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nefansince75

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Unemployed or free agent, he's now a free agent. Every college senior is unemployed and not under contract so why couldn't a team just sign an unemployed college senior. Something just doesn't smell right.

The NFL and the NCAA have an agreement that amongst other things, dictates amount of time between high school and NFL, and when and how college kids are recruited/drafted.
It's also part of the collective bargaining agreement between the league and players union. Even though the seniors are not in the union, all their provisions applies to them since joining the union is a condition of playing in the NFL.
 

BigKen

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"Under contract" means they're employed and getting paid.
Free Agents got their last paycheck during the month of their last game. Not one NFL player who's contract is up has received a paycheck in March. Only members of the Bucs and Chiefs got a paycheck in February. No one is getting paid unless they're under contract and that contract stipulates that they receive a check every month. If upcoming free agents are 'under contract' it's only the league that see those contracts as anything but toilet paper.

My guess is that if asked, every one of the 2021 free agents to be will tell you that they are a free agent now.

I know the league rules and the CBA say that the contracts are valid until the league new year starts, I just think that the same rule should apply to released players who can side step and sign before anyone else. Sort of an unfair labor law.
 

nefansince75

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My guess is that if asked, every one of the 2021 free agents to be will tell you that they are a free agent now.
Guess all you like about whether they will give a correct answer or not. If they are under contract they are NOT a free agent. If their contract end date says some date in the future, whether tomorrow or March 17, they are under contract and not a free agent.

One might say that for all intents and purposes they are free agents since they are no longer under contract to play a game... but that is only almost correct. Teams, per the collective bargaining agreement (for those not familiar, is also a part of every contract), have exclusive rights to try and negotiate another contract without any interference of other teams. That's a huge benefit to the team and very much an active part of the contract until that two day period before then end of the contract.
 

BigKen

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One might say that for all intents and purposes they are free agents since they are no longer under contract to play a game... but that is only almost correct. Teams, per the collective bargaining agreement (for those not familiar, is also a part of every contract), have exclusive rights to try and negotiate another contract without any interference of other teams. That's a huge benefit to the team and very much an active part of the contract until that two day period before then end of the contract.
All under typical circumstances and normal conditions. 2021 ain't normal and 18 teams are trying to figure out how thay will pay their draft choices, let alone their players. Money in the NFL for free agents and some teams will be about as plentiful as pubic hair on a 7 year old girl.
 

Yankee Traveler

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Free Agents got their last paycheck during the month of their last game. Not one NFL player who's contract is up has received a paycheck in March. Only members of the Bucs and Chiefs got a paycheck in February. No one is getting paid unless they're under contract and that contract stipulates that they receive a check every month. If upcoming free agents are 'under contract' it's only the league that see those contracts as anything but toilet paper.

My guess is that if asked, every one of the 2021 free agents to be will tell you that they are a free agent now.

I know the league rules and the CBA say that the contracts are valid until the league new year starts, I just think that the same rule should apply to released players who can side step and sign before anyone else. Sort of an unfair labor law.

I fully agree, it is a grey (gray?) area.
I am also not sure what the contract details were for Justin Britt, whether he was a UFA this year or had 3 years remaining on his contract.
If he was an UFA then it would seem very odd and maybe against the rules to "Cut" him two weeks before the league year whan all the team needs to do is inform him they will not extend any offer.
On the other hand, if he had 1 year or 5 years remaining, what's the difference between being cut now, the middle of December, or the end of August?
If anything, they did him a favor and he gets a leg up on any UFA center.
 

nefansince75

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I fully agree, it is a grey (gray?) area.
I am also not sure what the contract details were for Justin Britt, whether he was a UFA this year or had 3 years remaining on his contract.
If he was an UFA then it would seem very odd and maybe against the rules to "Cut" him two weeks before the league year whan all the team needs to do is inform him they will not extend any offer.
On the other hand, if he had 1 year or 5 years remaining, what's the difference between being cut now, the middle of December, or the end of August?
If anything, they did him a favor and he gets a leg up on any UFA center.
It's not a gray area at all because it's clearly spelled out in the collective bargaining agreement. Nobody is a free agent unless they are not under contract with the lone exception of the two day negotiation period just before the contract expires. No doubt it's been a crazy year, but not with respect to free agency rules, unless new rules are adopted as a modification to the collective bargaining agreement, of which I know none.
 

BigKen

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It's not a gray area at all because it's clearly spelled out in the collective bargaining agreement. Nobody is a free agent unless they are not under contract with the lone exception of the two day negotiation period just before the contract expires. No doubt it's been a crazy year, but not with respect to free agency rules, unless new rules are adopted as a modification to the collective bargaining agreement, of which I know none.
I get it. So why don't players ask to be cut when they've played their last game and immediately become a free agent?? Or is that illegal??
If I'm David Andrews, I'd be pissed off if I was intending to test the market and some asshole gets cut a week before free agency and grabs a position on team and gets a big contract. I'd be saying, "Fuck union dues" ain't watching out for me.
 

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It's not a gray area at all because it's clearly spelled out in the collective bargaining agreement. Nobody is a free agent unless they are not under contract with the lone exception of the two day negotiation period just before the contract expires. No doubt it's been a crazy year, but not with respect to free agency rules, unless new rules are adopted as a modification to the collective bargaining agreement, of which I know none.
Yeah, I get all that.
Really splitting hairs here.
It's a gray area because what's to stop a team from cutting a player that will be an UFA 2 weeks before the league year just to give a loyal player a 2 week jump on finding a new home?
 

Southieinnc

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I get it. So why don't players ask to be cut when they've played their last game and immediately become a free agent?? Or is that illegal??
If I'm David Andrews, I'd be pissed off if I was intending to test the market and some asshole gets cut a week before free agency and grabs a position on team and gets a big contract. I'd be saying, "Fuck union dues" ain't watching out for me.
The Patriots have many times made "mercy cuts"
If they know they are going to release a player or a player doesn't think he'll be able to make the team.
The Patriots will usually honor a request to be released "immediately" for well respected veterans
 

nefansince75

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I get it. So why don't players ask to be cut when they've played their last game and immediately become a free agent?? Or is that illegal??
If I'm David Andrews, I'd be pissed off if I was intending to test the market and some asshole gets cut a week before free agency and grabs a position on team and gets a big contract. I'd be saying, "Fuck union dues" ain't watching out for me.
It's complicated and is truly a chess match. All things being equal, cutting a free agent ASAP would be good, but there's a lot more at play including more often a team wants to renegotiate with their own pending free agents while capitalizing on the vagueness of the entire market to help get a better deal. I know there are other bank shots at play here too like doing so gives ab advantage to all the other teams too, and who wants to give the competition any advantage.
 

BigKen

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It's complicated and is truly a chess match. All things being equal, cutting a free agent ASAP would be good, but there's a lot more at play including more often a team wants to renegotiate with their own pending free agents while capitalizing on the vagueness of the entire market to help get a better deal. I know there are other bank shots at play here too like doing so gives ab advantage to all the other teams too, and who wants to give the competition any advantage.
True. BUT, In this year's market, there are teams that will not be able to sign their own player because their in cap hell. There are a hundred rumors about the Saints and the fact that may have to cut two defensive starter just to get to the cap. They've been redoing contracts since early February and they're still almost $30M over. There are a lot of players who just will not renegotiate a contract and feel that they can get a bigger one with the jets, Jags ior even the Patriots.
 

BigKen

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Very few players are Compensable. Otherwise the draft would take at least a week.

So, how do compensatory picks work? Teams are awarded compensatory draft picks between Rounds 3 and 7 based upon a league formula that takes into account the following criteria for players who left the team to sign elsewhere as free agents: average salary per year (APY), snap count and postseason awards. Apr 29, 2020
 

cdumler7

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I get it. So why don't players ask to be cut when they've played their last game and immediately become a free agent?? Or is that illegal??
If I'm David Andrews, I'd be pissed off if I was intending to test the market and some asshole gets cut a week before free agency and grabs a position on team and gets a big contract. I'd be saying, "Fuck union dues" ain't watching out for me.

Well there are quite a few reasons this doesn't happen on a more regular basis.

1) As others have said Comp pick formula does play into this. Have to remember it is not just the players that could net you a comp pick but those extras lost help in the formula as well because you cannot get any comp picks if you sign more players than that were lost. So cutting all those guys hurts a team.
2) If the player is good enough to get a decent contract then NFL teams like to take their time and see if any team would be interested in a trade. Can at least get a 6th or 7th round pick sometimes like the Titans getting a 7th for Jurrell Casey last year instead of just flat out cutting him.
3) There is a huge battle going on right now between owners and players. NFL players are seeing the kind of power that NBA players have and want that. Owners see this power grab and worry it will destroy the NFL like it has in some ways with the NBA and their numbers being way down.
4) Teams wait to release or wait for them to hit the market because they want to see what is available sometimes before making a decision on a certain position. You like to see who gets signed that maybe you did not expect which can change what you do with your own guys.

There are more reasons than this but these at least highlight some of the bigger issues of why what you stated above doesn't happen.
 

cdumler7

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Pardon my ignorance but then why would anybody cut a player before free agency?

Sometimes it is to free up cap space. Lots of teams are having to cut players because they are over the cap. You have to be under the cap (top-51 contracts) before the start of the new league year (March 17th). All players cut though have years left on their deals so they would never have factored into the comp pick formula anyway.
 

nefansince75

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True. BUT, In this year's market, there are teams that will not be able to sign their own player because their in cap hell. There are a hundred rumors about the Saints and the fact that may have to cut two defensive starter just to get to the cap. They've been redoing contracts since early February and they're still almost $30M over. There are a lot of players who just will not renegotiate a contract and feel that they can get a bigger one with the jets, Jags ior even the Patriots.
Just because they can't sign them doesn't mean they would want to make it easier for another team to sign them. Heck in theory the could trade these guys. A team could trade for these guys to gain the exclusive negotiation period. Of course that would be very unlikely to happen... But I doubt any team is wanting to make things easier for other teams unless some how some value is returned.
 
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