Are the penguins a favorite to win the Stanley cup now?

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Okay I'm fine with that beef, but you get my point that people have been proclaiming the Sharks as true contenders for the last 3-5 years and they get bounced every year

And I would argue that Boston has had more success than Pittsburgh, since winning the cup - heck, even the Flyers have had more success than the Penguins since that 09 cup(Flyers got to a cup Finals and were the only team in the entire NHL from the 2010 playoffs to the 2012 playoffs to have reached the 2nd round of the playoffs all three years) - also, the Kings have have really been making a strong case too as they've made the playoffs each of the last four seasons and had that great cup run and then a strong playoff showing again this past playoffs

In terms of success the last four seasons(09-10 to 12-13), I would rate as the following:
1) Blackhawks(Two cups in last four seasons)
2) Bruins(One cup win, two cup appearances in last four seasons)
3) Kings(One cup win, 25 playoff wins in last two seasons[most in NHL], four consecutive playoff appearances)
4) Flyers(One cup appearance, reached the second round three consecutive playoffs from 2010-2012[only team to do so in NHL])
5) Penguins(reached ECF in 2013, home ice advantage in every series they've played the last four playoffs)

Very few other teams have had really good four year stretches than those five teams

Flyers?

 

[raptorlife4]

MAF still looms
better not play the FLyers

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

MAF is 2-1 against the Flyers all-time in the playoffs tho.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Last 5 years would include 2009 when Pittsburgh won a Cup so I wouldn't put the Flyers above them. I can buy the Bruins for sure and the Kings as well.

I was talking about SINCE the Penguins won the cup, so the four seasons since, not that season included

 

[raptorlife4]

MAF is 2-1 against the Flyers all-time in the playoffs tho.

and the flyers are now in his head

 

[element1286]

Okay I'm fine with that beef, but you get my point that people have been proclaiming the Sharks as true contenders for the last 3-5 years and they get bounced every year

And I would argue that Boston has had more success than Pittsburgh, since winning the cup - heck, even the Flyers have had more success than the Penguins since that 09 cup(Flyers got to a cup Finals and were the only team in the entire NHL from the 2010 playoffs to the 2012 playoffs to have reached the 2nd round of the playoffs all three years) - also, the Kings have have really been making a strong case too as they've made the playoffs each of the last four seasons and had that great cup run and then a strong playoff showing again this past playoffs

In terms of success the last four seasons(09-10 to 12-13), I would rate as the following:
1) Blackhawks(Two cups in last four seasons)
2) Bruins(One cup win, two cup appearances in last four seasons)
3) Kings(One cup win, 25 playoff wins in last two seasons[most in NHL], four consecutive playoff appearances)
4) Flyers(One cup appearance, reached the second round three consecutive playoffs from 2010-2012[only team to do so in NHL])
5) Penguins(reached ECF in 2013, home ice advantage in every series they've played the last four playoffs)

Very few other teams have had really good four year stretches than those five teams

So even after not accounting for the their two cup appearances and one win by using an arbitrary end point after they both occurred, they are still one of the top 5 teams as far as playoff success since then?

And this is supposed to be why you don't believe they can do it this year. Seems like a strange argument.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Flyers & Pens are always in each other's heads.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

I was talking about SINCE the Penguins won the cup, so the four seasons since, not that season included

I just don't think the Flyers should be considered the most successful non-Cup winning team, and why is the cutoff at 4 years? How convenient we cutoff the Pens Cup win as if it doesn't even count.

 

[Cobiemonster]

So even after not accounting for the their two cup appearances and one win by using an arbitrary end point after they both occurred, they are still one of the top 5 teams as far as playoff success since then?

And this is supposed to be why you don't believe they can do it this year. Seems like a strange argument.

Teams like the Rangers, Caps, Sharks, Sens, Red Wings, Habs, Ducks, Preds, Coyotes, Canucks, Blues and Devils are either not as good talent wise as the Penguins or they haven't made deep enough runs consistently and have had troubles in the playoffs just as much or even more than them, that's why I have the Penguins fifth, because at least they've been able to get home ice advantage for those playoff series and they've set theirselves up to at least have a better chance than those other teams - some of those teams I listed have been in and out of the playoffs the last four seasons and some of those teams have had just as many failures as Pittsburgh and have just simply not gotten it done in the playoffs

Really, what it's all about is that the Penguins are 5th by default, because those other teams really aren't worthy to be ahead of them since they've done next to nothing in the playoffs the last four playoffs(Devils made Cup Finals but have been out of the playoffs twice also) - maybe one or two of those teams can take a leap at some point, but that's how I look at it

I look at it as a what have you done for me lately - you have to prove to me that you are a legitimate contender - why waste your time saying teams like the Caps, Sharks, Rangers and the Pens are true cup contenders like people have said in the past about those teams, when they haven't proved it - they're not worthy of that consideration until they do it - four years of failures in the playoffs is a long time, I know it sounds harsh but until they prove to me they can do it again, I'm not wasting my time calling them the favorite to win it - if they had won a cup maybe two years ago, I could see people's point, but it's been a little while since winning a cup

I compare this to people who say that Tom Brady and the Pats are favorites to win the Super Bowl every year when it's been almost 9 calendar years since he's won one - why do people continue to say they're the odds on favorites when he hasn't done it in that long? Yeah, he's a tremendous player, and usually, he's not the problem for why they haven't gotten it done(like Crosby), but at the end of the day, they haven't gotten it done in a while, so let's cool it maybe and wait until they do it again to say or feel that they are favorites? That's all I'm saying - I'm not someone who would feel confident in saying they're favorites when they haven't done it in a while, they need to right their wrongs first before me feeling like they can do it

 

[Cobiemonster]

I just don't think the Flyers should be considered the most successful non-Cup winning team, and why is the cutoff at 4 years? How convenient we cutoff the Pens Cup win as if it doesn't even count.

Because my whole point to this thing is that since the Penguins won the cup, look at the other teams around the league that have won and ask yourself, are the Penguins really favorites to win the cup over teams like Chicago, Boston and LA, considering what those teams have done more recently? Penguins have had more wrongs than rights in that time frame than teams like the other three I mentioned, those three teams in my honest opinion are more built for the playoffs and you've seen over the last three or four playoffs that you need a rock solid goaltender and a strong defense - Penguins have not had that the last four seasons since winning the cup, it happens in spurts, but when it matters most, they don't get it and that's why they've been knocked out - they have to prove again that they can do it - Chicago, Boston and LA will always be built for the cup because they stuck with their plan and understood what got them to that point - yeah the Penguins won the cup in 09 but ever since they have not made the necessary adjustments to beat those teams when it matters the most

The Flyers have three more playoffs wins in the last four playoffs(23 to 20) and if it wasn't for Chris Pronger's terrible injury, they would be much better off and you guys know that - the Penguins don't have a Chris Pronger and at least the Flyers knew that in order to win the cup, they had to strengthen the defense and while they didn't win one, they had the right idea - Chicago has Keith/Seabrook, Kings have Drew Doughty, Bruins have Chara - Letang imo is not better than any of those guys and the Penguins have not made the necessary adjustments to be able to beat teams like that

Also, the Flyers have had MUCH more success against the Penguins since the Penguins won the cup because the Flyers made adjustments and knew they needed to match up better against the Penguins - you don't see the Penguins making the moves to try and beat teams like Boston and whoever else maybe, you haven't seen them make a move to bring in a guy that can match-up better against the likes of Chara, etc

To the gist of what someone else was pointing out about the Penguins core, yeah, they've had the same core that won the cup, but maybe part of that core is stale and they need to replace one or two guys in order to match-up better against the teams they know they need to beat in order to win it all? For example, maybe trading Letang and someone else in order to get a guy that they know will be a difference maker when they need to beat the teams they really have to beat? Maybe teams have caught up to the Pens and know that the Pens aren't making personnel adjustments in order to beat those teams, so they can do the same things over and over and know the Pens can't win with that group again?

Penguins are a hell of a talented team, don't get me wrong, but this is how I really feel about their situation, and sometimes, people don't look deep enough into it

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Because my whole point to this thing is that since the Penguins won the cup, look at the other teams around the league that have won and ask yourself, are the Penguins really favorites to win the cup over teams like Chicago, Boston and LA, considering what those teams have done more recently? Penguins have had more wrongs than rights in that time frame than teams like the other three I mentioned, those three teams in my honest opinion are more built for the playoffs and you've seen over the last three or four playoffs that you need a rock solid goaltender and a strong defense - Penguins have not had that the last four seasons since winning the cup, it happens in spurts, but when it matters most, they don't get it and that's why they've been knocked out - they have to prove again that they can do it - Chicago, Boston and LA will always be built for the cup because they stuck with their plan and understood what got them to that point - yeah the Penguins won the cup in 09 but ever since they have not made the necessary adjustments to beat those teams when it matters the most

The Flyers have three more playoffs wins in the last four playoffs(23 to 20) and if it wasn't for Chris Pronger's terrible injury, they would be much better off and you guys know that - the Penguins don't have a Chris Pronger and at least the Flyers knew that in order to win the cup, they had to strengthen the defense and while they didn't win one, they had the right idea - Chicago has Keith/Seabrook, Kings have Drew Doughty, Bruins have Chara - Letang imo is not better than any of those guys and the Penguins have not made the necessary adjustments to be able to beat teams like that

Also, the Flyers have had MUCH more success against the Penguins since the Penguins won the cup because the Flyers made adjustments and knew they needed to match up better against the Penguins - you don't see the Penguins making the moves to try and beat teams like Boston and whoever else maybe, you haven't seen them make a move to bring in a guy that can match-up better against the likes of Chara, etc

To the gist of what someone else was pointing out about the Penguins core, yeah, they've had the same core that won the cup, but maybe part of that core is stale and they need to replace one or two guys in order to match-up better against the teams they know they need to beat in order to win it all? For example, maybe trading Letang and someone else in order to get a guy that they know will be a difference maker when they need to beat the teams they really have to beat? Maybe teams have caught up to the Pens and know that the Pens aren't making personnel adjustments in order to beat those teams, so they can do the same things over and over and know the Pens can't win with that group again?

Penguins are a hell of a talented team, don't get me wrong, but this is how I really feel about their situation, and sometimes, people don't look deep enough into it

I'm fine with saying that the Blackhawks, Bruins, & Kings have accomplished more in the past 4 years, but the Flyers? Making the Stanley Cup Finals in 2010 was great, but making the SCF in 2010 isn't more impressive than actually winning the Cup in 2009. I don't think the Flyers have had that much more success against the Pens since 2010. Flyers are 11-8-4 against the Pens since the Pens won the Cup (that would make the Pens 12-7-1 against the Flyers during that time); they're 2-3-1 against he Pens the last 6 games. I would say there's some Flyer bias going on to make it seem the Flyers are better than the Pens over the past few years. BTW, hope you realize Pens have been dealing with countless injuries to their core since they won their Cup, I think that has sort of messed up chemistry. Keep in mind the Flyers haven't gotten to the SCF since Pronger went down, nor have they advanced beyond the 2nd round since they traded Richards & Carter. Also, having to buy out their goalie and fire their coach doesn't help their case IMO. Not bashing the Flyers, I understand the situation, and they've done well for the obstacles they've had to overcome. At the same time, cutting off the timeline to discount the Pens Cup and to group the Flyers with Cup winning teams seems sort of silly to me.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Gotta ask, if the Flyers are the 4th most successful team over the past 4 years (better than the Pens), why does Disco still have his job, why is Disco the coach of Team USA for the Olympics, and why did Laviolette get fired? Not saying Laviolette deserved to get fired (I thought that was sort of BS), but I don't recall Disco being put on the hot seat at all during his coaching tenure with the Pens. I know coaching isn't everything, but one coach still has his job and named to coach Team USA, the other coach is out of a job. I don't think this would be the case if the Flyers really were better than the Pens over the past 4 years.

 

[juliansteed]

I was talking about SINCE the Penguins won the cup, so the four seasons since, not that season included

Fair enough. Just seems like an odd starting point especially when it was in response to a post that was talking about the past 5 years. I took it as you disagreeing with her, but I guess instead you were making a completely independent but somewhat similar thought.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

They have moved all the way up to have enough points for 4th seed in the Western conference (though Colorado and LA both have a higher point% to account for games in hand).

Might as well just hand them the Cup now and skip the rest of the season.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Obligatory post when the 30 game mark is barely upon us.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Call me old or say what you want but I have always said and continue to say the playoffs start a new season. Some teams are better geared for the playoffs. Some team naturally match up better against some teams than others.

It's not about the points in the regular season, many teams have won the Presidents Trophy and their season ended there. There are way too many variables involved to pick a favorite at the 30 game mark. The season isn't even half over, all you can do is guess. Shit happens, teams pick up rental players for the run oh and on occasion teams have injuries, they can be to key players or much needed roll players. Some players excel in the playoffs and some fade. Goalies get hot and some get cold. There always seems to be a player that has a quiet regular season and his luck changes in May and June and he finds a scoring touch.

Good conversation and not trying to piss on anyone's parade but ask me when the first round starts.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

No way do I see the Penguins as the favorites to win the cup. They can barely beat the Islanders. I question their goaltending in a BIG WAY. No goalie, No Parade. There are just to many really good teams out West. The hope for whoever comes out of the East is has to be that the winner in the West is so beat up by the time they reach the finals that it gives them a shot.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

I just have a problem with saying a team is "favorite" 30 games into the season. Too much can happen in the next 50 to make that claim.


I have a feeling not too many people agreed with my analogy two post back.

 

[elocomotive]

I just have a problem with saying a team is "favorite" 30 games into the season. Too much can happen in the next 50 to make that claim.

I agree. I personally hate it when people try to "call" things way before they are over.

 

[Comeds]

I agree. I personally hate it when people try to "call" things way before they are over.

We think the same. I get annoyed when someone "projects" a championship after a 3rd of the season.