Anone for Captain Kirk

[beardown07]

Hey............I can qualify for a card if I wanted one........54 is really not that old.

Can you throw a deep out? lel

 

[beardown07]

@wood20ks, what's your sideline demeanor like?

 

[wood20ks]

@wood20ks, what's your sideline demeanor like?

I`d like to throw tv bricks ever now and then............lol

 

[beardown07]

I`d like to throw tv bricks ever now and then............lol

Ya, I am definitely more fiery than Jay.

 

[Payton]

Yeah... Cousins- IS Jay Cutler!

Lol... as far as what? He's not similar on the field, as Cutler has never even sniffed a run like Cousins is on right now (or the second half of last season, for that matter). I also cannot think of a QB more opposite than Jay in demeanor.

Cousins is Joe Flacco to me... Having a charmed stretch/season, going to get WAY overpaid because he can and shackle whatever team signs him (Likely the 'Skins) to a contract that makes building the rest of the team barely possible...

 

[anotheridiot]

Its already been announced (in an attempt to get a long term deal done) that Washington will franchise him again.

 

[beardown07]

 

[richig07]

Cousins is Joe Flacco to me... Having a charmed stretch/season, going to get WAY overpaid because he can and shackle whatever team signs him (Likely the 'Skins) to a contract that makes building the rest of the team barely possible...

Except Cousins is doing this for the second straight year, and he doesn't have near the defense Flacco had when he won back in the day. In fact, this is ALL Cousins has done in his sample size as the team's starter. Two years.

Should we go over QB's who have had stretches like Cousins and gone on to be great? Because simply saying; "Flacco played well for a short period of time too, and wound up overpaid"... That is quite irrelevant to Kirk Cousins.

Kirk Cousins team is downright average nearly everywhere, and he's been putting EYE POPPING numbers.

 

[Payton]

He's playing at as high of a level as ever... and hey... guy... HE JUST SIGNED A GOD DAMNED CONTRACT EXTENSION. lol

Yes, but the "Patriot Way" has never been to wait for the wheels to fall off before movin

Except Cousins is doing this for the second straight year, and he doesn't have near the defense Flacco had when he won back in the day. In fact, this is ALL Cousins has done in his sample size as the team's starter. Two years.

Should we go over QB's who have had stretches like Cousins and gone on to be great? Because simply saying; "Flacco played well for a short period of time too, and wound up overpaid"... That is quite irrelevant to Kirk Cousins.

Kirk Cousins team is downright average nearly everywhere, and he's been putting EYE POPPING numbers.

Annnnnnnnnd, then put Cousins in a new offensive system and watch him circle the toilet like so many before him... You DO realize that the 'Skins OC is a pretty sought after HC candidate at this point, right?

I like Cousins, but no way in FUGGIN' hell am I forking over $20 Million a season for him (Hence, comparison to Flacco). And let's not pretend like Flacco was Trent freaking' Dilfer that season either. He put up decent numbers in leading his team to a Championship, got WAY overpaid, and the team has suffered ever since.

We have some nice young players we are bringing along, so your strategy is to overpay for a QB so we can't afford to re-sign any of them in a couple of years after we've developed them?

Nah, see... I learn from other team's mistakes and I don't want to see us make that one. I've seen how hard it is to recover from a huge QB contract already. Don't feel like going down that road again.

 

[Payton]

Its already been announced (in an attempt to get a long term deal done) that Washington will franchise him again.

Yep, I'm in the D.C. area and this has been announced all over local radio as well... Cousins isn't going anywhere.

 

[anotheridiot]

I am not crying poor for Flacco, but the last contract he signed had base salaries of 1 million, 6 million and 4 million the first three years. It was based on alot of bonus money but it gave the Ravens three years of a "cheap" quarterback before that contract exploded. The year he signed it he only made 6.8 million. It was an attempt to be able to have some flexibility to keep that defense together a few years and allowed them to spread the signing bonus over the first 5 years. Flacco was really the key to this new "franchise" quarterback thinking that you pay a guy 15 million a season and you have a franchise quarterback. Money took over quality of play.

The argument with the bears right now, is there should be in the neighborhood of 11 million dollars of cap money. They had 7 and the two suspensions of Jeffrey and Freeman should net an extra 4 at least. That is money they can give to a player right now as a signing bonus so they keep the cap hits down for the duration of his contract. I dont know if we have that guy on the team right now. I dont know if the rules are going to be the same with cap carryover this season, I just know last year they were able to declare how much they were going to use to add to the 2016 cap. Teams like Jacksonville had 32 million carry over and chose not to carry any over, the bears had a measly 862k. But the thought is, that if Baltimore had that much carryover, they would have cut a check to Flacco and his cap hit over the first 5 years would have been lower. The general consensus is these guys prefer to get a check cut.

 

[richig07]

Yes, but the "Patriot Way" has never been to wait for the wheels to fall off before movin


Annnnnnnnnd, then put Cousins in a new offensive system and watch him circle the toilet like so many before him... You DO realize that the 'Skins OC is a pretty sought after HC candidate at this point, right?

I like Cousins, but no way in FUGGIN' hell am I forking over $20 Million a season for him (Hence, comparison to Flacco). And let's not pretend like Flacco was Trent freaking' Dilfer that season either. He put up decent numbers in leading his team to a Championship, got WAY overpaid, and the team has suffered ever since.

We have some nice young players we are bringing along, so your strategy is to overpay for a QB so we can't afford to re-sign any of them in a couple of years after we've developed them?

Nah, see... I learn from other team's mistakes and I don't want to see us make that one. I've seen how hard it is to recover from a huge QB contract already. Don't feel like going down that road again.

Yes, but the "Patriot Way" has never been to wait for the wheels to fall off before movin

That's because they've always had arguably the greatest QB of all-time at the helm, and could afford to do that. As long as Brady is healthy, and still playing well. He's their QB. Stop the nonsense. They've drafted young QB's they've liked in the past, to develop under him and they'll continue to do so. They're aware he won't play forever, and they'll try to stay ready. However, it's 100% up to him as to when he stops being the Pats QB.

I like Cousins, but no way in FUGGIN' hell am I forking over $20 Million a season for him (Hence, comparison to Flacco). And let's not pretend like Flacco was Trent freaking' Dilfer that season either. He put up decent numbers in leading his team to a Championship, got WAY overpaid, and the team has suffered ever since.

Dude... are you fuckin high? That's the price you pay for a franchise QB now. If you don't want to pony up 18-20 mil per year for a QB, you'll never have a good one.

 

[Payton]

I am not crying poor for Flacco, but the last contract he signed had base salaries of 1 million, 6 million and 4 million the first three years. It was based on alot of bonus money but it gave the Ravens three years of a "cheap" quarterback before that contract exploded. The year he signed it he only made 6.8 million. It was an attempt to be able to have some flexibility to keep that defense together a few years and allowed them to spread the signing bonus over the first 5 years. Flacco was really the key to this new "franchise" quarterback thinking that you pay a guy 15 million a season and you have a franchise quarterback. Money took over quality of play.

But, for instance, Seattle was able to get themselves a QB on the cheap for a few years out of the draft. The Cowboys (much to my chagrin) will also get a nice discount on good QB play over the next couple of years. THAT is a proven model for building a contender... The Flacco comparison that I make falls short in that Baltimore actually paid him AFTER he'd won them a Super Bowl... As you state, he was cheap before that.

The argument with the bears right now, is there should be in the neighborhood of 11 million dollars of cap money. They had 7 and the two suspensions of Jeffrey and Freeman should net an extra 4 at least. That is money they can give to a player right now as a signing bonus so they keep the cap hits down for the duration of his contract. I dont know if we have that guy on the team right now. I dont know if the rules are going to be the same with cap carryover this season, I just know last year they were able to declare how much they were going to use to add to the 2016 cap. Teams like Jacksonville had 32 million carry over and chose not to carry any over, the bears had a measly 862k. But the thought is, that if Baltimore had that much carryover, they would have cut a check to Flacco and his cap hit over the first 5 years would have been lower. The general consensus is these guys prefer to get a check cut.

I see... Guess I'm just saying we don't need to throw it all at a QB via free-agency... Let's draft one either this draft or next... The success rate of overpaying free-agent QBs seems kind of low. In fact, I'm trying to think of one that has been a success story other than Brees (and how long ago was that?).

 

[Payton]

Yes, but the "Patriot Way" has never been to wait for the wheels to fall off before movin

That's because they've always had arguably the greatest QB of all-time at the helm, and could afford to do that. As long as Brady is healthy, and still playing well. He's their QB. Stop the nonsense. They've drafted young QB's they've liked in the past, to develop under him and they'll continue to do so. They're aware he won't play forever, and they'll try to stay ready. However, it's 100% up to him as to when he stops being the Pats QB.

Honestly, that was an old response that sat queued up from a couple of days ago for some reason... I didn't send it because I do get the difference between Brady and every other player the Pats have done this with.

I like Cousins, but no way in FUGGIN' hell am I forking over $20 Million a season for him (Hence, comparison to Flacco). And let's not pretend like Flacco was Trent freaking' Dilfer that season either. He put up decent numbers in leading his team to a Championship, got WAY overpaid, and the team has suffered ever since.

Dude... are you fuckin high? That's the price you pay for a franchise QB now. If you don't want to pony up 18-20 mil per year for a QB, you'll never have a good one.

No, you don't... Draft one... Commit to him... Seattle.... Now Dallas... And there are plenty of examples, but the bottom line is that you get a discount QB for a few years...

See my post before this one, but I am hard pressed to think of a recent success story of a team throwing wads of cash at a free-agent QB... Again, Brees is all I can come up with... And that's not even "recent" at this point.

Seriously, think about it... Go through all 32 teams and see for yourself how many drafted the QB currently starting for them, and how many have a QB that they acquired via free-agency... Now, how many that went the free-agency route are teams that you think the Bears should model themselves after?

Edit: I just checked and there are currently 9 teams out of 32 who went the FA route... That alone should tell us something... (And I counted San Fran, Cleveland and the Jets kind of have home grown QBs that they can't decide on...)... The others are: Buffalo, Houston, KC, Minnesota, New Orleans, Arizona... I'd give Arizona and Buffalo decent grades I suppose... KC is kind of a 'C' grade as they have a love/hate with Alex Smith... Minnesota is probably a 'C' now as well and I think we can agree that Houston is a big ole fat 'F' with Osweiler... Oh, I guess there's Jay Cutler too.. I'll let you determine how you think that went...

So just like with drafting I guess there is mixed success, but drafting a guy is getting him at a three year discount and that just seems to be the way to go and the franchises that pick right are VERY successful... I'd like to draft "our guy" as that seems to be the way to roll...

 

[richig07]

Honestly, that was an old response that sat queued up from a couple of days ago for some reason... I didn't send it because I do get the difference between Brady and every other player the Pats have done this with.



No, you don't... Draft one... Commit to him... Seattle.... Now Dallas... And there are plenty of examples, but the bottom line is that you get a discount QB for a few years...

See my post before this one, but I am hard pressed to think of a recent success story of a team throwing wads of cash at a free-agent QB... Again, Brees is all I can come up with... And that's not even "recent" at this point.

Seriously, think about it... Go through all 32 teams and see for yourself how many drafted the QB currently starting for them, and how many have a QB that they acquired via free-agency... Now, how many that went the free-agency route are teams that you think the Bears should model themselves after?

Edit: I just checked and there are currently 9 teams out of 32 who went the FA route... That alone should tell us something... (And I counted San Fran, Cleveland and the Jets kind of have home grown QBs that they can't decide on...)... The others are: Buffalo, Houston, KC, Minnesota, New Orleans, Arizona... I'd give Arizona and Buffalo decent grades I suppose... KC is kind of a 'C' grade as they have a love/hate with Alex Smith... Minnesota is probably a 'C' now as well and I think we can agree that Houston is a big ole fat 'F' with Osweiler... Oh, I guess there's Jay Cutler too.. I'll let you determine how you think that went...

So just like with drafting I guess there is mixed success, but drafting a guy is getting him at a three year discount and that just seems to be the way to go and the franchises that pick right are VERY successful... I'd like to draft "our guy" as that seems to be the way to roll...

Arizona clearly got a couple of elite years out of Palmer. Saints got a hall of fame career from Brees. Jury is still out on Tyrod. Smith has been very solid for KC.

Also, the reason you don't see as much success from FA QB's going to another team? Is because... usually QB's with great talent don't hit the open market. Usually teams hoard the shit out of them. A QB with the talent of Cousins would be a very rare instance.

Even with the sample size... Think about it... A GIGANTIC hit with Brees, a very nice hit in Palmer, an okay landing in Smith, a question mark in Tyrod... and a few guys that didn't work out. Hey! You know what that sounds like! The NFL draft! Yeah, that's it!

 

[Payton]

Arizona clearly got a couple of elite years out of Palmer. Saints got a hall of fame career from Brees. Jury is still out on Tyrod. Smith has been very solid for KC.

Also, the reason you don't see as much success from FA QB's going to another team? Is because... usually QB's with great talent don't hit the open market. Usually teams hoard the shit out of them. A QB with the talent of Cousins would be a very rare instance.

Even with the sample size... Think about it... A GIGANTIC hit with Brees, a very nice hit in Palmer, an okay landing in Smith, a question mark in Tyrod... and a few guys that didn't work out. Hey! You know what that sounds like! The NFL draft! Yeah, that's it!

Yeah, that IS it...

So now let's do a little math, shall we?

When you get a guy in the NFL draft you pay him a few million a year maybe for three years!!!

When you get a guy via free-agency? You pay $20 million a year starting day ONE!!!

There is a REASON why over 2/3 of the teams in the NFL have chosen to draft and develop QBs!!!

 

[anotheridiot]

But, for instance, Seattle was able to get themselves a QB on the cheap for a few years out of the draft. The Cowboys (much to my chagrin) will also get a nice discount on good QB play over the next couple of years. THAT is a proven model for building a contender... The Flacco comparison that I make falls short in that Baltimore actually paid him AFTER he'd won them a Super Bowl... As you state, he was cheap before that.

But in neither case did Seattle or Dallas expect to be getting their starting quarterback. Seattle bought both the Vikings and Packers backup quarterbacks that expected to be the starters and Dallas expected to finally get Romo healthy. The problem with the bears and their fans is saying dont waste a third or fourth round pick on a QB when we can get a player that can produce now, not sit behind Cutler. You look at all the misses over the past decade of third rounders no longer on the team, or first or second rounders that dont fit the new scheme, and any one of those players that are gone could have been a QB in training, not an undrafted or late 6th round gamble. I was fine with taking Barkley in the third round when he was drafted, so I think we are there now, the down side is he has not been here in the organization learning over those three years.

 

[Payton]

But in neither case did Seattle or Dallas expect to be getting their starting quarterback. Seattle bought both the Vikings and Packers backup quarterbacks that expected to be the starters and Dallas expected to finally get Romo healthy. The problem with the bears and their fans is saying dont waste a third or fourth round pick on a QB when we can get a player that can produce now, not sit behind Cutler. You look at all the misses over the past decade of third rounders no longer on the team, or first or second rounders that dont fit the new scheme, and any one of those players that are gone could have been a QB in training, not an undrafted or late 6th round gamble. I was fine with taking Barkley in the third round when he was drafted, so I think we are there now, the down side is he has not been here in the organization learning over those three years.

Sure, if we think we might have something in Barkley we can begin to develop him into what we want and see if he can do it... Prescott was not drafted to be the starter, we know that to be true. In fact, we know that he wasn't even Dallas' 1st or 2nd choice... So they got lucky. I think Seattle had hope for Wilson and rolled the dice and it worked...

Either way, I'm simply against paying a high price for a free agent QB.

 

[wood20ks]

Can you throw a deep out? lel

Sure can................just don't ask me to run one.

 

[wood20ks]

Yeah, that IS it...

So now let's do a little math, shall we?

When you get a guy in the NFL draft you pay him a few million a year maybe for three years!!!

When you get a guy via free-agency? You pay $20 million a year starting day ONE!!!

There is a REASON why over 2/3 of the teams in the NFL have chosen to draft and develop QBs!!!

I look at this in two ways...........
Atleast when signing a fa qb you usually know what youre getting..........you draft a rookie,who the hell knows what youre getting.

So I see what youre saying makes sense,but signing one does too.
and yes,Cousins most likely will better from day 1 when he signs with whatever team,compared to the rookie.