AP names Brian Kelly Coach of the Year

[idseer]

Results matter.

And no, calling it a travesty is pathetic. Even for the only honest ND fan(tm) such as yourself.

you're wrong. results do not matter when judging a coach. this year give me the alabama team with faust as coach and you can take wake forest with saban and you'd be calling faust the better coach.

oh, and you've called him worse than pathetic. guess your words don't mean much sometimes.

 

[jjc2009]

you're wrong. results do not matter when judging a coach. this year give me the alabama team with faust as coach and you can take wake forest with saban and you'd be calling faust the better coach.

JFC.

If Faust went 12-0 beating GA in the conf championship game and routing LSU, and Saban went 7-6 and got blown out by Clemson and ND in embarrassing fashion, Faust absolutely would be more deserving of coach of the year.

There are no words for how stupid your argument is.

 

[Irish7478]

faust was a joke. i wouldn't compare him to faust. willingham, however, was easily as good as kelly. as a coach, he couldn't recruit as well but, until he fell off the table at washington, was a better on field coach. davie was also as good a field coach. so don't pretend he was this tremendous improvement because he's NOT! he's had a little more luck and he's been around longer. and you're right. your association with the team has nothing to do with anything here. odd you bring it up, isn't it?

Take a look at the winning percentage of those great field coaches you mentioned(Davie and Willingham) They both achieved winning percentages of 58%. While the coach you characterize as lousy had a winning percentage of 65%. And of course, if we are factoring in individual game performance, we would add in another 21 wins which were vacated by off the field issues. That would bring the winning percentage of the lousy coach to 71% compared to the two that you characterize as better game coaches at 58%. But as you say, he was lucky. (Although you don’t explain how he was lucky)

As to bringing up my association with the team, that was in response to you stating how Notre Dame was competitive when you were raised. It seemed that you wanted to know how Notre Dame performed was while I was being raised. As if somehow your background with ND was better than the rest of us here. It’s not. But you’re right about one thing, it was odd that you brought it up.

 

[idseer]

Results matter.

And no, calling it a travesty is pathetic. Even for the only honest ND fan(tm) such as yourself.

JFC.

If Faust went 12-0 beating GA in the conf championship game and routing LSU, and Saban went 7-6 and got blown out by Clemson and ND in embarrassing fashion, Faust absolutely would be more deserving of coach of the year.

There are no words for how stupid your argument is.

i don't think you understand what the word 'stupid' means.

maybe we have a different definition of what a 'coach of the year' is. you confuse it with being successful. some very poor coaches have successful seasons. kelly has had 2! kelly is a poor on-field coach. you know it as well as i do. i maintain a successful coach who is poor at what he does cannot BE a 'coach of the year'. you think the only thing that matters is winning. i would bet my life that there will come a time when you'll know that isn't true.

 

[idseer]

Take a look at the winning percentage of those great field coaches you mentioned(Davie and Willingham) They both achieved winning percentages of 58%. While the coach you characterize as lousy had a winning percentage of 65%. And of course, if we are factoring in individual game performance, we would add in another 21 wins which were vacated by off the field issues. That would bring the winning percentage of the lousy coach to 71% compared to the two that you characterize as better game coaches at 58%. But as you say, he was lucky. (Although you don’t explain how he was lucky)

it's not hard to understand. he had better players.[/QUOTE]

As to bringing up my association with the team, that was in response to you stating how Notre Dame was competitive when you were raised. It seemed that you wanted to know how Notre Dame performed was while I was being raised. As if somehow your background with ND was better than the rest of us here. It’s not. But you’re right about one thing, it was odd that you brought it up.

LOL .... how does my stating how competitive they were in my youth indicate anyone wants to be impressed by your knowing some players personally.
and the "i know you are but what am i" ploy at the end was as pathetic a thing as i've read from you.

 

[jjc2009]

i don't think you understand what the word 'stupid' means.

maybe we have a different definition of what a 'coach of the year' is. you confuse it with being successful. some very poor coaches have successful seasons. kelly has had 2! kelly is a poor on-field coach. you know it as well as i do. i maintain a successful coach who is poor at what he does cannot BE a 'coach of the year'. you think the only thing that matters is winning. i would bet my life that there will come a time when you'll know that isn't true.

No. Your argument is objectively stupid. No 7-5 coach is going to win the award, which is more of a “most improved” award.

And the fact that Kelly won coach if the year during that “other” successful season too kinda shreds your argument

 

[idseer]

No. Your argument is objectively stupid. No 7-5 coach is going to win the award, which is more of a “most improved” award.

And the fact that Kelly won coach if the year during that “other” successful season too kinda shreds your argument

last first ... no, it doesn't. he won it and i agreed the first time. he'd only had 2 seasons under his belt and growth could have been expected. the fact he made questionable calls thruout the year wasn't as apparent. since then we've all learned better.

first last ... i didn't make that argument.

 

[idseer]

what's funny is ... his whole tenure fans right here (and i'm sure elsewhere) called for his head. why am i one of the few who actually meant it? you lose all rationality during and shortly after games? and only when he's having success he's a wonderful coach and deserving of awards and accolades?
at least i'm consistent.

 

[Irish7478]

it's not hard to understand. he had better players.

LOL .... how does my stating how competitive they were in my youth indicate anyone wants to be impressed by your knowing some players personally.
and the "i know you are but what am i" ploy at the end was as pathetic a thing as i've read from you.[/QUOTE]

So both Davie and Willingham had inferior players. And of course, the quality of the coaching had nothing to do with that. I don’t recall Holtz taking all the good players with him when he left, leaving Davie with no talent. And of course, Willingham was stuck with a bunch of crappy players like Quinn, Samardzija, and Zbikowski, Stovall, McKnight and a few others. And that crap about how good they were when you were a kid, but no one else can say how they were when they were younger is too stupid even for you to bring up, but you did. Why should we be surprised.

 

[jjc2009]

last first ... no, it doesn't. he won it and i agreed the first time. he'd only had 2 seasons under his belt and growth could have been expected. the fact he made questionable calls thruout the year wasn't as apparent. since then we've all learned better.

first last ... i didn't make that argument.

Yes. You did. You said Nick Saban coaching Wake Forest to 7-6 would be more deserving than Gerry Faust going undefeated. because in your eyes he’s a “better coach”.

And you’re not helping yourself by saying he deserved it in 2012 but not this year. He’s largely been the same coach his entire tenure. If anything, he’s learned from some of his mistakes so a better case can be made for 2018.

 

[jjc2009]

what's funny is ... his whole tenure fans right here (and i'm sure elsewhere) called for his head. why am i one of the few who actually meant it? you lose all rationality during and shortly after games? and only when he's having success he's a wonderful coach and deserving of awards and accolades?
at least i'm consistent.

Right. Because you’re the only true ND fan. We get it.

FTR I’ve only explicitly called for his head after 2016 and that was for him to reach a certain benchmark, which he met.

He’s not a good gamesay coach. He’s not on Saban’s or Meyer’s level.
But it’s also okay to give credit where it’s due and there’s nothing inconsistent about that.

 

[idseer]

LOL .... how does my stating how competitive they were in my youth indicate anyone wants to be impressed by your knowing some players personally.
and the "i know you are but what am i" ploy at the end was as pathetic a thing as i've read from you.

So both Davie and Willingham had inferior players. And of course, the quality of the coaching had nothing to do with that. I don’t recall Holtz taking all the good players with him when he left, leaving Davie with no talent. And of course, Willingham was stuck with a bunch of crappy players like Quinn, Samardzija, and Zbikowski, Stovall, McKnight and a few others. And that crap about how good they were when you were a kid, but no one else can say how they were when they were younger is too stupid even for you to bring up, but you did. Why should we be surprised.[/QUOTE]

i don't know nor care what surprises you.
and i didn't say nor suggest davie and willingham had inferior players. willingham's first year he went 10-3 with players picked by another coach. his second year he lost a mostly senior squad and did not recruit well and had a weaker team. this is not necessarily a reflection of his 'coaching' per se. he improved his third year but the fans already wanted him gone.
bob davie otoh came in with no head coaching experience and finished that first year with some decent players still on the team with a winning record including two against ranked opponents. he improved that the following year with a 9-3 record. after that the quality of his players dropped as his own recruits became more involved. both these coaches best years were with other coaches players. yes, willingham succeeded with davie's recruits but i'd also suggest willingham was a better coach. neither was very good at recruiting. btw, kinda stupid to name a couple good players. you think a couple good players sprinkled in amongst a weak team makes your argument somehow? you are laughable. you cannot distinguish between a team and individuals.

 

[idseer]

Yes. You did. You said Nick Saban coaching Wake Forest to 7-6 would be more deserving than Gerry Faust going undefeated. because in your eyes he’s a “better coach”.

making things up doesn't help your argument. twist what i said all you want it doesn't change what you know i was saying.

And you’re not helping yourself by saying he deserved it in 2012 but not this year. He’s largely been the same coach his entire tenure. If anything, he’s learned from some of his mistakes so a better case can be made for 2018.

i disagree. i gave my reason for exactly why i felt this way and it still stands.

 

[idseer]

Right. Because you’re the only true ND fan. We get it.

FTR I’ve only explicitly called for his head after 2016 and that was for him to reach a certain benchmark, which he met.

He’s not a good gamesay coach. He’s not on Saban’s or Meyer’s level.
But it’s also okay to give credit where it’s due and there’s nothing inconsistent about that.

1st, your childish first sentence is beneath you.

2nd, you called for it ... and you certainly were not the only one. you're just rationalizing now.

3rd, i give credit to the team for being better that i thought they'd be ... primarily because he started using a real q-back. and btw, i do give credit to him for that change and for not losing a couple games he tried to lose. but that credit does not extend to "coach of the year" honors!

 

[jjc2009]

1st, your childish first sentence is beneath you.

2nd, you called for it ... and you certainly were not the only one. you're just rationalizing now.

3rd, i give credit to the team for being better that i thought they'd be ... primarily because he started using a real q-back. and btw, i do give credit to him for that change and for not losing a couple games he tried to lose. but that credit does not extend to "coach of the year" honors!

You can easily search my posts and see where I said he should be fired.

 

[Irish7478]

i don't know nor care what surprises you.
and i didn't say nor suggest davie and willingham had inferior players. willingham's first year he went 10-3 with players picked by another coach. his second year he lost a mostly senior squad and did not recruit well and had a weaker team. this is not necessarily a reflection of his 'coaching' per se. he improved his third year but the fans already wanted him gone.
bob davie otoh came in with no head coaching experience and finished that first year with some decent players still on the team with a winning record including two against ranked opponents. he improved that the following year with a 9-3 record. after that the quality of his players dropped as his own recruits became more involved. both these coaches best years were with other coaches players. yes, willingham succeeded with davie's recruits but i'd also suggest willingham was a better coach. neither was very good at recruiting. btw, kinda stupid to name a couple good players. you think a couple good players sprinkled in amongst a weak team makes your argument somehow? you are laughable. you cannot distinguish between a team and individuals.

Why don’t you re-read what you posted in post #25. You stated that Kelly’s players were better than Willingham’s or Davie’s. If Kelly’s were better, then Willingham’s and Davie’s players were inferior to Kelly’s. It’s probably a good idea that you pretend you didn’t post that. Of course you feel it is stupid for me to name the good players when you position is based on the fact that there were no good players, but the fact remains that they both had some good players, but bad coaching fails to develop them. The quality of willingham’s Game coaching can be summed up in his second year when he went 5-7 with a 38-0 loss to Michigan and a 37-0 loss to Florida State. (Not to mention a 14-45 loss to USC). Yes this truly showed the genius of his game day coaching. Sorry, but the Willingham and Davie years were not the golden age of ND football no matter how hard to make them sound that way. And to compare them to a 12-0 season is beyond ridiculous.

 

[idseer]

Why don’t you re-read what you posted in post #25. You stated that Kelly’s players were better than Willingham’s or Davie’s. If Kelly’s were better, then Willingham’s and Davie’s players were inferior to Kelly’s. It’s probably a good idea that you pretend you didn’t post that. Of course you feel it is stupid for me to name the good players when you position is based on the fact that there were no good players, but the fact remains that they both had some good players, but bad coaching fails to develop them. The quality of willingham’s Game coaching can be summed up in his second year when he went 5-7 with a 38-0 loss to Michigan and a 37-0 loss to Florida State. (Not to mention a 14-45 loss to USC). Yes this truly showed the genius of his game day coaching. Sorry, but the Willingham and Davie years were not the golden age of ND football no matter how hard to make them sound that way. And to compare them to a 12-0 season is beyond ridiculous.

your comprehension skills are atrocious! kelly's had 9 years! yes, his players were better, mainly because he is a good recruiter. i've said this all along. what i said was he cannot COACH! and because he had (overall) better players he had a better w/l percentage. this brings us back to your original ignorance in stating "neither is he the reincarnation of Faust, Davie, Willingham ... " i'm saying he is MAYBE better than those guys but not by much at all and he's had worse years than they have.
never said anything about them being the "golden age' either. did i ever say i liked any of them? holtz was the last decent coach we had and the dry spell, imo, has been enormous ever since, and not just because of the one NC either. year after year you could count on a competitive team. that hasn't existed ever since.

 

[idseer]

You can easily search my posts and see where I said he should be fired.

i wasn't arguing that point. i didn't say you said it more than once. but you DID say it .... and i'd bet inwardly you did as often as others.
doesn't matter really. i think you agree with me even if you won't admit it.

 

[Irish7478]

your comprehension skills are atrocious! kelly's had 9 years! yes, his players were better, mainly because he is a good recruiter. i've said this all along. what i said was he cannot COACH! and because he had (overall) better players he had a better w/l percentage. this brings us back to your original ignorance in stating "neither is he the reincarnation of Faust, Davie, Willingham ... " i'm saying he is MAYBE better than those guys but not by much at all and he's had worse years than they have.
never said anything about them being the "golden age' either. did i ever say i liked any of them? holtz was the last decent coach we had and the dry spell, imo, has been enormous ever since, and not just because of the one NC either. year after year you could count on a competitive team. that hasn't existed ever since.

Yes, those 12-0 seasons certainly prove that he is a lousy coach. Why couldn’t he be as good as Willingham or Davie. The funny thing is that not only do I think he had a good year, but the AP writers and the Home Depot coach’s award were both given to Kelly. Crazy that nobody seems to realize that he did a lousy job this year. Just you. I hope he is just as lousy next year, and the year after that. But good news for you that game day genius Bob Davie finished the year with a 3-9 record at New Mexico. Hard to believe that a game day genius could finish with a 3-9 record while a lousy game day coach goes 12-0 and is in the playoff. I think we all know you’re upset that the AP writers passed on Davie for coach of the year.

 

[jjc2009]

i wasn't arguing that point. i didn't say you said it more than once. but you DID say it .... and i'd bet inwardly you did as often as others.
doesn't matter really. i think you agree with me even if you won't admit it.

I'll make it real simple for you. No. I font like Btian Kelly yes. I think he was as deserving as anyone else to win coach of the year.