Armchair GMs...check this out.

[Microwahevo]

And where do you get this inside information? I've never seen one report saying anything at all to that effect. Post the links.

"There are a couple of reasons why Matt Millen failed, but none of them were due to the scouting staff. One of the most important aspects of a good front office is consensus building and cohesion. Millen provided none of that and did a lot of damage to the structure that was in place. Millen was known for overruling the scouts, despite them spending hundreds of hours researching their players while Millen would spend a couple of hours on each prospect. Millen drafted players that his coaches didn’t want to work with (Joey Harrington and Drew Stanton,) didn’t fit the scheme (Charles Rogers and Mike Williams,) or on one occasion one coach wanted to work with."

Lions Gab: NFL front offices are central figures on draft day | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Has some quotes from the former Lions GM as well as the Giants GM. Basically, Millen never put the work in required of a GM.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Micro says he saw a 30/30 where Millen's son said everyone told Millen aware was a beast, but Millen took Williams instead.

TP calls it a winning post.

Then Swarm posts proof from the horses mouth that Millen was actually talked into that awful pick.

Nothing. In fact, he ignores it.

Today I stop beating my head against the wall w these two. They're literally in love romantically with Mayhew.

We've been down this path once before and the entire board turned into a bag of shit. Back it down, you have had (as has many others, myself included) more than their fair share of posts that others didn't like.

When it starts down the path of that last sentence is when shit starts picking up steam and away we go into this board being a waste of time to even read. That comment even flies against a statement you made not that long ago that lead to a massive improvement in this board.

I don't think anyone could be happy about this offseason, I honestly think its the worst I can ever remember.
And that includes one that had the death of a very promising lineman run over while weed whipping his yard who blocked for Barry no less. Emotions are high right now and lord knows opinions vary on the front office, especially with whats gone on (or hasn't gone on) this offseason.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Yeah, Millen would have no reason whatsoever to be less than completely honest about his fuck ups... oh wait, no he wouldn't.

It's pretty funny that you two are leaning on quotes from Millen to support your argument. Millen. Matt fucking Millen. C'Mon!

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Yeah, Millen would have no reason whatsoever to be less than completely honest about his fuck ups... oh wait, no he wouldn't.

It's pretty funny that you two are leaning on quotes from Millen to support your argument. Millen. Matt fucking Millen. C'Mon!

Hold on here, what are you then leaning on to support your argument? Is it just your PERCEPTION of how you think things went?

The basis to support your position is that a guy who in the very same article takes complete ownership of the final decision, absolutely says its his fault, is just lying that there was anyone else talking about taking Williams.

Holy shit is that fucking weak TP. C'mon!!

 

[tpaulus_2]

Hold on here, what are you then leaning on to support your argument? Is it just your PERCEPTION of how you think things went?

The basis to support your position is that a guy who in the very same article takes complete ownership of the final decision, absolutely says its his fault, is just lying that there was anyone else talking about taking Williams.

Holy shit is that fucking weak TP. C'mon!!

Lions Gab: NFL front offices are central figures on draft day | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

 

[tpaulus_2]

Hold on here, what are you then leaning on to support your argument? Is it just your PERCEPTION of how you think things went?

The basis to support your position is that a guy who in the very same article takes complete ownership of the final decision, absolutely says its his fault, is just lying that there was anyone else talking about taking Williams.

Holy shit is that fucking weak TP. C'mon!!

So which is it? Is Millen telling the truth about being talked out of Ware, but then lying when he says it was completely his fault, thus exonerating Mayhew from being blamed?

Can't have it both ways there- you're picking and choosing Millen's quotes as they suit your argument. Can't tout the words "right out of the horse's mouth" when they support your argument, but then ignore his quotes from the very same article that supports my argument...

 

[TwoCents22]

I want to hate Mayhew. He's had some mistakes. A lot. He's drafted red flag players too many times, whiffed on playmaker positions, fucked up the cap, on and on we can go, right? If any player was ranked 18th in his 7th year, we'd all be calling for him to be replaced.

Unfortunately, I need logic to back me up. GM isn't a position where you use stats to verify success. You use success to verify success. And yes you have to take into account where the team started, and no I can't hold him accountable for Millen. He started with a roster very worthy of their 0-16 record. Look at the roster from last year, drastically improved. End of discussion. I can't sit here and say he needs to be replaced looking at it from that aspect.

That's why this year is very important. We will be able to see how much, if any, impact on our contending roster of last season was influenced by one of the best defensive players in the game. The guy people claim Mayhew was lucky to draft with a #2 pick.

 

[Rollingthndr]

Jerry Jones at 32 is a fucking joke. How often do the Cowboys suck? Seriously, people are idiots when it comes to bashing Dallas and Jones. (Like OL weekly during Power Rankings.)

Reggie Mckenzie anyone?

 

[Rollingthndr]

I can't believe people pay Millen to come on TV and analyze football.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

So which is it? Is Millen telling the truth about being talked out of Ware, but then lying when he says it was completely his fault, thus exonerating Mayhew from being blamed?

Can't have it both ways there- you're picking and choosing Millen's quotes as they suit your argument. Can't tout the words "right out of the horse's mouth" when they support your argument, but then ignore his quotes from the very same article that supports my argument...

I will never be able to understand the logic you employ sometimes to try and very weakly back statements you make. The guy took ownership of the pick because he had the final fucking say in the matter. That has absolutely, positively NOTHING at all that exonerates Mayhew from anything!!! He could very well have been one of the voices in his ear talking about taking Williams.

And in case you didn't notice the team made a lot more picks that busted other than just the ones mentioned in that article. Mayhew isn't a scout, so if Millen did go against the scouts opinions that also does zero to exonerate Mayhew, who might very well have been on board with those picks.

Did you send Micro a thank you for at least finding something that supports the position you originally stated about the notorious Millen for being thick headed? It was clearly one you didn't have when you spouted off your perception as a fact and told me my view was a reach if you did say!!

There's one article saying that people were in his ear talking about one selection, there is nothing at all to say that that wasn't the case with other picks as well, and one article saying Millen often went against the recommendations of others.

You have absolutely nothing, nor do I, that Mayhew wasn't 100% on board with each and every pick made during that time frame. Hell, he could have been the guy that shouted from the back of the room to take Calhoun. In fact, the argument you often make that other GM's miss as much as Mayhew could just as easily be made that you don't know if other war rooms haven't had similar things happen. You can't say that whispers in a GM's ear might have also lead them to change their original plans but the results were simply better.

Not a chance I defend Millen as anything other than complete shit but Tyson ask for logical reasons as to why you don't like the guy. Well if you can't see the fact that he held a senior level position, was absolutely part of the creation of the draft boards and FA discussions, certainly had the ear of Millen to discuss team plans, has more than his share of very questionable picks of his own as GM that were disastrous, has had a horrible offseason, and in 11 years while he has held a senior level position the Lions have two wild card playoff losses to show as being anything other than a logical reason to dislike the guy then I give up trying to discuss anything with you.

I would say that only the Bills, Browns, Dolphins, and Raiders have less to show for success during the same time frame. Probably a team like the Bucs and Titans might be similar to the Lions lack of success. That's my logical justification for why I want him shit canned. I will bet he never holds another senior level position in the NFL again once he isn't with the Lions.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

He should. Millen made all the picks. I remember the 30 for 30 on Matt Millen(maybe it wasn't 30 for 30 but it was a show about his football/FO career) and his son was quoted as saying he and everyone else on the staff were telling him what a badass Demarcus Ware was going to be. Said this months and weeks leading to the draft. He chose Mike Williams instead. Millen's son said his dad did what he wanted, regardless of what people thought.

The Millen years were all on Millen, especially after hearing that.

Are you sure that is what you watched? I am almost positive it is the other way around. I thought Ware was who Millen wanted and he was talked into drafting Williams.

I do agree -- while Mayhew was on the staff, Millen made the final call, so I can't point fingers at Mayhew for Millen's decisions.

 

[Mebert]

Millen also went on PFT to claim that he called the Raiders to warn them not to draft Jamarcus Russell.

Based on records before and after Millen I don't think you can blame Mayhew for those years. After he took over the team has gone from worst ever to 2 playoffs in 3 years. The problem is I think we are at Mayhew's ceiling, he is kinda like Schwartz was as a coach, good enough to get the ball rolling, but not good enough to get the team over the hump.

It is time for Mayhew to go, but I don't think you can discount the team improvement during his tenure. He is a middle of the road GM that brought the Lions to middle of the road.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Are you sure that is what you watched? I am almost positive it is the other way around. I thought Ware was who Millen wanted and he was talked into drafting Williams.

I do agree -- while Mayhew was on the staff, Millen made the final call, so I can't point fingers at Mayhew for Millen's decisions.

I need to start reading the entire thread before responding. Sorry about this post -- you guys have been talking about it already.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I don't think you can blame Mayhew for those years

I am not blaming him exclusively. But to suggest that he is held harmless and shares no responsibility is just ridiculous IMO. He should NEVER have been promoted in the first place and will NEVER deliver a championship (IMO).

He was generously ranked 18th on that list which was before the 2014 draft (its early but let's just say its not off to a great looking start) and before he lost the #1 FA this year and has signed absolutely nobody. (in his defense he did sign Tate in there).

For the record, I believe there were several GM's listed behind him that simply don't have the same tenure to have turned their teams around. Millenhew didn't immediately turn the team around either.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I will never be able to understand the logic you employ sometimes to try and very weakly back statements you make. The guy took ownership of the pick because he had the final fucking say in the matter. That has absolutely, positively NOTHING at all that exonerates Mayhew from anything!!! He could very well have been one of the voices in his ear talking about taking Williams.

And in case you didn't notice the team made a lot more picks that busted other than just the ones mentioned in that article. Mayhew isn't a scout, so if Millen did go against the scouts opinions that also does zero to exonerate Mayhew, who might very well have been on board with those picks.

Did you send Micro a thank you for at least finding something that supports the position you originally stated about the notorious Millen for being thick headed? It was clearly one you didn't have when you spouted off your perception as a fact and told me my view was a reach if you did say!!

There's one article saying that people were in his ear talking about one selection, there is nothing at all to say that that wasn't the case with other picks as well, and one article saying Millen often went against the recommendations of others.

You have absolutely nothing, nor do I, that Mayhew wasn't 100% on board with each and every pick made during that time frame. Hell, he could have been the guy that shouted from the back of the room to take Calhoun. In fact, the argument you often make that other GM's miss as much as Mayhew could just as easily be made that you don't know if other war rooms haven't had similar things happen. You can't say that whispers in a GM's ear might have also lead them to change their original plans but the results were simply better.

Not a chance I defend Millen as anything other than complete shit but Tyson ask for logical reasons as to why you don't like the guy. Well if you can't see the fact that he held a senior level position, was absolutely part of the creation of the draft boards and FA discussions, certainly had the ear of Millen to discuss team plans, has more than his share of very questionable picks of his own as GM that were disastrous, has had a horrible offseason, and in 11 years while he has held a senior level position the Lions have two wild card playoff losses to show as being anything other than a logical reason to dislike the guy then I give up trying to discuss anything with you.

I would say that only the Bills, Browns, Dolphins, and Raiders have less to show for success during the same time frame. Probably a team like the Bucs and Titans might be similar to the Lions lack of success. That's my logical justification for why I want him shit canned. I will bet he never holds another senior level position in the NFL again once he isn't with the Lions.

 

[lionstop1]

Ok, Mayhew doesnt deserve any blame for the Millen era. Thats taking it a little too far.

And how is it Mayhew's fault if the team makes it to the playoffs and loses?

 

[lionstop1]

Ranking him 18 is pretty damn fair if you ask me. There's so many factors to consider as to why a GM is a good one or not. All of these guys walk into different situations. For Mayhew, inheriting this team had to be really bad in the beginning. Theres no way around it and to say otherwise would be completely unrealistic. Trial and error should be expected from a guy that has never been in the position.

 

[broncosmitty]

We've been down this path once before and the entire board turned into a bag of shit. Back it down, you have had (as has many others, myself included) more than their fair share of posts that others didn't like.

When it starts down the path of that last sentence is when shit starts picking up steam and away we go into this board being a waste of time to even read. That comment even flies against a statement you made not that long ago that lead to a massive improvement in this board.

I don't think anyone could be happy about this offseason, I honestly think its the worst I can ever remember.
And that includes one that had the death of a very promising lineman run over while weed whipping his yard who blocked for Barry no less. Emotions are high right now and lord knows opinions vary on the front office, especially with whats gone on (or hasn't gone on) this offseason.

I love it when you tell people what to do....... Like a bause.

 

[broncosmitty]

I can't believe people pay Millen to come on TV and analyze football.

Before he figuratively fucked us all in the ass, I liked him as an announcer, a lot.

Especially after he went to ref camp or whatever.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Ok, Mayhew doesnt deserve any blame for the Millen era. Thats taking it a little too far.

And how is it Mayhew's fault if the team makes it to the playoffs and loses?

It's not. My point is that during his tenure in a senior level position the team has very little to show in terms of accomplishments. I would say there are only a small number of teams who have accomplished less in the same amount of time.

Let me ask a question. Other than me does anyone else see the GM as the QB off the field? If so, how long would you choose to stick with the 18th ranked QB in the league and expect to win a championship?