) just decide NFL.
8) I LOVE the NFL, I would be great in the Front Office, I'll even take only 700,000 a year. lol.

Please provide your thoughts on ANY of the 8. Specify the # of the 8. I like #8, vote me in please. lol.

Pretty much every penalty on the defense is an automatic first down. The one I hate the most is the roughing the kicker penalty. If a team barely touches the kicker and the kicker dives there is no reason why it should be an automatic first down. I realize that hunting kickers shouldn't be incentivized but the kicker penalties are pushing the envelope too much at this point.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Pretty much every penalty on the defense is an automatic first down. The one I hate the most is the roughing the kicker penalty. If a team barely touches the kicker and the kicker dives there is no reason why it should be an automatic first down. I realize that hunting kickers shouldn't be incentivized but the kicker penalties are pushing the envelope too much at this point.

They already have two different calls for that: one is the "roughing the kicker" which is 15 yards and automatic first down, the other is "running into the kicker" which is only 5 yards and not an automatic first down.

 

[night]

They already have two different calls for that: one is the "roughing the kicker" which is 15 yards and automatic first down, the other is "running into the kicker" which is only 5 yards and not an automatic first down.

It seems like they call the automatic first down a lot when it should have been the 5 yard penalty. Then there are times when it shouldn't be a penalty at all, but it still ends up being one.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

It seems like they call the automatic first down a lot when it should have been the 5 yard penalty. Then there are times when it shouldn't be a penalty at all, but it still ends up being one.

Part of the problem is that kickers are notorious divers. They act like they've been shot if you barely brush by them. The NFL should adopt the NHL's diving rules and apply it to kickers, WR's and QB's who purposely embellish tiny hits.

 

[night]

Part of the problem is that kickers are notorious divers. They act like they've been shot if you barely brush by them. The NFL should adopt the NHL's diving rules and apply it to kickers, WR's and QB's who purposely embellish tiny hits.

I agree, that would be great. As it is right now though...it seems broken.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I'd like to see the pre-pass contact zone for receivers extended from 5 yards to 10 yards.

Illegal contact shouldn't be an automatic 1st down.

Expanding the legal chuck zone to 10 yds is a big one...Illegal contact inside 5 yds should be a 1st...no auto 1st.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Pretty much every penalty on the defense is an automatic first down. The one I hate the most is the roughing the kicker penalty. If a team barely touches the kicker and the kicker dives there is no reason why it should be an automatic first down. I realize that hunting kickers shouldn't be incentivized but the kicker penalties are pushing the envelope too much at this point.

Tough one because those guys are exposed when their feet are off the ground....at the very least, I think the play should be reviewed when the 15 yarder is called.

 

[redseat]

the league also needs to better define "holding"

Many times a game a team gets called for a hold, yet it's the same they've done all game and the opposition is doing the same thing. Mainly when it comes to the OL