Anyone think that Chip Kelly ...

[Sharkonabicycle]

Chip Kelly has lost his god damn mind.

 

[eaglesnut]

top 5 in plays run? Or in efficiency?

Points, bitch.

And did I say top 5, because I meant top 3. Just like every single year Chip has ever coached in this league.

 

[fordman84]

So in this thread I'm told that the Eagles offense has been top 5 under Chip...and that the offense needed to be changed because it was dysfunctional.

 

[fordman84]

Points, bitch.

And did I say top 5, because I meant top 3. Just like every single year Chip has ever coached in this league.

Enjoy losing games 45-42 then, because your defense is going to be spent. But hey, you have a top 3 scoring offense!

 

[Broncos6482]

Points, bitch.

And did I say top 5, because I meant top 3. Just like every single year Chip has ever coached in this league.

The Eagles finished 4th in points in 2013.

 

[fordman84]

The Eagles finished 4th in points in 2013.

meh, I'm sure he was drunk from his kickass beach party weekend bro.

 

[eaglesnut]

The Eagles finished 4th in points in 2013.

Oh yeah shit. That was yards. When I switched the page from 2014 to 2013 it switched from points back to yards. My bad.

 

[eaglesnut]

Enjoy losing games 45-42 then, because your defense is going to be spent. But hey, you have a top 3 scoring offense!

Your secondary was as much an embarrassment as ours was, and we improved ours. If TOP is our excuse, then what's your excuse?

 

[eaglesnut]

So in this thread I'm told that the Eagles offense has been top 5 under Chip...and that the offense needed to be changed because it was dysfunctional.

Sure, it didn't do jack against the Seahawks defense. Chip doesn't fuck around. He wanted to do it his way with his players. Foles was injury prone and couldn't cut it the way Chip wanted so he moved him for an injury prone guy that could actually sling it the way Chip wanted. No loss there. Shady loved him some Shady and gave Chip a chance to get a top young LB so he pulled the trigger. Maclin bounced for some more money and Chip got himself a stud rookie WR to fill the spot. What are you whining about exactly? You can choose to see, but you choose otherwise. That's on you.

 

[fordman84]

Your secondary was as much an embarrassment as ours was, and we improved ours. If TOP is our excuse, then what's your excuse?

i'm not disputing that, nor am I discussing it. My teams defense being bad doesn't make yours any more able to stay on the field more than any other defense in the league.

 

[DutchBird]

So in this thread I'm told that the Eagles offense has been top 5 under Chip...and that the offense needed to be changed because it was dysfunctional.

The team scored a lot of points (not in the least because of ST and teh defense).

The offense left a lot to be desired, not being able to sustain drives, score TD's (and resorting to FG's), turnovers (mostly by Foles), and leaving a whole lot of points on the board. Watching the all-22 the next day was usually a very frustrating experience, when you looked at the players being wide open and simply ignored by the QB's; or the stupid interceptions thrown by Foles. Foles was bad last year.

Yet despite all these failings, the Eagles offense still ended up as 5th in the NFL in YPG, 6th in points scored by the offense (3rd if you count ST and Def scores). The offense was T-5 for rushing TD's, and T-12 for passing TD's (7th total in TD's scored by the offense).

Much of the eventual total scores was distorted by a number of games where the offense exploded (regularly only for a small part of the game). There were games where the offense was atrocious for much of it; San Francisco, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, St. Louis, Arizona, Seattle to name just a few.

So yes, the offense was one of the best in the league, yet very dysfunctional, all in one.

The Eagles offense (and team as a whole) was a statistical oddity last season, when looking (especially) at the amount of turnovers, relatively low 3rd down percentage and such.

 

[fordman84]

Sure, it didn't do jack against the Seahawks defense. Chip doesn't fuck around. He wanted to do it his way with his players. Foles was injury prone and couldn't cut it the way Chip wanted so he moved him for an injury prone guy that could actually sling it the way Chip wanted. No loss there. Shady loved him some Shady and gave Chip a chance to get a top young LB so he pulled the trigger. Maclin bounced for some more money and Chip got himself a stud rookie WR to fill the spot. What are you whining about exactly? You can choose to see, but you choose otherwise. That's on you.

Sheesh, the bold is exactly what I said that started your little mission (along with a few of your pals). I said that Chip has his guys and his system, so he better start winning or he has no excuses.

5 pages later and you finally come around and admit the same thing

 

[fordman84]

The team scored a lot of points (not in the least because of ST and teh defense).

The offense left a lot to be desired, not being able to sustain drives, score TD's (and resorting to FG's), turnovers (mostly by Foles), and leaving a whole lot of points on the board. Watching the all-22 the next day was usually a very frustrating experience, when you looked at the players being wide open and simply ignored by the QB's; or the stupid interceptions thrown by Foles. Foles was bad last year.

Yet despite all these failings, the Eagles offense still ended up as 5th in the NFL in YPG, 6th in points scored by the offense (3rd if you count ST and Def scores). The offense was T-5 for rushing TD's, and T-12 for passing TD's (7th total in TD's scored by the offense).

Much of the eventual total scores was distorted by a number of games where the offense exploded (regularly only for a small part of the game). There were games where the offense was atrocious for much of it; San Francisco, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, St. Louis, Arizona, Seattle to name just a few.

So yes, the offense was one of the best in the league, yet very dysfunctional, all in one.

The Eagles offense (and team as a whole) was a statistical oddity last season, when looking (especially) at the amount of turnovers, relatively low 3rd down percentage and such.

You know I'm not really arguing the potency of your offense? this has all devolved because I pointed out that Chips system runs a lot of plays which will affect your defense at the end of the season and in the playoffs.

My statements are that Chip now has his guys so lacks excuses if he doesn't start getting results, and your defense won't be able to hold up in the postseason when it matters if it spends so much time on the field that they are worn out in week 18.

 

[DutchBird]

i'm not disputing that, nor am I discussing it. My teams defense being bad doesn't make yours any more able to stay on the field more than any other defense in the league.

For much of the season, it actually did. I would argue it actually did throughout the season. The San Francisco and Indianapolis game - for example - should have been games where the Eagles were blown out, based on the amount of time the Eagles defense was on the field (and your narrative would hold true).

The big problem for the Eagles defense was giving up the big play due to an atrocious secondary - more so than them being on the field too much, it seemed. The big play is what killed the Eagles defense (and did so regularly from the very start of the season).

What made things worse was that the offense went 3-and out a whole lot, especially for long stretches of a game. Turnovers did not help either (T 6th worst in the league for net ratio, T 1st in fumbles lost, and 1st outright in INT's).

If the offense had scored quickly, things would already have been a whole lot better. Or would simply have limited the number of turnovers it gave up.

 

[DutchBird]

You know I'm not really arguing the potency of your offense? this has all devolved because I pointed out that Chips system runs a lot of plays which will affect your defense at the end of the season and in the playoffs.

My statements are that Chip now has his guys so lacks excuses if he doesn't start getting results, and your defense won't be able to hold up in the postseason when it matters if it spends so much time on the field that they are worn out in week 18.

I agree with the bolded.

I tentatively disagree with the second part though, about the defense - assuming the offense does not lead the league in turnovers (by a wide margin) again, and either converts 3rd downs and puts up points, rather than leaving so many on the board, and simply disappearing for 2+ quarters every game (which it did in most games last season).

 

[fordman84]

For much of the season, it actually did. I would argue it actually did throughout the season. The San Francisco and Indianapolis game - for example - should have been games where the Eagles were blown out, based on the amount of time the Eagles defense was on the field (and your narrative would hold true).

The big problem for the Eagles defense was giving up the big play due to an atrocious secondary - more so than them being on the field too much, it seemed. The big play is what killed the Eagles defense (and did so regularly from the very start of the season).

What made things worse was that the offense went 3-and out a whole lot, especially for long stretches of a game. Turnovers did not help either (T 6th worst in the league for net ratio, T 1st in fumbles lost, and 1st outright in INT's).

If the offense had scored quickly, things would already have been a whole lot better. Or would simply have limited the number of turnovers it gave up.

IMO the issue is your team going 3-and-out and running a total of 15 seconds off the clock. Thus having your time of possession be last or near last every year Chip is running his system. And it leads to a gassed defense. And that leads to trouble in the playoffs.

Scoring quickly just means that you get your defense less rest. Sure is exciting to score all those points. Until you run into someone who actually has a good defense that stops your offense, and your own defense is too tired to stop their offense.

And as we have seen, the Eagles struggle against anyone with a halfway decent defense and an offense with a pulse. Other than Dallas once, did you beat any playoff teams last year? You beat one team, a dejected Giants team in December. Just couldn't hang on at the end of the season...sure looked like a gassed team.

But hey, you and eaglesnut can celebrate your top3 points producing offense!

 

[DutchBird]

IMO the issue is your team going 3-and-out and running a total of 15 seconds off the clock. Thus having your time of possession be last or near last every year Chip is running his system. And it leads to a gassed defense. And that leads to trouble in the playoffs.

Scoring quickly just means that you get your defense less rest. Sure is exciting to score all those points. Until you run into someone who actually has a good defense that stops your offense, and your own defense is too tired to stop their offense.

True. Though with the sole exception of perhaps Seattle, there was not one game where the major problem was the defense doing anything special to stop the offense. It was the offense (most notably Foles) not executing - either by turning the ball over, or simply missing or ignoring WIDE OPEN players. This became patently obvious when watching the All-22. Think of Tebow not throwing to the endzone in the last game or Sanchez completely missing Matthews in the first.

And IMO in the Seattle game there were a whole lot of other issues as well.

And as we have seen, the Eagles struggle against anyone with a halfway decent defense and an offense with a pulse. Other than Dallas once, did you beat any playoff teams last year? You beat one team, a dejected Giants team in December. Just couldn't hang on at the end of the season...sure looked like a gassed team.

But hey, you and eaglesnut can celebrate your top3 points producing offense!

Seems that the Eagles had little trouble moving it up and down the field against Baltimore, even using a most basic playbook (IIRC Kelly has stated he runs no more than different types 10 plays max this preseason). Why? Because they executed more or less. And - as said again - last year it was execution more than scheme.

Also knocked off Indianapolis and Carolina. And Dallas once.

By the end of the season the defense was somewhat gassed, though again the much bigger problem was the secondary just giving up big play after big play - and consistently doing so throughout the season. Washington was a complete WTF game, one I would consider an abberation, where everything that could go wrong did go wrong (like for instance the FG kicking).

And for the record, with the sole exception of Cary Williams, just about every player, even those on defense, that has spoken about how they felt physically by the end of the season has stated that they felt as good of not in better shape than they had encountered previously in their career. Also seems to run counter to the they were gassed narrative.

 

[fordman84]

True. Though with the sole exception of perhaps Seattle, there was not one game where the major problem was the defense doing anything special to stop the offense. It was the offense (most notably Foles) not executing - either by turning the ball over, or simply missing or ignoring WIDE OPEN players. This became patently obvious when watching the All-22. Think of Tebow not throwing to the endzone in the last game or Sanchez completely missing Matthews in the first.

And IMO in the Seattle game there were a whole lot of other issues as well.





Seems that the Eagles had little trouble moving it up and down the field against Baltimore, even using a most basic playbook (IIRC Kelly has stated he runs no more than different types 10 plays max this preseason). Why? Because they executed more or less. And - as said again - last year it was execution more than scheme.

Also knocked off Indianapolis and Carolina. And Dallas once.

By the end of the season the defense was somewhat gassed, though again the much bigger problem was the secondary just giving up big play after big play - and consistently doing so throughout the season. Washington was a complete WTF game, one I would consider an abberation, where everything that could go wrong did go wrong (like for instance the FG kicking).

And for the record, with the sole exception of Cary Williams, just about every player, even those on defense, that has spoken about how they felt physically by the end of the season has stated that they felt as good of not in better shape than they had encountered previously in their career. Also seems to run counter to the they were gassed narrative.

I tend to value actions over words. Do YOU think it would be smart for a player to publicly speak ill of Chips system? How long do you think he would be employed? How easy would it be to land another job at the same or higher pay based on how the defense ended last season?

 

[ducky]

The Eagles finished 4th in points in 2013.

For the Eagles because of the pace of play, you almost need an NBA type of adjustment.

The Eagles had 203 possessions in 2014. Most in the NFL (the average team had 179 possessions last season).

If you break it down by yards and points per possession, the Eagles offense last year was 14th in yards per drive last year and 13th in points per drive.

Last year they were an average offense that played fast. In 2013 they were a much better offense even though they scored 30 points less over the course of the season.

What we see in 2015 is going to be interesting. I just don't see how they replicate 2013 with their OL in flux having had to replace both OG's and no WR as good as Maclin or Jackson on the roster.

 

[DutchBird]

I tend to value actions over words. Do YOU think it would be smart for a player to publicly speak ill of Chips system? How long do you think he would be employed? How easy would it be to land another job at the same or higher pay based on how the defense ended last season?

So do I. And apparently we have seen quite a few different things last season.

Depending on what they say in public, and how they say it, then yes, it seems Chip is fine with it. Chip has also repeatedly said that - especially by the end of the season - players are put on an individual training regimen to keep them in the best shape possible, players are (almost) continuously monitored for their health (and questioned about them) during the season.

If truely there was such discontent about this aspect of Chip among the defense, it would have come out some time ago.

Also, Chip has an open door policy (unlike Reid), and has openly stated that if anyone thinks he has something of value to say to him, and can support his argument, he will listen - something that seemingly has been backed up so far (based on what coaches say, as well as Cary Williams' public statement, and IIRC even LeSean). Kelly has also openly and to some extent publicly apologized to his players when he turned out to be wrong (again involving McCoy). I have seen few people make the argument it was retaliation that got Wiliams or McCoy shown the door this season. And to some extent that even goes for Mathis and Boykin.

Would it be the smartest thing to do? No. But if it was as bad as you suggest it is, and players have so much trouble with the system then this would have gotten out into the press a while ago.